Toronto Idea - Garnett for Bosh

[LarBrd33]

just a question for everyone... from ownership's perspective... don't they get a lot more out of world famous megastar Kevin Garnett than they would with Bosh?

How much does ownership gain from having a KG/Duncan/Kobe/LeBron on their team instead of a Michael Redd/Chris Bosh/Al Jefferson type?  Is it major?... or just an increase in media attention, jersey sales and TV ratings?

[Chris]

just a question for everyone... from ownership's perspective... don't they get a lot more out of world famous megastar Kevin Garnett than they would with Bosh?

How much does ownership gain from having a KG/Duncan/Kobe/LeBron on their team instead of a Michael Redd/Chris Bosh/Al Jefferson type?  Is it major?... or just an increase in media attention, jersey sales and TV ratings?

Well, they make a whole lot more money if they are winning, and contending.  The actual player does make a small difference, but not a huge one.  Not to mention, there is plenty of reason to believe that Bosh would be nearly as marketable as KG is if he were to come to a market like Boston.  He has already proven he has some media savvy with his All-Star "commercial" a couple of years ago.  It is not a stretch to think he would be a real fan favorite in a market like Boston.

More importantly though, he would likely keep this team winning for much longer than KG would.  So while KG might bring in marginally more money in the next couple of years, Bosh will be bringing in the cash for another 5 or 6 years (or more).

[Chris]

One reason I'd have to be against it is that I think you'd likely be trading away one or two rings (maybe now) for one or two rings (maybe later). I'd rather get em now and start over with KGs salary than try to win later with Bosh, Rondo, Perk, and maybe one other guy, which would be PP for a few years and then try to be someone else

I don't think it is "likely".  I think when you consider KG's health issues over the last year, the chances of the team winning a championship with him and Bosh this season are pretty close to even.  Even though a healthy KG might give the C's a better chance of winning it all, a healthy KG is less likely than a healthy Bosh.

[Eja117]

One reason I'd have to be against it is that I think you'd likely be trading away one or two rings (maybe now) for one or two rings (maybe later). I'd rather get em now and start over with KGs salary than try to win later with Bosh, Rondo, Perk, and maybe one other guy, which would be PP for a few years and then try to be someone else

I don't think it is "likely".  I think when you consider KG's health issues over the last year, the chances of the team winning a championship with him and Bosh this season are pretty close to even.  Even though a healthy KG might give the C's a better chance of winning it all, a healthy KG is less likely than a healthy Bosh.

This is the difference. I think KG makes the entire team better at all times. I think he even made the team just a little better from the sideline during the playoffs. The whole team knew if they didn't play D and get a hand in a guy's face or got beat for a reb due to less effort, when they went back to the bench KG would get in their face and be like "What is that? What the hell was that?"

Bosh doesn't do that.

Someone said Bosh could play good defense on a team with 1. good defensive players. check 2. dedicated to defense. Without KG I don't think they keep doing it, certainly not to the level they are now. 3. A great defensive coach. Nobody thought of Doc that way till KG came here. I remember him saying we didn't need to work on D cause we work on D when we're working on offense in practice.

[mgent]

Even though a healthy KG might give the C's a better chance of winning it all, a healthy KG is less likely than a healthy Bosh.

Touche.

[Michael Anthony]

One reason I'd have to be against it is that I think you'd likely be trading away one or two rings (maybe now) for one or two rings (maybe later). I'd rather get em now and start over with KGs salary than try to win later with Bosh, Rondo, Perk, and maybe one other guy, which would be PP for a few years and then try to be someone else

I don't think it is "likely".  I think when you consider KG's health issues over the last year, the chances of the team winning a championship with him and Bosh this season are pretty close to even.  Even though a healthy KG might give the C's a better chance of winning it all, a healthy KG is less likely than a healthy Bosh.

This is the difference. I think KG makes the entire team better at all times. I think he even made the team just a little better from the sideline during the playoffs. The whole team knew if they didn't play D and get a hand in a guy's face or got beat for a reb due to less effort, when they went back to the bench KG would get in their face and be like "What is that? What the hell was that?"

Bosh doesn't do that.

Someone said Bosh could play good defense on a team with 1. good defensive players. check 2. dedicated to defense. Without KG I don't think they keep doing it, certainly not to the level they are now. 3. A great defensive coach. Nobody thought of Doc that way till KG came here. I remember him saying we didn't need to work on D cause we work on D when we're working on offense in practice.

When people mention the great defensive coach they are not talking about Doc.

[Michael Anthony]

Another point about Bosh as the best player on this team. Who says he would be the best player? For much of last season, and especially in the first round of the playoffs, Rondo was the best player on this team.

Can a dominant point guard-power forward combo, with solid contributions from veteran wings, a couple of sud bigs and a defensive mindset win a championship?

Ask San Antonio

[CelticG1]

Yes but if there is one guy who led this team to the title in the past 23 years, its Kevin Garnett

Just because Kevin Garnett led us to that title doesn't mean that no one else ever will or can

Until Kevin Garnett retires he will be the only guy to lead us to a title.    KG is in green until he joins the Birds, Russells, Havliceks up in the rafters as title winning hall of famers who got their numbers retired.   Same thing with Pierce.  Hopefully same thing with Ray Allen. 

KG isn't getting traded for anyone, case closed.   He's not playing on another NBA team, case closed.     Now maybe if Stop & Shop starts producing Mr.T/LBJ cereal in mass quantities, I will consider a trade for the rights to that cereal so I can eat box after box for breakfast.   Until then Garnett is a Celtic forever.

Well I think that its absolutely ridiculous to assume that KG is the only one who can lead us to a championship. Also I'd be surprised if KG and Ray got their numbers retired here. They would have to do more than win a Championship or 2 especially since they are fading more now and will start to play a lesser role on the team as the next few years go by (even if Allen remains on the team)

[greenwise]

Yes but if there is one guy who led this team to the title in the past 23 years, its Kevin Garnett

Just because Kevin Garnett led us to that title doesn't mean that no one else ever will or can

Until Kevin Garnett retires he will be the only guy to lead us to a title.    KG is in green until he joins the Birds, Russells, Havliceks up in the rafters as title winning hall of famers who got their numbers retired.   Same thing with Pierce.  Hopefully same thing with Ray Allen. 

KG isn't getting traded for anyone, case closed.   He's not playing on another NBA team, case closed.     Now maybe if Stop & Shop starts producing Mr.T/LBJ cereal in mass quantities, I will consider a trade for the rights to that cereal so I can eat box after box for breakfast.   Until then Garnett is a Celtic forever.

Well I think that its absolutely ridiculous to assume that KG is the only one who can lead us to a championship. Also I'd be surprised if KG and Ray got their numbers retired here. They would have to do more than win a Championship or 2 especially since they are fading more now and will start to play a lesser role on the team as the next few years go by (even if Allen remains on the team)

Thank God we are 7-1 currently, otherwise there would be at least 8 trade idea threads in the forums Jeez, this team is a major contender for the NBA title and some Celtics fans are already finding problems in the team... we are fine!

[Atzar]

I don't think anybody thinks there's a problem with the team right now.  I understood the question to be purely hypothetical... and if Toronto came to me with the trade, I'd have to do it.  I definitely do think this team is in a position to win it all this year.

[Chris]

I remember him saying we didn't need to work on D cause we work on D when we're working on offense in practice.

I don't don't to throw this thread off too much, but wow, when did you ever hear that?  Doc ALWAYS preached defense.  Before KG got here, he used to always say that they spent entire practices just trying to teach the young guys the defensive rotations.  I think this is a case of revisionist history.

[CelticG1]

So we are 7-1 and the Cavs want to trade Lebron for Pierce..... But we obviously decline because we are 7-1! Pierce has a ring and Lebron doesn't. Also Pierce is the face of this franchise and the best player on this team (or is that KG?). Lebron is a volume shooter and only cares about himself. Pierce took him toe to toe in the ECSF and beat him in 08. The offense always goes through him and we don't need that on this team. We have too much chemistry right now and it would probably upset some of the players.

To a little lesser extent this is how I feel people are reacting to a KG-Bosh trade

[GreenFaith1819]

Trading Garnett is like trading the head off of your shoulders.    Big no no.

To the original poster -- Are you out of your mind?

Tommy Point to Greenwise, lol...

Awesome videos. And the funny thing is that we will Certainly see KG doing this stuff again, soon (dunking over folks, dunking in traffic, etc). Give it sometime for him to get his legs back.

And let's not forget the Blocks, too....

The Kevin Garnett from those two videos WILL be back, soon. Lookout NBA, there goes that man------Kevin Garnett!!!

Fact: Kevin Garnett is 33 years old, and has to date played in over 1000 regular season NBA games, and logged nearly 40,000 NBA mins, most of those as the primary scorer, rebounder, and playmaker for a team that needed him to play at an all-NBA level every night just to finish the season at .500. To put this in perspective, Larry Bird played for 13 NBA seasons, retired when he was 35, and still never broke 1000 regular season games or 40,000 minutes.

Fact: Kevin Garnett's games played, minutes per game, points per game, rebounds per game, blocks per game, and assists per game have all dropped significantly over the last 4 seasons (including this one to date)

Fact: Over those same 4 seasons, his points per 48 mins, and rebounds per 48 mins have also significantly dropped.

Fact: It has taken Kevin Garnett nearly a year (if you even want to consider him "back"..I still think he's a month or two away, assuming he ever gets back his lost athleticism and explosiveness) to recover from the first major injury of his playing career. The injury was caused by bone spurs inflaming the tendons around his knee. Bone spurs in this case (I believe, all you MD's out there correct me if I'm wrong) are the result of a grueling career over 15 years which has seen Garnett shoulder the load for his team year in year out.

Conclusion: Garnett will continue to deteriorate, with the most notable hits coming to his rebounding rate and scoring rate. Until the day he dies he will consistently give 100%, but what that 100% will amount to year after year will continue to shrink. He brings a rare dedication to defense and ego-less desire to win night in night out that is almost impossible to find. No doubt he will have significant value until he retires.

Chris Bosh has played 6 seasons. He's 24. He's one of the top players in the NBA, and he will presumably only improve. He's suffered through poor teammates and never complained, he has shown himself to be a decent guy, and shown a great dedication to fans. His statistics are REMARKABLY similar to Garnett's at the same age.

So what are you looking at? Keep a 33 yr old and allow him to retire in 4 years or so with dignity and honor in a city that has come to embrace him as a newfound son, or painfully trade away the guy who helped reinvigorate the franchise to ensure a chance to remain at an elite level and remain relevant in the championship conversation.

As I said before I will say again, I wouldn't trade Garnett because I believe that player transactions and dealings should never be done without regard to what is "right". It would not be "right" to trade Garnett. However, to an objective observer it would certainly be "prudent".

Look at the numbers and the facts, and stop calling people who would consider this crazy. They're not crazy. Maybe we're crazy for saying we wouldn't do it...but I'm okay with that. No one said to be a fan you had to be rational (but I suppose you ought to be able to recognize a rational argument when you see one).

I like folks who do research and look up facts/figures, but I try to have a more literal look at things:

Kevin Garnett has one Championship already. He'll probably help the C's win one (maybe two) more. That would give The Celtics three Championships during his time here.

Do the trade Today for Bosh, and I really don't see the Celtics winning ANY championships....no matter how long their window of opportunity may appear with Bosh.

I really don't think anyone is calling folks crazy, but just the whole concept...sometimes life is more than just numbers.

Look at Bret Favre..40 years old and he is in the MVP running.

And still only one title.

But contending for another one (or two)

[jambr380]

I just seems weird to me that people think that we are definitely going to win one or two more titles with an aging KG, but have NO CHANCE with young [semi] superstar in Bosh. Does the mindset of the team fly out the window with trading KG? Is Bosh really that bad? Other posters have said this, but with Big Baby playing most of the minutes at PF, we did very well in the playoffs last year. You are telling me that with Bosh and Sheed, along with Baby, that we have no chance?

I don't know. Maybe I am being too rational about this whole thing, but I believe it would be a no-brainer and if you all think that Celtics management wouldn't be all over this, then you need to re-think things. KG led us to the promiseland. I just hope he doesn't lead us to the lottery by holding on to him for too long. He will always be productive, but we are fools to think that the big three are going to always be at 2007-08 form. You always need to look toward the future and take opportuities that present themselves...don't worry, though- this isn't one isn't be presented anytime soon.

Yes you thinking a trade of KG for Bosh is rational.  I choose to think the opposite of you and this trade idea.

...and you are certainly not alone. I am not trying to claim I am this uber-rational person, I meant in terms of thinking about how this would solidify our future, while still maintaining a level of dominance now. Many people have said they wouldn't want to trade Garnett because they like him too much, which obviously is thinking with a 'fan first' attitude. I, however, can't disagree with that premise...

[Eja117]

I remember him saying we didn't need to work on D cause we work on D when we're working on offense in practice.

I don't don't to throw this thread off too much, but wow, when did you ever hear that?  Doc ALWAYS preached defense.  Before KG got here, he used to always say that they spent entire practices just trying to teach the young guys the defensive rotations.  I think this is a case of revisionist history.

Ironically I completely agree with you that Doc did preach a ton of defense, and yet I remember this. I wonder if maybe someone like Isiah Thomas said it. I'm trying to find the quote and not finding it