2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings

[wdleehi]

Kyle Lowry/Ramon Sessions
James Harden/F Garcia/M Brooks
Delfino/Derrick Williams/Garcia
STAT/D Williams/Splitter
Bogut/Tolliver/Splitter

Looks like a nice playoff run team.  Not sure there is enough defense at the SF position to win it all. 

Not a Delfino fan?

He is fine.  I think there needs to either be a stronger defender at that position (starting or off the bench) or a stronger team defense for you to win it all.  (or at least lose to my team)

[Donoghus]

Memphis Grizzlies

PG: Derrick Rose/ Brandon Knight
SG: Ray Allen/ Kyle Korver
SF: Tayshaun Prince/ Omri Casspi
PF: Kris Humphries/ Patrick Patterson/ Kenneth Faried
C:  Roy Hibbert/ Spencer Hawes

Coach: Doug Collins

How far away do you think Patrick Patterson is from overtaking Kris Humphries?

Better question might be how far away is Patrick Patterson OR Kenneth Faried from overtaking Kris Humphries?

Fair enough question.  Humphries still has a lot to prove this year coming off a very solid '10-11 campaign.  He'll be the incumbant but these other two will be right on his heels.  

[indeedproceed]

Kyle Lowry/Ramon Sessions
James Harden/F Garcia/M Brooks
Delfino/Derrick Williams/Garcia
STAT/D Williams/Splitter
Bogut/Tolliver/Splitter

Looks like a nice playoff run team.  Not sure there is enough defense at the SF position to win it all.  

Not a Delfino fan?

He is fine.  I think there needs to either be a stronger defender at that position (starting or off the bench) or a stronger team defense for you to win it all.  (or at least lose to my team)

That made me smile.

I'm not going to lose to your team. Don't you know your team lacks the elite star power to be a true contender?

Memphis Grizzlies

PG: Derrick Rose/ Brandon Knight
SG: Ray Allen/ Kyle Korver
SF: Tayshaun Prince/ Omri Casspi
PF: Kris Humphries/ Patrick Patterson/ Kenneth Faried
C:  Roy Hibbert/ Spencer Hawes

Coach: Doug Collins

How far away do you think Patrick Patterson is from overtaking Kris Humphries?

Better question might be how far away is Patrick Patterson OR Kenneth Faried from overtaking Kris Humphries?

Fair enough question.  Humphries still has a lot to prove this year coming off a very solid '10-11 campaign.  He'll be the incumbant but these other two will be right on his heels. 

Well, I didn't mean it so much as a knock on Humphries so much as a commendation on Patterson. Faried and Humphries actually share a lot of qualities, but Patterson is more skilled than either of them.

Kind of like how LaMarcus Aldridge used to be when he was a lot younger. He needed to toughen up and get his confidence. I see Patrick Patterson in much the same way. Maybe not as talented, but he's got a nice high ceiling.

[Kane3387]

Updated Utah Jazz Roster

Coach - Larry Brown

PF/C) Pau Gasol
SF) Paul Pierce
C) Brendan Haywood
SG) Raja Bell
PG) Andre Miller

PG/SG) Jamal Crawford
SG) Nick Young
SF) Richard Jefferson
PF/C) Demarcus Cousins

I think the sentiment behind Raja Bell was a good one, but at the same time, to put it in Sandlot terms, 'They say the Jet's lost a step or two'.

This year was his worst 3pt shooting season in 7 years or something, his defense took a step back, and he became kind of a liability because of it. Not that he was a trainwreck defensively, but just that his defensive play and 3pt shooting was no longer enough to justify a starting spot.

Check out his on the court/off the court #'s:

http://www.82games.com/1011/10UTA6.HTM#onoff

They scored more and held opponents to less with Bell off the court.

Disagree. Utah was a playoff team when Sloan was there. They were like the fifth seed. Sloan leaves and so does the Jazz toughness. Then you trade Williams for Harris and Bell sees a lot of his touches and good looks go out the window. Harris doesn't distribute like D will did. Jefferson is as likely to pass the ball out of the post as he is to hit a three pointer.

Raja Bell needs to be on a team that he can compliment and vice versa. That Jazz team was not it at all. They were a young team trying to get their own shots and stats. They clearly didn't care about winning as they were one of the worst teams in the NBA post trade deadline.

Shooters don't just stop learning how to shoot. Especially set shooters. Also he had Jefferson and Milsap playing behind him in the real Utah. They don't really protect the rim. Haywood and Gasol will have his back much more on the fake Utah.

Over 70% of the minutes he played were over and done with before the Deron Williams trade.

Its not his teammates that are dictating his value, its his quick feet and his legs. If he doesn't have them, he loses his defense and his shooting, and it looks like they're on their last legs, joke intended.

This is exactly the same criticism Shawn Marion received. Also how much of that was post Sloan?

I think expectations are a little out of whack here. Bell is expected to play a role. Guard the 2guard as part of the team defense and spread the floor. I am not asking this guy to be Tony Allen, but rather a kind of Bruce Bowen.

Bell is more then capable at playing this role. He can use his intelligence and teammates to play the role much like Bowen did.

Man to man defense is overrated honestly into today's NBA, especially on the perimeter. Too many teams utilize zone and with no hand checks I think it is very overvalued here, but that's me. No one on Dallas was a great man defender. They won with a zone, team d, and execution on offense. That's what I am drafting players to do.

[indeedproceed]

Over 70% of the minutes he played were over and done with before the Deron Williams trade.

Its not his teammates that are dictating his value, its his quick feet and his legs. If he doesn't have them, he loses his defense and his shooting, and it looks like they're on their last legs, joke intended.

This is exactly the same criticism Shawn Marion received. Also how much of that was post Sloan?

I think expectations are a little out of whack here. Bell is expected to play a role. Guard the 2guard as part of the team defense and spread the floor. I am not asking this guy to be Tony Allen, but rather a kind of Bruce Bowen.

Bell is more then capable at playing this role. He can use his intelligence and teammates to play the role much like Bowen did.

Man to man defense is overrated honestly into today's NBA, especially on the perimeter. Too many teams utilize zone and with no hand checks I think it is very overvalued here, but that's me. No one on Dallas was a great man defender. They won with a zone, team d, and execution on offense. That's what I am drafting players to do.

Bruce Bowen his last year in the league was fading extremely fast. He was no longer an elite stopper on the wing, and San An knew it, so they only played him 20 mins a game and took him out of the starting lineup from a role he'd had for the previous 7 years.

Bell's defense is slipping, and it should slip further. THat's all I'm saying.

As far as the Shawn Marion thing, I cannot explain how he came alive after Butler went down, and especially in the Finals. I seriously can't. Doesn't make any freakin sense if you saw him in Miami and Toronto.

[jgod213]

IP, i reeeally like your starting 5 and i think Delfino is the right guy to start at the 3 as he is a knock down shooter.

HOWEVER

One question: your reserves seem a bit iffy, which is understandable considering how much you've invested in your starting 5.  Are Williams/Splitter really ready to be the super subs on a championship caliber squad? Just seems like you have a few guys who have been bitten by the injury bug in the past and may not have the depth at the 4/5.

[The Walker Wiggle]

That's 860 words of analysis, and I expect a dozen TP's, as well as analysis in kind. Unless all that's out there are leading questions.

Ok, this is THE Walker Wiggle's make good. Offer stands to the rest of my colleagues.

Kyle Lowry/Ramon Sessions
James Harden/F Garcia/M Brooks
Delfino/Derrick Williams/Garcia
STAT/D Williams/Splitter
Bogut/Tolliver/Splitter

Trailblazers Pros: What a great pairing in the front court. Stoudemire is a prodigious scorer from the high post. Bogut is a one of the league’s better low post threats. And although it shouldn’t be understated how awful a defender STAT is, here he has one of the best defensive centers in the league working to cover up his mistakes. In fact, Portland has surround Amar’e with a near pitch-perfect supporting cast. He’s never had so much help defensively. The backcourt will even help rebound the ball. While a deep frontcourt should limit Stoudemire’s minutes at center and overall. Recall that he was mounting an MVP campaign early in 2010-11, before D’Antoni ran him into the ground. (Tender knees.)

Extra credit:  You have to love the Trailblazers aggressiveness. This is a team that will get to the line. Stoudemire ranked 9th in the league last season with 7.7 free throw attempts, Harden finished 42nd, Lowry 80th.

Embarrassment of riches at the wings after today’s two rounds. (Twenty-four team league!) I’m a fan of both Garcia and Marshon Brooks and am only disappointed that there won’t be enough minutes to go around.

After that I’m tempted to lean on terms like flinty and hard-nosed.

Trailblazers Cons: A lack of shooting is going to make things harder for the team’s only go to scorer. Lowry in his break-out year hit a career best 37.6% from behind the arc. That still only dragged him up to an average efficiency mark and I’m expecting some regression to the mean. Harden similarly posted average shooting marks, after improving in nearly every regard on his rookie campaign. While Delfino is a passable three point threat, but otherwise a sub-40% shooter who takes too many shots. And as my friends with Knicks season tickets will tell you, lovely jumper or no, you don’t want a frustrated STAT settling for long twos – which he will.

So I may be in the minority in my willingness to trust rookies, but I’d prefer to see Williams inserted back in to the starting line up. I know Delfino plays winning basketball. But so do Lowry and Harden. Portland needs a more credible second option to prevent teams from crowding the paint.

Um, I still owe you another 500 words??

[Kane3387]

Over 70% of the minutes he played were over and done with before the Deron Williams trade.

Its not his teammates that are dictating his value, its his quick feet and his legs. If he doesn't have them, he loses his defense and his shooting, and it looks like they're on their last legs, joke intended.

This is exactly the same criticism Shawn Marion received. Also how much of that was post Sloan?

I think expectations are a little out of whack here. Bell is expected to play a role. Guard the 2guard as part of the team defense and spread the floor. I am not asking this guy to be Tony Allen, but rather a kind of Bruce Bowen.

Bell is more then capable at playing this role. He can use his intelligence and teammates to play the role much like Bowen did.

Man to man defense is overrated honestly into today's NBA, especially on the perimeter. Too many teams utilize zone and with no hand checks I think it is very overvalued here, but that's me. No one on Dallas was a great man defender. They won with a zone, team d, and execution on offense. That's what I am drafting players to do.

Bruce Bowen his last year in the league was fading extremely fast. He was no longer an elite stopper on the wing, and San An knew it, so they only played him 20 mins a game and took him out of the starting lineup from a role he'd had for the previous 7 years.

Bell's defense is slipping, and it should slip further. THat's all I'm saying.

As far as the Shawn Marion thing, I cannot explain how he came alive after Butler went down, and especially in the Finals. I seriously can't. Doesn't make any freakin sense if you saw him in Miami and Toronto.

Lol Marion played on two BAD lottery teams and honestly he didn't give a (BEEP). It's hard for veterans to go 100% hard when they have nothing to play for, especially when they have been key parts on contenders like Bell and Marion were in Phoenix. Bowen was like 38 in his last year right? Bell is 34. He has enough left in the tank IMO.

[The Walker Wiggle]

Memphis Grizzlies

PG: Derrick Rose/ Brandon Knight
SG: Ray Allen/ Kyle Korver
SF: Tayshaun Prince/ Omri Casspi
PF: Kris Humphries/ Patrick Patterson/ Kenneth Faried
C:  Roy Hibbert/ Spencer Hawes

Coach: Doug Collins

How far away do you think Patrick Patterson is from overtaking Kris Humphries?

Better question might be how far away is Patrick Patterson OR Kenneth Faried from overtaking Kris Humphries?

Fair enough question.  Humphries still has a lot to prove this year coming off a very solid '10-11 campaign.  He'll be the incumbant but these other two will be right on his heels.  

Humphries success is a mirage. I can give you two paragraphs of criticism and some first-hand Nets fan accounts if needed. Or if we get matched up in the playoffs... (Yes, I know some Nets fans, yes, they're and endangered species and yes, they deserve our sympathy.) I'd prefer to see either Faried or Patterson starting at the 4. Love one, like the other a lot.

[indeedproceed]

IP, i reeeally like your starting 5 and i think Delfino is the right guy to start at the 3 as he is a knock down shooter.

HOWEVER

One question: your reserves seem a bit iffy, which is understandable considering how much you've invested in your starting 5.  Are Williams/Splitter really ready to be the super subs on a championship caliber squad? Just seems like you have a few guys who have been bitten by the injury bug in the past and may not have the depth at the 4/5.

Well, the short answer is yes, I do think they are.

Splitter is not alone down there. He's right there with Anthony Tolliver, who is a proven and valuable commodity and defender. On top of that, when Splitter did play last season he was pretty decent (abet in short stints). He only played around 12 minutes per game in the 60 games he entered, but in the 6 games he was asked to start in (and played 20+ minutes) he kept up that production.

I'm not asking much more out of him than you'd get from a more mobile Zaza Pachulia, and I think he can handle that.

Derrick Williams, I have no reservations over in his role. I could look into trading him for a more proven commodity, and that might get me more votes in the playoffs or something, but this guy is All-Star level talent. He's a born scorer, and was the most efficient scorer in college, both as a jumpshooter and in the paint. He's known for NOT settling for easy shots and working within the offense. He's known for being teachable, and a dedicated student of the game. He's faster than the Power Forwards and WAY stronger than the Small Forwards, and he'll be a wrecking ball off the bench for my squad. Plus, in a year or two when he further molds his body to drop more fat and add more muscle, I could have another star on my already talented team.

This year though, I'm happy asking Williams to do what he's already shown he can do, and that's score a lot, rebound some, and defend as best he can.

[Donoghus]

Memphis Grizzlies

PG: Derrick Rose/ Brandon Knight
SG: Ray Allen/ Kyle Korver
SF: Tayshaun Prince/ Omri Casspi
PF: Kris Humphries/ Patrick Patterson/ Kenneth Faried
C:  Roy Hibbert/ Spencer Hawes

Coach: Doug Collins

How far away do you think Patrick Patterson is from overtaking Kris Humphries?

Better question might be how far away is Patrick Patterson OR Kenneth Faried from overtaking Kris Humphries?

Fair enough question.  Humphries still has a lot to prove this year coming off a very solid '10-11 campaign.  He'll be the incumbant but these other two will be right on his heels.  

Humphries success is a mirage. I can give you two paragraphs of criticism and some first-hand Nets fan accounts if needed. Or if we get matched up in the playoffs... (Yes, I know some Nets fans, yes, they're and endangered species and yes, they deserve our sympathy.) I'd prefer to see either Faried or Patterson starting at the 4. Love one, like the other a lot.

Let's see it, then.

[Fafnir]

there with Anthony Tolliver, who is a proven and valuable commodity and defender.

There are two Anthony Tollivers?

I love the guy, very nice, funny, and went to college in my home town, and was super cool in a charity game where I met him. But he's not a proven commodity as a defender.

He's been a rotation big for two of the worst defenses in the NBA, who have also been two of the worse teams in the NBA. He has value becuase he's quick and can shoot. But he's a poor rebounder and not a good defender at the NBA level.

[nickagneta]

While waiting for a plane thought I would check in and see how te Sacramento Kings a.k.a. Dinoboxerbots were doing:

Chauncey Billups/Jarrett Jack
Wesley Matthews/Gary Neal
LeBron James/Chris Singleton
Paul Millsap/Boris Diaw
Tyson Chandler/Zaza Pachulia/Nazr Mohammed

Yeah, I'm liking how this team is rounding into shape.

[indeedproceed]

there with Anthony Tolliver, who is a proven and valuable commodity and defender.

There are two Anthony Tollivers?

I love the guy, very nice, funny, and went to college in my home town, and was super cool in a charity game where I met him. But he's not a proven commodity as a defender.

He's been a rotation big for two of the worst defenses in the NBA, who have also been two of the worse teams in the NBA. He has value becuase he's quick and can shoot. But he's a poor rebounder and not a good defender at the NBA level.

You're telling me that Anthony Tolliver only lies in being quick and able to shoot? That he can't defend at the NBA level?

His ON/Off the court #'s say differently, Experts say differently, his fans say differently...

AND ROY HOBBS SAYS DIFFERENTLY!

Both Warriors and Wolves fans have constantly applauded his defense on various forums, and from the times I've seen him play, he seems to play defense intelligently and with a lot of effort.

I'm with you Faf, I used to hate on Tolliver's talents..but I was wrong. Come to the light side, Faf..the feel-good side.

[KCattheStripe]

Boston Celtics:

PG: Holiday/Stuckey
SG: Gordon/Henderson
SF: Deng/ Jones/Vesley
PF: Duncan/ Gibson / Arthur
C: Monroe

Obviously Duncan will be playing some center also.