Rondo is Average

[PLamb]

I am definately a Rhondo 'worshipper'. He is what? 22 or 23?
Totally, awesomely, incredibly, unbelievably amazing is what he is. I truly don't see the point of this thread.

I lot of us don't

[More Banners]

Okay...one way to discuss this is to break down his skills and weaknesses.  Of course, we're really all homers that place a high value on our own guys (keepin' it real here-we all do it).

Another way is to rank PG's and see if Rondo is the top-5 that he and DA thought he was when extending him last year, or at least top-10 to be above average.  Of course, just looking at assist numbers is a very limited way to rate a player, so we should look at other things, too, right?

(side note:  convenient that Rondo got top-5 PG money right before so many extremely talented young PG's emerged this year, eh?).

Some that should probably get top-10 consideration are:

Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Chauncey Billups
Jason Kidd
Steve Nash
Russell Westabrook (a beast)
Darren Collison
Andre Miller
Jameer Nelson (once again healthy, he's as good as any)
Tony Parker
Derrick Rose
Stephen Curry
Baron Davis
Aaron Brooks
And, of course, Rondo.

No question Rondo isn't the best.  Is he top-5?  Maybe, but I really don't think so.  Top-10?  I'm really not so sure, let's say it's debatable.  There are some players that are "different" but not necessarily "better" or "worse" that I'd just as well take, meaning they're just as effective.

He's a lock for top-15, though.  I guess that makes him above average?

[explanation:  I don't give THAT much credit for his assist numbers since it's come at the expense of ball movement, IMHO]

[Big_Matt34]

Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Chauncey Billups
Jason Kidd
Steve Nash
Russell Westabrook (a beast)
Darren Collison
Andre Miller
Jameer Nelson (once again healthy, he's as good as any)
Tony Parker
Derrick Rose
Stephen Curry
Baron Davis
Aaron Brooks

Rondo is definately better than Collison, Baron, Brooks, Curry, Andre Miller, Jameer Nelson, and Kidd at this point. Id put him on the same level as Rose, Westbrook, and Tony Parker. So anywhere between the 5th-9th best pg in the league sounds about right. Id personally have him 5th behind Paul/Williams/Nash/Chauncey.

Rondo is a very good, but not yet great player. Will he get to great? We will find out but i dont see why not. But average? Far from it.

[fanofgreen]

Rondo is not better than Andre Miller or Jason Kidd right now. Both of those guys can control a game without dribbling the air out of the ball.
Rondo might get there eventually, but right now, he's not better than JKidd, and Andre.

[PLamb]

Okay...one way to discuss this is to break down his skills and weaknesses.  Of course, we're really all homers that place a high value on our own guys (keepin' it real here-we all do it).

Another way is to rank PG's and see if Rondo is the top-5 that he and DA thought he was when extending him last year, or at least top-10 to be above average.  Of course, just looking at assist numbers is a very limited way to rate a player, so we should look at other things, too, right?

(side note:  convenient that Rondo got top-5 PG money right before so many extremely talented young PG's emerged this year, eh?).

Some that should probably get top-10 consideration are:

Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Chauncey Billups
Jason Kidd
Steve Nash
Russell Westabrook (a beast)
Darren Collison
Andre Miller
Jameer Nelson (once again healthy, he's as good as any)
Tony Parker
Derrick Rose
Stephen Curry
Baron Davis
Aaron Brooks
And, of course, Rondo.

No question Rondo isn't the best.  Is he top-5?  Maybe, but I really don't think so.  Top-10?  I'm really not so sure, let's say it's debatable.  There are some players that are "different" but not necessarily "better" or "worse" that I'd just as well take, meaning they're just as effective.

He's a lock for top-15, though.  I guess that makes him above average?

[explanation:  I don't give THAT much credit for his assist numbers since it's come at the expense of ball movement, IMHO]

He's not top 10 PG?

He's third in the NBA in assists per game
He's first in the NBA in steals per game
He's fifth in the NBA in PER amongst PGs
He's 4th in the NBA in assist percentage
He's fifth amongst PGs in rebounding rate
He's 4th amongst PGs in Estimated Wins Added
He's 7th in the league in assist to turnover ratio
He's 4th in the league in assist per minutes
He's 1st in the league in FG% amongst ALL guards
He's 4th in the league in 2 pt FG% amongst ALL guards
He's sixth amongst PGs in eFG%
He is amongst a group of 4 current starting PGs with a world Championship ring
He's 24 years old


And given all that you think he's not in the top 10?

I say Paul, Nash, Williams and Kidd are ahead of him

Parker and Billups can both be said to have a very good argument to be fifth in the league along with Rondo but based on this year, I say Rondo is probably fifth, 6th the absolute lowest

[xmuscularghandix]

Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Chauncey Billups
Jason Kidd
Steve Nash
Russell Westabrook (a beast)
Darren Collison
Andre Miller
Jameer Nelson (once again healthy, he's as good as any)
Tony Parker
Derrick Rose
Stephen Curry
Baron Davis
Aaron Brooks

Rondo is definately better than Collison, Brooks, Curry, Andre Miller, Jameer Nelson, and Kidd at this point. Id put him on the same level as Baron Davis, Rose, Westbrook, and Tony Parker. So anywhere between the 5th-10th best pg in the league sounds about right.

Rondo is a very good, but not yet great player. Will he get to great? We will find out but i dont see why not.

Rondo has a skill set that is very different from every PG in the league. He is an awesome defensive guard, he is a GREAT rebounding guard, he can score when asked, and he could dominate a game on single-digit shots.

Rose is still inconsistent and he is more of a scorer.

Boon Dizzle isn't what he once was and it's clear that he's lost interest in the game.

Russell Westbrook is a scorer (a low percentage one at that), but he is a good player.


My top 5 PG's...

Williams, Paul, Rondo, Nash, Billups

top 10...

Parker, Kidd, Baron, Miller, Rose

[xmuscularghandix]

Rondo is not better than Andre Miller or Jason Kidd right now. Both of those guys can control a game without dribbling the air out of the ball.
Rondo might get there eventually, but right now, he's not better than JKidd, and Andre.

They can "control" the game without dribbling because both of their team's offense works through superstar players IE Dirk and BRoy.

[cdif911]

if Rondo's average....[fill in sarcastic comment]

[ManUp]

How can you honestly say he does nothing exceptional.

Below Average:
Shooting

Average:
On ball defense (50% of the time)

Exeptional:
Everything else you could ask a PG to do.

I mostly agree, although I would add game management as average (at best).  He does not control the pace of the game nearly as much as he should.

In Rondo's defense sometimes what could appear to be poor pace management on Rondo's part could be bad pace acceptance by the other players on the court

Too often in fast break circumstances and opportunities it is Rondo and Rondo alone that pushes the pace and then needs to pull back due to the general lack of enthusiasm from the others on the court for pushing that pace

I would contend that much of Rondo's lack of proper game pace is due to the others on the floor that want to just walk it up the floor in a slow half court pace manner

Yes, I'm talking about KG and Pierce and Perk and Rasheed

Think about it, how many times do the Celtics attempt to fastbreak a game but then has to pull back because the defense has more people hustling up the floor than the Celtics do

Agree. It should not be overlooked that he's playing on a team that works to his weaknesses. Paul, KG, Perk and Sheed are not great fits for Rondo's growth.

Rondo recently pointed out how much he likes playing with Quis for a reason -- he, like Ray, moves without the ball.

I totally agree with this.

Not to mention, how much Pierce(crouched dribbling at the 3pt line that kills 5-7 seconds) and Perk(3-4 second pause before starting his methodical post moves) slow down the game.

[Kiorrik]

He's not top 10 PG?

He's third in the NBA in assists per game
He's first in the NBA in steals per game
He's fifth in the NBA in PER amongst PGs
He's 4th in the NBA in assist percentage
He's fifth amongst PGs in rebounding rate
He's 4th amongst PGs in Estimated Wins Added
He's 7th in the league in assist to turnover ratio
He's 4th in the league in assist per minutes
He's 1st in the league in FG% amongst ALL guards
He's 4th in the league in 2 pt FG% amongst ALL guards
He's sixth amongst PGs in eFG%
He is amongst a group of 4 current starting PGs with a world Championship ring
He's 24 years old


And given all that you think he's not in the top 10?

I say Paul, Nash, Williams and Kidd are ahead of him

Parker and Billups can both be said to have a very good argument to be fifth in the league along with Rondo but based on this year, I say Rondo is probably fifth, 6th the absolute lowest

TP, good post.

[wdleehi]

Okay...one way to discuss this is to break down his skills and weaknesses.  Of course, we're really all homers that place a high value on our own guys (keepin' it real here-we all do it).

Another way is to rank PG's and see if Rondo is the top-5 that he and DA thought he was when extending him last year, or at least top-10 to be above average.  Of course, just looking at assist numbers is a very limited way to rate a player, so we should look at other things, too, right?

(side note:  convenient that Rondo got top-5 PG money right before so many extremely talented young PG's emerged this year, eh?).

Some that should probably get top-10 consideration are:

Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Chauncey Billups
Jason Kidd
Steve Nash
Russell Westabrook (a beast)
Darren Collison
Andre Miller
Jameer Nelson (once again healthy, he's as good as any)
Tony Parker
Derrick Rose
Stephen Curry
Baron Davis
Aaron Brooks
And, of course, Rondo.

No question Rondo isn't the best.  Is he top-5?  Maybe, but I really don't think so.  Top-10?  I'm really not so sure, let's say it's debatable.  There are some players that are "different" but not necessarily "better" or "worse" that I'd just as well take, meaning they're just as effective.

He's a lock for top-15, though.  I guess that makes him above average?

[explanation:  I don't give THAT much credit for his assist numbers since it's come at the expense of ball movement, IMHO]

He's not top 10 PG?

He's third in the NBA in assists per game
He's first in the NBA in steals per game
He's fifth in the NBA in PER amongst PGs
He's 4th in the NBA in assist percentage
He's fifth amongst PGs in rebounding rate
He's 4th amongst PGs in Estimated Wins Added
He's 7th in the league in assist to turnover ratio
He's 4th in the league in assist per minutes
He's 1st in the league in FG% amongst ALL guards
He's 4th in the league in 2 pt FG% amongst ALL guards
He's sixth amongst PGs in eFG%
He is amongst a group of 4 current starting PGs with a world Championship ring
He's 24 years old


And given all that you think he's not in the top 10?

I say Paul, Nash, Williams and Kidd are ahead of him

Parker and Billups can both be said to have a very good argument to be fifth in the league along with Rondo but based on this year, I say Rondo is probably fifth, 6th the absolute lowest

I would say those 7 are still ahead of Rondo at his point.  (but not far ahead)


I would say he leads next group of three (Rondo, Nelson and Rose)

[BballTim]

Okay...one way to discuss this is to break down his skills and weaknesses.  Of course, we're really all homers that place a high value on our own guys (keepin' it real here-we all do it).

Another way is to rank PG's and see if Rondo is the top-5 that he and DA thought he was when extending him last year, or at least top-10 to be above average.  Of course, just looking at assist numbers is a very limited way to rate a player, so we should look at other things, too, right?

(side note:  convenient that Rondo got top-5 PG money right before so many extremely talented young PG's emerged this year, eh?).

Some that should probably get top-10 consideration are:

Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Chauncey Billups
Jason Kidd
Steve Nash
Russell Westabrook (a beast)
Darren Collison
Andre Miller
Jameer Nelson (once again healthy, he's as good as any)
Tony Parker
Derrick Rose
Stephen Curry
Baron Davis
Aaron Brooks
And, of course, Rondo.

No question Rondo isn't the best.  Is he top-5?  Maybe, but I really don't think so.  Top-10?  I'm really not so sure, let's say it's debatable.  There are some players that are "different" but not necessarily "better" or "worse" that I'd just as well take, meaning they're just as effective.

He's a lock for top-15, though.  I guess that makes him above average?

[explanation:  I don't give THAT much credit for his assist numbers since it's come at the expense of ball movement, IMHO]

He's not top 10 PG?

He's third in the NBA in assists per game
He's first in the NBA in steals per game
He's fifth in the NBA in PER amongst PGs
He's 4th in the NBA in assist percentage
He's fifth amongst PGs in rebounding rate
He's 4th amongst PGs in Estimated Wins Added
He's 7th in the league in assist to turnover ratio
He's 4th in the league in assist per minutes
He's 1st in the league in FG% amongst ALL guards
He's 4th in the league in 2 pt FG% amongst ALL guards
He's sixth amongst PGs in eFG%
He is amongst a group of 4 current starting PGs with a world Championship ring
He's 24 years old


And given all that you think he's not in the top 10?

I say Paul, Nash, Williams and Kidd are ahead of him

Parker and Billups can both be said to have a very good argument to be fifth in the league along with Rondo but based on this year, I say Rondo is probably fifth, 6th the absolute lowest

I would say those 7 are still ahead of Rondo at his point.  (but not far ahead)


I would say he leads next group of three (Rondo, Nelson and Rose)

  Parker isn't better than Rondo. I'd put him top 5 with Paul, Nash, Billups and Williams. I'd also point out that he's much better than Nash or Billups were at his age.

[wdleehi]

Okay...one way to discuss this is to break down his skills and weaknesses.  Of course, we're really all homers that place a high value on our own guys (keepin' it real here-we all do it).

Another way is to rank PG's and see if Rondo is the top-5 that he and DA thought he was when extending him last year, or at least top-10 to be above average.  Of course, just looking at assist numbers is a very limited way to rate a player, so we should look at other things, too, right?

(side note:  convenient that Rondo got top-5 PG money right before so many extremely talented young PG's emerged this year, eh?).

Some that should probably get top-10 consideration are:

Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Chauncey Billups
Jason Kidd
Steve Nash
Russell Westabrook (a beast)
Darren Collison
Andre Miller
Jameer Nelson (once again healthy, he's as good as any)
Tony Parker
Derrick Rose
Stephen Curry
Baron Davis
Aaron Brooks
And, of course, Rondo.

No question Rondo isn't the best.  Is he top-5?  Maybe, but I really don't think so.  Top-10?  I'm really not so sure, let's say it's debatable.  There are some players that are "different" but not necessarily "better" or "worse" that I'd just as well take, meaning they're just as effective.

He's a lock for top-15, though.  I guess that makes him above average?

[explanation:  I don't give THAT much credit for his assist numbers since it's come at the expense of ball movement, IMHO]

He's not top 10 PG?

He's third in the NBA in assists per game
He's first in the NBA in steals per game
He's fifth in the NBA in PER amongst PGs
He's 4th in the NBA in assist percentage
He's fifth amongst PGs in rebounding rate
He's 4th amongst PGs in Estimated Wins Added
He's 7th in the league in assist to turnover ratio
He's 4th in the league in assist per minutes
He's 1st in the league in FG% amongst ALL guards
He's 4th in the league in 2 pt FG% amongst ALL guards
He's sixth amongst PGs in eFG%
He is amongst a group of 4 current starting PGs with a world Championship ring
He's 24 years old


And given all that you think he's not in the top 10?

I say Paul, Nash, Williams and Kidd are ahead of him

Parker and Billups can both be said to have a very good argument to be fifth in the league along with Rondo but based on this year, I say Rondo is probably fifth, 6th the absolute lowest

I would say those 7 are still ahead of Rondo at his point.  (but not far ahead)


I would say he leads next group of three (Rondo, Nelson and Rose)

  Parker isn't better than Rondo. I'd put him top 5 with Paul, Nash, Billups and Williams. I'd also point out that he's much better than Nash or Billups were at his age.

Parker is having an off year, but his output is still there with Rondo.  They are close, but I think Parker is still the better player.


And I am not comparing Rondo to Nash and Billups when they were his age, I am comparing him to them now. 


Right now, both are better players.  Billups turns low playoff teams to contenders.  Nash is the main reason Phoenix is good. 

[KCattheStripe]

Okay...one way to discuss this is to break down his skills and weaknesses.  Of course, we're really all homers that place a high value on our own guys (keepin' it real here-we all do it).

Another way is to rank PG's and see if Rondo is the top-5 that he and DA thought he was when extending him last year, or at least top-10 to be above average.  Of course, just looking at assist numbers is a very limited way to rate a player, so we should look at other things, too, right?

(side note:  convenient that Rondo got top-5 PG money right before so many extremely talented young PG's emerged this year, eh?).

Some that should probably get top-10 consideration are:

Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Chauncey Billups
Jason Kidd
Steve Nash
Russell Westabrook (a beast)
Darren Collison
Andre Miller
Jameer Nelson (once again healthy, he's as good as any)
Tony Parker
Derrick Rose
Stephen Curry
Baron Davis
Aaron Brooks
And, of course, Rondo.

No question Rondo isn't the best.  Is he top-5?  Maybe, but I really don't think so.  Top-10?  I'm really not so sure, let's say it's debatable.  There are some players that are "different" but not necessarily "better" or "worse" that I'd just as well take, meaning they're just as effective.

He's a lock for top-15, though.  I guess that makes him above average?

[explanation:  I don't give THAT much credit for his assist numbers since it's come at the expense of ball movement, IMHO]

He's not top 10 PG?

He's third in the NBA in assists per game
He's first in the NBA in steals per game
He's fifth in the NBA in PER amongst PGs
He's 4th in the NBA in assist percentage
He's fifth amongst PGs in rebounding rate
He's 4th amongst PGs in Estimated Wins Added
He's 7th in the league in assist to turnover ratio
He's 4th in the league in assist per minutes
He's 1st in the league in FG% amongst ALL guards
He's 4th in the league in 2 pt FG% amongst ALL guards
He's sixth amongst PGs in eFG%
He is amongst a group of 4 current starting PGs with a world Championship ring
He's 24 years old


And given all that you think he's not in the top 10?

I say Paul, Nash, Williams and Kidd are ahead of him

Parker and Billups can both be said to have a very good argument to be fifth in the league along with Rondo but based on this year, I say Rondo is probably fifth, 6th the absolute lowest

I would say those 7 are still ahead of Rondo at his point.  (but not far ahead)


I would say he leads next group of three (Rondo, Nelson and Rose)

  Parker isn't better than Rondo. I'd put him top 5 with Paul, Nash, Billups and Williams. I'd also point out that he's much better than Nash or Billups were at his age.

Parker is having an off year, but his output is still there with Rondo.  They are close, but I think Parker is still the better player.


And I am not comparing Rondo to Nash and Billups when they were his age, I am comparing him to them now. 


Right now, both are better players.  Billups turns low playoff teams to contenders.  Nash is the main reason Phoenix is good. 

Rondo's been the main reason we've been able to tread water these past two months.

[BballTim]

Okay...one way to discuss this is to break down his skills and weaknesses.  Of course, we're really all homers that place a high value on our own guys (keepin' it real here-we all do it).

Another way is to rank PG's and see if Rondo is the top-5 that he and DA thought he was when extending him last year, or at least top-10 to be above average.  Of course, just looking at assist numbers is a very limited way to rate a player, so we should look at other things, too, right?

(side note:  convenient that Rondo got top-5 PG money right before so many extremely talented young PG's emerged this year, eh?).

Some that should probably get top-10 consideration are:

Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Chauncey Billups
Jason Kidd
Steve Nash
Russell Westabrook (a beast)
Darren Collison
Andre Miller
Jameer Nelson (once again healthy, he's as good as any)
Tony Parker
Derrick Rose
Stephen Curry
Baron Davis
Aaron Brooks
And, of course, Rondo.

No question Rondo isn't the best.  Is he top-5?  Maybe, but I really don't think so.  Top-10?  I'm really not so sure, let's say it's debatable.  There are some players that are "different" but not necessarily "better" or "worse" that I'd just as well take, meaning they're just as effective.

He's a lock for top-15, though.  I guess that makes him above average?

[explanation:  I don't give THAT much credit for his assist numbers since it's come at the expense of ball movement, IMHO]

He's not top 10 PG?

He's third in the NBA in assists per game
He's first in the NBA in steals per game
He's fifth in the NBA in PER amongst PGs
He's 4th in the NBA in assist percentage
He's fifth amongst PGs in rebounding rate
He's 4th amongst PGs in Estimated Wins Added
He's 7th in the league in assist to turnover ratio
He's 4th in the league in assist per minutes
He's 1st in the league in FG% amongst ALL guards
He's 4th in the league in 2 pt FG% amongst ALL guards
He's sixth amongst PGs in eFG%
He is amongst a group of 4 current starting PGs with a world Championship ring
He's 24 years old


And given all that you think he's not in the top 10?

I say Paul, Nash, Williams and Kidd are ahead of him

Parker and Billups can both be said to have a very good argument to be fifth in the league along with Rondo but based on this year, I say Rondo is probably fifth, 6th the absolute lowest

I would say those 7 are still ahead of Rondo at his point.  (but not far ahead)


I would say he leads next group of three (Rondo, Nelson and Rose)

  Parker isn't better than Rondo. I'd put him top 5 with Paul, Nash, Billups and Williams. I'd also point out that he's much better than Nash or Billups were at his age.

Parker is having an off year, but his output is still there with Rondo.  They are close, but I think Parker is still the better player.


And I am not comparing Rondo to Nash and Billups when they were his age, I am comparing him to them now. 


Right now, both are better players.  Billups turns low playoff teams to contenders.  Nash is the main reason Phoenix is good. 

  I didn't say that Rondo was better than Nash or Billups right now. I was more pointing out that when people (not you) say that they can carry a team and Rondo can't should consider that they couldn't at his age either. But I'd also point out that Rondo's been the best player on a team that's better than Phoenix, and that Rondo's stats would take a big leap if he was on a Phoenix type of team. And I don't think that Parker was clearly better than Rondo even last year, when he was playing better and Rondo wasn't as good as he is now.