"We DO/DON'T Want Allen Iverson" Thread (merged)

[CelticsFanNC]

CelticFanNC is right on this one.  How did signing Shaq work out for us?  We are not the 86 Celtics who needs Bill Walton to be the final piece to push us to the title.

36 is old for a PG, that relies on speed.   I don't think he could school Delonte or Bradley at practice at this point.  IF Michael Finley sat on the pine for us what do you all think Iverson will do?

Shaq actually worked out extremely well- much better than anyone expected, until he got injured.
What injury scares/significant history does Iverson have?

And to cetlicsfan

  First of all who did I call a punk?

 Secondly If he could "score at will" at two positions why exactly is he such an inefficient scorer(.425 career fg%....worse then that recently) who needs the ball in his hands to be effective?

    Just his style of play Iverson is a terrible fit in Boston without even considering his considerable baggage.  The Celtics  thrive on ball movement, making the extra pass.  Iverson is a classic ball hog, chucker, gunner, whatever you want to call it.  The Celtics score with great efficiency, Iverson does not.  The Celtics need to be more athletic on the perimeter if they want to continue to be an elite defensive team, Iverson hurts more then helps here.  These Celtics have been at their best when they have had great chemistry, Iverson has been toxic to team chemistry his entire career.

  Signing Iverson to ANY contract by the Boston Celtics is a step in the WRONG direction IMO.

   All of the guys I mentioned(Marbury, Cassell, Robinson) other then Davis had very little positive impact in their stays in Boston while playing on a Celtics team who's stars were younger and better then they will be the next time we see them on the court.   We don't need guys who can make a positive impact "at one time or another" we need guys who can make a positive impact night in and night out because the Big Three cannot dominate games as often or as easily as they could a few years ago.  Iverson hasn't made a consistent positive impact in a few years now(I question whether he ever did).  


  Also Iverson's MVP & Finals appearance were a decade ago. This isn't 2001.  The Eastern Conference that Iverson made a run to the Finals in was at an all-time low in terms of competition level.  That achievement is really over rated to me.  Those 76ers weren't even one of the top 8 teams in the NBA at that time IMO because every playoff team out west was better then any of the teams in the East.

I didn't say you called anyone a punk, but you have classified this group of players as a strain on the team or our chances at a flag.

I don't want to argue about teams from 10 years ago. But it's funny that you think the 76ers weren't a top 8 caliber team back then. Does that mean Iverson had an even harder time carrying them on his own?

  NO it means the Eastern Conference was so bad at that point in time that a team as average as those 76ers made it to the NBA finals.  The 'chuck and duck" Celtics of Jim O'Brien, Pierce and Walker that went to the conference finals the following year was equally unimpressive.  No one in the East was very good  and 8 to 10 teams in the West were better then anyone in the East at that point.  I'm not overly impressed with a guy leading the NBA in scoring by dominating every offensive possession  or leading a team to the Finals representing what was a pathetically bad conference in the early 2000's.  

  I'm even less impressed with Iverson now after over a decade since that over rated run that has seen almost no playoff success in 4 different NBA stops.

So if he had one decent offensive side kick or two decent contributors then he could have had multiple championships?
It's possible right?
Iverson had NO ONE to help him.
Even Dirk last year had an older Jason Kidd and Jason Terry to help carry the load through tough quarters.
Iverson had to play the LA Lakers with Shaq and Kobe.
He's one of the greatest PG's of all time. His supporting cast at the time was worse than Lebrons in Cleveland.
You're dissing Iverson by saying that his competition was no good yet he single handedly carried that team to play the Lakers.
Unfortunately even someone as talented as him couldn't combat that Lakers squad. Give him some help and it's a completely different story.
It's almost funny that you're calling him overrated because he took his team the to finals- like it's his fault that he had no decent wing men and that the conference was a poor standard.

You obviously hate the guy-which is understandable.
But if you do hate him, please make it for a certain part of his attitude, not his lack of skills or game. He had a passion and desire to go all the way with that 76ers team. Sometimes players don't get lucky like Jordan or Kobe with their Shaq and Pippens and their stories are tarnished.

  I don't hate him.  I just find him to be one of the most over rated players in recent NBA history.  His entire legacy on the positive side is built upon one run to the NBA Finals in a terrible Eastern Conference.  After that run Philly had no playoff success even though the Eastern Conference remained pathetic for a few years after while Iverson was chasing coaches out of Philadelphia and putting his own personal agenda above the teams agenda.

Otherwise he has been a toxic to the teams in which he played for and has seen almost no playoff success in the past decade plus.  He went to Denver as the supposed savior....how did that work out?  It didn't.  After a couple of disappointing seasons he was then subsequently traded to Detroit for a guy who is truly one of the great PG's in recent NBA history(Billups), a team that had been a consistent winner with Billups running the show.  As soon as Iverson arrived and Billups left the Pistons imploded and haven't been heard from since.  Coincidence?  I think not.  He proceeded to quit on Denver and then Memphis because he didn't like the role his employers decided they wanted him to play.  No one else in the NBA has even looked in his direction since.

    This is the guy you want wearing a Celtics uniform.

[GreenFaith1819]

All things considered, if Allen Iverson ends up a Celtic next season (if there is a season), I predict that he'll get 15-20 min per game, less on most nights.

I can see him getting 5-6 pts, maybe more on some nights, with 2-3 assists and a steal. He will shoot around 45%, which IMO won't be too shabby at all.

Some may ask, how do I get my numbers? Easy answer, there....the same answer as to why Kendrick Perkins, Rajon Rondo and a few others have shined in Green:

Danny, Doc, Paul, KG, and Ray Ray.

Now - this is NO disrespect to Rondo or Perk. But Perk took KG's number in OKC, and Rondo, although a great player in his own right, has CERTAINLY benefited from our Big Three.

There is NO way that Allen Iverson won't get better and be a productive player in Boston - even at THIS stage of his life. Give him a reduced (but important) role...tell him you have a shot to contribute to a championship run...tell him you have a great coach (Doc).

Also tell him that the legendary Red Auerbach once wanted you in Boston. See the second para:

http://celticsbandwagon.blogspot.com/2006/12/red-auerbach-and-allen-iverson.html

“Are you kidding? I’d love to have coached that kid. First of all, he’s quick as anyone who ever played. But beyond that, he’s a warrior. I’d have gotten along great with him. The (missing) practice thing would never have been a problem. I would just very quietly tell him, ‘Look, you need to do this because it means something to me and to the other players.’ What you have to do is let a guy know what’s important to you and let him know that if he does right by you, you’re going to do right by him. That’s the thing: my guys always knew I’d take care of them if they played hard for me – while they were playing and after they were done playing.” - Red Auerbach on whether or not Allen Iverson could play for him.

Now of course he's no longer as quick, but I bet you he still has desire and heart.

And I bet you that if Red were here today - he'd STILL want AI - maybe even more. AI still has a lot to prove.

Place Allen Iverson and many other players around KG, Ray and Paul and most of them will fit in. That's why, to me, Danny Ainge will ALWAYS be a great GM. He took KG and Ray and figured out that these two, paired along with Paul, would provide the necessary chemistry to bring home Banner 17. They are unique and special players.

Not all "Teamups" work out like it did for us in 07-08 (See MIA last June). You place most players on this team and they will be productive and fit in - including Allen Iverson.

[Bankshot]

Pass on Iverson.

[thirstyboots18]

Right now I think E'twaun Moore is a better NBA player than Allen Iverson. He's shooting 45% while shooting 42% from 3 and is averaging 9.5 PPG in the Euroleague.

Besides. Moore is 6'4", isn't a tweener, has a future in this league.

That's a very good point.
I guess the argument is becoming more about whether or not Iverson would bring his baggage with him.

I guess this is a similar argument to big baby vs JJJ and the 6th man + backup 4 spot.


If we are playing the Miami Heat in game 7 of the ECF, who do we want coming off the bench ? Is one season enough time for rookies to shoulder such responsibility?
Are Iverson or Davis' past imperfections too significant to gamble on them?

So...the question is do we want someone who has proven he can not shoulder the responsibility, or someone who has not proven anything?

[Q_FBE]

No more Question Marks!!!!!

Phooey on Allen Iverson. This question is irrelevent since I do not believe they will playing any NBA basketball this season. You got too many hot tempered owners that know they will have no shot at competing and want to change the rules to work to their advantage.

[chambers]

Right now I think E'twaun Moore is a better NBA player than Allen Iverson. He's shooting 45% while shooting 42% from 3 and is averaging 9.5 PPG in the Euroleague.

Besides. Moore is 6'4", isn't a tweener, has a future in this league.

That's a very good point.
I guess the argument is becoming more about whether or not Iverson would bring his baggage with him.

I guess this is a similar argument to big baby vs JJJ and the 6th man + backup 4 spot.


If we are playing the Miami Heat in game 7 of the ECF, who do we want coming off the bench ? Is one season enough time for rookies to shoulder such responsibility?
Are Iverson or Davis' past imperfections too significant to gamble on them?

So...the question is do we want someone who has proven he can not shoulder the responsibility, or someone who has not proven anything?

Who 'cannot' shoulder the responsibility?
I've seen Big Baby shoulder the responsibility on many an occasion. People here like to forget the 2 years of sweat and tears after a bad 6 months...and the 4th and 2nd placings in 6th man of the year voting...for me, game 4 vs Orlando in 2010 comes to mind.
I've seen Iverson carry an absolute bum squad pathetic team to the NBA finals...oh, and does getting the NBA MVP constitute as proving yourself to a certain degree?
I'm assuming you're talking about one of the above mentioned?

[TitleMaster]

Ok folks, sounds like we need an eating crow finale.

If A.I. comes to town and he's a bust, then his adherents will need to come online and admit that they were clueless.

If ,on the other hand, he's reformed and plays his heart out, giving us a quality guard off the bench, then I'll personally issue a TitleMaster decree which states that my IQ is officially 80.

[thirstyboots18]

I was talking about Glen Davis...and no, I don't think he shouldered the responsibility to play team ball when it really mattered.  I think he has a little bit of the A.I. in him...without the natural talent...and is somehow convinced he has to be "the man", maybe never having learned to trust his teammates.

[dtrader]

Why do people keep saying AI is broke?  Maybe I missed something, but I never heard anything about any AI bankruptcy filings.  I know he likes to gamble, but so does Jordan.  Never heard anything about Jordan being broke. 

This should inform you, Dtrader and it's a quick google search is all it took.  Proof of trouble.

http://minorityfortune.com/liabilities/allen-iverson-newest-financial-woes/

http://www.bvonsports.com/2010/03/09/allen-iverson-alcohol-gambling/

http://www.bvonmoney.com/2011/03/07/black-celebrity-finances-foreclosure-allen-iverson/

http://www.prlog.org/10190694-allen-iversons-mom-has-her-home-auctioned.html

http://www.hoopsvibe.com/nba-news-and-rumors/articles/81362-allen-iverson-banned-from-multiple-casinos

I take no pleasure in seeing the man have difficulties.  This would be bad stuff for anyone.  I hope he manages to bounce back and push himself back from the casio tables.   I just think he is too old to help here given his game has always been based more on his athletic ability than skill.  But it is a crying shame to see a millionaire lose his money whether it is at the tables or in the stock market.  Dude has more going on than his game to correct though and I wish him luck.  That being said I have stoutly been against him.  I don't he is the same player he once was in terms of ability.  But I don't hate him as a man.

I think Kobe is a punk, he disquises all kinds of attacks and hurts people in a sneaky way in a game still he is a helluva player.   He won't do it mano-e-mano but will stick his thumb in your eye or trip someone.  The rape has nothing to do with it but I dislike him because he is a Laker.  Shaq no, I would not call him a punk, he is big clown.   Iverson, I 've always thought of him as a balling warrior.  I don't think any of these guys are true gangster types and I think NBA ballers for the most part are protenders.  If you were really involved with illicit activities you don't broadcast it and if your really bad you don't need to pretend you are.   You know it in your heart and don't need to present like your Rambo. 

Most tough guys I knew were quiet types.   Bravado is just self assurance for the weak.  I have been in 26 fights of the bar fight variety (bouncer and soldier here) and the guys who pretended to be tough never gave me any problems.  But a quiet man is one to be wary of as you don't know what their are thinking.  My point of it is , it's really hard to tell who is a punk or not as we don't know these guys on a personal level.  I would think from the fighting I have seen the NBA about 99% are punks when it comes to fighting.  I don't consider the arm flailing girly punches you see in the game to be the fighting of true men.  But there are bound to be a few of them you would not want to meet in a dark alley.  I would bet most of them are more dangerous to themselves with a gun than they would be to others.  They are playing tough.   Why would they choose a 9mm so much.  A 10MM Glock 20 is far better weapon not to mention a shotgun.

Tony Allen has gang connections, and fought his own teammates over a gambling debt, but he's talked about on here with reverence.  The way i see it, people just aren't comfortable with the fact that AI made millions and never changed.  Everything from his hair, to his tattoos, to his style of dress and way of speaking, is a reflection of where he grew up, and mainstream America is still scared of that.

I had some so called gang guys try to scare me in the Army.  I was a big Cornfeed country boy back them ( 6'7" 235 lbs)  They tried to boss me around and I told them to @#$$ off.  They  then told me they were Crips ( to be honest I thought it was place to bury people) and gang members.  I told the two guys that they better look over their shoulder because it was only me and them and I have had enough of their crap.   They ran away like babies to the drill sergeant and ratted me out.  The drill sergeant sided with me.   I got those jerks back though when we got to use the pugel sticks and practice hand to hand on one other and if they were gang bangers they must have been low level errand boys because they could not fight a lick.  Not everyone is intimidated by gangs and I am from middle america keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

Iverson doesn't scare me one bit.  Tattoos don't make someone bad.  They are decorations.  Hair like that is something to grab ahold of in fight.  Short hair for the win as you can't grip it.  He isn't remotely a large or imposing man.  I think he was a good to great ball player but now he is over the hill.

I have no idea how this turned into "who's scared of gangs" or "how to beat Allen Iverson in a fight".  Thats not where I was trying to take it.  The fact that you have had run in with gangs and weren't scared is great, but it doesnt address my point, that Tony Allen has as much if not more trouble in his past than AI, but is not routinely called a punk on here.

I have looked at the links you posted, and they dont show AI to be broke (or even in financial trouble).  Some discuss his rumored gambling problem, and the others address him dealing with foreclosure.  If you read the details of the foreclosure situation, it doesnt look like it's as much a financial issue, as it is a situation where he either forgot about the property or was mismanaging it.  It was about to be sold near the asking price, and AI had a substantial amount of the house already paid for, so he would have taken $ away from the sale.  It's more likely a situation where it wasn't his primary residence and he stopped keeping up with it (similar to his mothers house).   Nicholas Cage has probably seen 10 multi million dollar properties fall into foreclosure in the past 5 years. He was never actually broke....he just had too many properties to keep track off, and knows that having a foreclosure on his credit history doesnt matter much when you can pay millions in cash, and show millions more in annual income.

I have yet to hear or see anything that has ever shown AI to be broke or in financial trouble.

[Finkelskyhook]

I take no pleasure in seeing the man have difficulties.

But I'll bet some of the coaches and organizations he threw under the bus do.

[relja]

Okay, here's an idea that I think it could work..If T-Mac and Pietrus don't work out..

You guys loved the idea that T-Mac could play for us, but why not AI? I know he's old and didn't play a couple of years, but why not give it a shot?

I know he has a rumor of being a locker room cancer, but believe me, he's bankrupt and wants to play bad and he will give all that he has.. He doesn't care about money at this point, as any amount would suit him..

He could be played as a 3rd string SG with kinda limited minutes.. I mean, the guy has mad skills and if he worked harder and didn't screw around he could have been better than Jordan, the most talented player ever..

Why not give it a try and waive him if it doesn't work out? I mean, he has to be better than Josh Childress or Jodie Meeks, like some people suggested it..

[Jon]

I've jumped on the AI bandwagon in past years, I just don't see it making sense this year at all.  Not only is AI one more year removed from being relevant, this team as currently constructed is  an especially bad fit for him. 

Come playoff time, our 1/2 rotation is likely going to almost entirely a mix of Rondo, Bradley, and Terry who are all 6-2 or less.  If we want to get a fourth guy involved, we really need someone who is at least 6-4 or 6-5, if not taller. 

[slamtheking]

Okay, here's an idea that I think it could work..If T-Mac and Pietrus don't work out..

You guys loved the idea that T-Mac could play for us, but why not AI? I know he's old and didn't play a couple of years, but why not give it a shot?

actually no, we didn't like the idea of T-Mac playing for us and as for AI, the guy was overrated when he had an NBA job and at this point he's completely washed up.  never mind his personality and ego issues.

team needs talent, not a has-been headache

[BudweiserCeltic]

We're undersized in the 1 & 2 positions as it is.

[Fafnir]

Okay, here's an idea that I think it could work..If T-Mac and Pietrus don't work out..

You guys loved the idea that T-Mac could play for us, but why not AI? I know he's old and didn't play a couple of years, but why not give it a shot?

actually no, we didn't like the idea of T-Mac playing for us and as for AI, the guy was overrated when he had an NBA job and at this point he's completely washed up.  never mind his personality and ego issues.

team needs talent, not a has-been headache

I wouldn't mind T-Mac except he won't be happy to play a Marquis Daniels or Sasha Pavolich type role.