Would you make this trade? Rondo for Westbrook

[BballTim]

If you substitute Rondo in for Westbrook, that Thunder team probably doesn't make it out of the first round. Westbrook is definitely a better overall basketball talent, and he is the better athlete.

  Westbrook averaged 7-8 more points a game in Thunder losses than he did in Thunder wins. He was probably around 19-20 in the wins, which is 2-3 points a game more than Rondo was putting up before he was injured. In games where he took more than 20 shots the Thunder were 2-4, as opposed to 7-0 when he takes 20 or less. Yesterday he had a Rondo-like stat line and the Thunder dismantled the Grizzlies. Rondo could easily make them a better offensive team.

[BballTim]

If you substitute Rondo in for Westbrook, that Thunder team probably doesn't make it out of the first round. Westbrook is definitely a better overall basketball talent, and he is the better athlete.

  Westbrook averaged 7-8 more points a game in Thunder losses than he did in Thunder wins. He was probably around 19-20 in the wins, which is 2-3 points a game more than Rondo was putting up before he was injured. In games where he took more than 20 shots the Thunder were 2-4, as opposed to 7-0 when he takes 20 or less. Yesterday he had a Rondo-like stat line and the Thunder dismantled the Grizzlies. Rondo could easily make them a better offensive team.

  Just a quick update on this courtesy nba.com statcube, since the second round is over for both players.

  The Thunder are a +57 with Westbrook playing, and a -5 with him on the bench. The Celts were, oddly enough, the same +57 with Rondo playing, but they were -45 with Rondo on the bench. Side note, in the Miami series, Rondo played 97 minutes before his elbow injury. We were a +15 in that time. He was on the bench for 27 minutes up to that point, and we were a -25 in those minutes.

  Statcube highlights areas that are more than 10% different with a player in a game or on the bench:

  With Westbrook playing the team takes and makes fewer 3 point shots at a lower percentage, takes and makes more free throws, gets more offensive and overall rebounds, gets fewer assists and fewer steals but more blocks.

  With Rondo playing the Celts have a better overall fg%, make more threes on fewer shots (percentage goes from 23% to 54% with Rondo playing), take more free throws, get more offensive, defensive and overall rebounds, more assists, steals and blocks.

[OsirusCeltics]

Why bother? Avery Bradley will be a Westbrook clone in a few years anyway.

Yeah, I was thinking that
Maybe their grooming Avery to eventually take over the starting point guard position

Then maybe ship Rondo for a center

[kozlodoev]

Why bother? Avery Bradley will be a Westbrook clone in a few years anyway.

Yeah, I was thinking that
Maybe their grooming Avery to eventually take over the starting point guard position

Then maybe ship Rondo for a center

Yes, yes. And Gerald Green is the second coming of Paul Pierce.

[BballTim]

Why bother? Avery Bradley will be a Westbrook clone in a few years anyway.

Yeah, I was thinking that
Maybe their grooming Avery to eventually take over the starting point guard position

Then maybe ship Rondo for a center

Yes, yes. And Gerald Green is the second coming of Paul Pierce.

  Haha.

[kozlodoev]

Why bother? Avery Bradley will be a Westbrook clone in a few years anyway.

Yeah, I was thinking that
Maybe their grooming Avery to eventually take over the starting point guard position

Then maybe ship Rondo for a center

Yes, yes. And Gerald Green is the second coming of Paul Pierce.

  Haha.

I'm sorry, but from what I've seen at this point it's more likely that Bradley will end up being more similar to Green than to Westbrook.

[BballTim]

Why bother? Avery Bradley will be a Westbrook clone in a few years anyway.

Yeah, I was thinking that
Maybe their grooming Avery to eventually take over the starting point guard position

Then maybe ship Rondo for a center

Yes, yes. And Gerald Green is the second coming of Paul Pierce.

  Haha.

I'm sorry, but from what I've seen at this point it's more likely that Bradley will end up being more similar to Green than to Westbrook.

  No, I'm sorry. I don't necessarily disagree with your post, just found it amusing.

[OsirusCeltics]

Why bother? Avery Bradley will be a Westbrook clone in a few years anyway.

Yeah, I was thinking that
Maybe their grooming Avery to eventually take over the starting point guard position

Then maybe ship Rondo for a center

Yes, yes. And Gerald Green is the second coming of Paul Pierce.

I give new guys until their sophomore year to show me something. If they still don't play well, then I give up on them. Its too early to make a prediction of how Avery's career would turn out

[Army_of_One_Nation]

This issue is very difficult to assess. When Rondo is on top of his game, he is nearly unstoppable at both ends of the court.

[kozlodoev]

Why bother? Avery Bradley will be a Westbrook clone in a few years anyway.

Yeah, I was thinking that
Maybe their grooming Avery to eventually take over the starting point guard position

Then maybe ship Rondo for a center

Yes, yes. And Gerald Green is the second coming of Paul Pierce.

I give new guys until their sophomore year to show me something. If they still don't play well, then I give up on them. Its too early to make a prediction of how Avery's career would turn out

I agree.

However, my observation is that guys who look as lost as Bradley was in his first season rarely pan out to be NBA caliber players.

In Bradley's case, especially, I would have expected him to be able to earn minutes with his defense on a team that's loaded with scoring talent. It didn't happen, and it's a red flag in my book.

He reminds me of JR Giddens in some ways: all the tools are there, but he can't put them together in a package that works. I hope he proves me wrong this season. Who knows.

[CelticG1]

The only PG's I would want instead of Rondo are CP3, DWill, or Rose.

In that order.

I may be willing to part with Rondo for an inferior PG like Westbrook if we got more pieces that can help us.

I would argue that i would take these 3 before westbrook no doubt, but i disagree that overall westbrook is that inferior to rondo, if at all. 22 pts,8 assists, and 5 boards a game seems pretty complete to me!

Overall?

Rondo is a better passer, rebounder, defender, and leader.

Westbrook is a better shooter.


If you think jumpshooting is that much more important than any other facet of the game, Westbrook is you man.

Rondo is probably the worst shooting PG in the league

Is Westbrook the worst at anything for a PG? He's not Steve Nash on defense and he's actually  a good rebounder and an above average defender.

  Rondo's fg% on his jump shots is close to average. How sure are you that nobody's worse than him?

Close to average for a PG or in general? I don't know that he is the worst but he has to be pretty close. He is an absolutely horrible jumpshooter no matter how you slice it and hasn't improved or at least not enough. A guy like Rose supposedly was a bad shooter his rookie year than a year later he can hit from anywhere on the floor.

People always say it's a confidence issue with Rondo. It's been 5 years I think he is just a terrrible terrible shooter.

Average shooter meaning he shoots 41% from 16-23 FT, while the league average is 39%.

Point guards who shoot worse than Rondo from that range (min. 30 minutes a game): Parker, Lowry, Wall, Tyreke Evans, Kidd, Harris, Billups, Westbrook, Jennings, Rose, I could go on...

http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PG&yr=2011&gp=0&mins=30

Let's not pretend that Rondo bricks every jumper he's ever attempted, he's taken and made plenty of them. He just has to get more consistent at it game to game. He had one really bad stretch in February/March this year where he wasn't making many of his jumpers, but for much of the season he was shooting pretty well.

Ok he is not the worst from 16-23 feet. But he is the second worst 3 point shooter among these guys and 8th worst from 10-15 feet. Also I'm sure we don't have to look it up but Rondo is definitely the worst free throw shooter.

He is a terrible shooter. Way below average shooter. We've been talking about consistency with Rondo for the past 5 years and not just with shooting, with everything.

With this team in the beginning Rondo didn't need to make many shots he didn't need to be as much a scorer or shooter. This team is getting older now and the big 3 are playing less and less minutes. It's tough to have a guy out there who is unwilling (and frankly unable) to take over more of the offensive load.

I would love for Rondo to be more consistent and be able to hit a jumper from anywhere consistently but it's not certainly not something I would bet on

[tyrone biggums]

Why bother? Avery Bradley will be a Westbrook clone in a few years anyway.

Yeah, I was thinking that
Maybe their grooming Avery to eventually take over the starting point guard position

Then maybe ship Rondo for a center

Yes, yes. And Gerald Green is the second coming of Paul Pierce.

  Haha.

Hey, don't laugh! There's still time for this to happen. G-Money could become the Paul Pierce of the Saudi Arabian Basketball League

[snively]

Neither team does the trade.  OKC needs scoring from their PG with non-scorers like Ibaka, Aldrich and Perkins likely eating up most of their big men minutes going forward; they want Westbrook to clean up his game, not to exchange him for a less potent scorer. 

Boston doesn't do it because Rondo's currently the better player (makes far fewer mistakes while nearly matching overall productivity) and locked up on a sweetheart deal whereas Westbrook will probably get the max with his high scoring average.     

[BballTim]

The only PG's I would want instead of Rondo are CP3, DWill, or Rose.

In that order.

I may be willing to part with Rondo for an inferior PG like Westbrook if we got more pieces that can help us.

I would argue that i would take these 3 before westbrook no doubt, but i disagree that overall westbrook is that inferior to rondo, if at all. 22 pts,8 assists, and 5 boards a game seems pretty complete to me!

Overall?

Rondo is a better passer, rebounder, defender, and leader.

Westbrook is a better shooter.


If you think jumpshooting is that much more important than any other facet of the game, Westbrook is you man.

Rondo is probably the worst shooting PG in the league

Is Westbrook the worst at anything for a PG? He's not Steve Nash on defense and he's actually  a good rebounder and an above average defender.

  Rondo's fg% on his jump shots is close to average. How sure are you that nobody's worse than him?

Close to average for a PG or in general? I don't know that he is the worst but he has to be pretty close. He is an absolutely horrible jumpshooter no matter how you slice it and hasn't improved or at least not enough. A guy like Rose supposedly was a bad shooter his rookie year than a year later he can hit from anywhere on the floor.

People always say it's a confidence issue with Rondo. It's been 5 years I think he is just a terrrible terrible shooter.

Average shooter meaning he shoots 41% from 16-23 FT, while the league average is 39%.

Point guards who shoot worse than Rondo from that range (min. 30 minutes a game): Parker, Lowry, Wall, Tyreke Evans, Kidd, Harris, Billups, Westbrook, Jennings, Rose, I could go on...

http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PG&yr=2011&gp=0&mins=30

Let's not pretend that Rondo bricks every jumper he's ever attempted, he's taken and made plenty of them. He just has to get more consistent at it game to game. He had one really bad stretch in February/March this year where he wasn't making many of his jumpers, but for much of the season he was shooting pretty well.

Ok he is not the worst from 16-23 feet. But he is the second worst 3 point shooter among these guys and 8th worst from 10-15 feet. Also I'm sure we don't have to look it up but Rondo is definitely the worst free throw shooter.

He is a terrible shooter. Way below average shooter. We've been talking about consistency with Rondo for the past 5 years and not just with shooting, with everything.

  The main reason that he's so bad at threes is that he takes so few of them that his totals are mainly last second heaves. And a lot of the people that have been talking about consistency with Rondo for the past 5 years and not just with shooting, with everything are probably the same people who claim that he's the worst shooter without having any idea whether it's true or not.

[OsirusCeltics]

Why bother? Avery Bradley will be a Westbrook clone in a few years anyway.

Yeah, I was thinking that
Maybe their grooming Avery to eventually take over the starting point guard position

Then maybe ship Rondo for a center

Yes, yes. And Gerald Green is the second coming of Paul Pierce.

I give new guys until their sophomore year to show me something. If they still don't play well, then I give up on them. Its too early to make a prediction of how Avery's career would turn out

I agree.

However, my observation is that guys who look as lost as Bradley was in his first season rarely pan out to be NBA caliber players.

In Bradley's case, especially, I would have expected him to be able to earn minutes with his defense on a team that's loaded with scoring talent. It didn't happen, and it's a red flag in my book.

He reminds me of JR Giddens in some ways: all the tools are there, but he can't put them together in a package that works. I hope he proves me wrong this season. Who knows.

Yeah, totally agree