2009 Celticsblog Draft: Draft Thread

[Donoghus]

"Retaliation voting" will probably take place regardless if the voting is public or not.  Its fairly certain that it occurred last year as was witnessed by some of the results.  

We've gone the private vote route and there were inconsistencies.  

If people want to "retaliate vote" in the public vote, there is nothing here to stop them.  However, those people will also have nothing to hide behind and will open themselves up to the scrutiny of the rest of us playing this game.  I'm willing to bet, that'll will impact the way other owners deal with that owner down the road.

The hope is that the threat of this "public exposure of bias" will be enough to severely limit the amount of "retaliation voting" seen in the past.  

This, among anything else, is the reason I instituted the idea of public ballot this year.

[Donoghus]

You know, I appreciate that 25 of you have already done your presser and you're freakin out about how people are gonna vote for you, but there are 5 teams left to give their press releases, and they've been waiting since last tuesday at midnight to have their say about their team. Being one of those teams I think whatever grandstanding anyone wants to do one way or another about the voting process can wait until the pacific has their day in court, as it were.

This is supposed to be fun, and anyone who votes ingenuously for any reason is a complete tool. I don't think there needs to be much more debate than that.

You're right. That person would be a tool.

For those who were here last year that have already admitted that there was shady voting inconsistencies, would you care to share with us the names of the owners that voted shadily?

Do you even know who those people were?

Can you let us know for sure that those people are no longer playing this game?

If all the answers to the above questions are "no" then how can anyone be so sure that retaliation voting won't take place even in a public forum?

This is getting way too serious for what's supposed to be a fun distraction.  The rules are laid out, just abide by them, and we'll continue to have fun with limited flame wars.

Fine. I'll stop.

But if there are people whining and crying about voting inconsistencies again, don't say I didn't warn you.

You know, its probably going to happen anyway but the idea of this is to mimimize it.  I don't think there is a perfect system.  Its extremely hard to be totally objective in any situation.

[bucknersrevenge]

Also, in reference to buckner's concern, if there's any shady "strategic voting" taking place, I'll make it my personal mission to make sure that such GM is excluded from next year's draft.

Integrity absolutely does have a place in games on here.  Strategic voting is, essentially, cheating.

My question is how can you even prove strategic voting though? No one can even prove their was strategic voting last year. People who felt their team got gypped last year would say so but of course they would. They thought their team was better. Others didn't like their team as much as they did. If someone doesn't like a team, they don't like a team. Not to continually nitpick here cuz I do understand what Don is trying to do but I just don't see how you can prove strategic voting. If someone doesn't see a division like someone else does I guess they don't see it. Someone says, hey I like these players on his team together better than those players on that team. What do you tell them? "You're stupid"? "You're lying"?

I definitely understand wanting things to be fair but trying to police people's minds or their opinions; I think that's like trying to ice skate uphill.

[Edgar]

Also, in reference to buckner's concern, if there's any shady "strategic voting" taking place, I'll make it my personal mission to make sure that such GM is excluded from next year's draft.

Integrity absolutely does have a place in games on here.  Strategic voting is, essentially, cheating.

OIf someone doesn't see a division like someone else does I guess they don't see it. Someone says, hey I like these players on his team together better than those players on that team. What do you tell them? "You're stupid"? "You're lying"?

I definitely understand wanting things to be fair but trying to police people's minds or their opinions; I think that's like trying to ice skate uphill.

Pretty much
specially if some od us still love

[Roy Hobbs]

Also, in reference to buckner's concern, if there's any shady "strategic voting" taking place, I'll make it my personal mission to make sure that such GM is excluded from next year's draft.

Integrity absolutely does have a place in games on here.  Strategic voting is, essentially, cheating.

My question is how can you even prove strategic voting though? No one can even prove their was strategic voting last year. People who felt their team got gypped last year would say so but of course they would. They thought their team was better. Others didn't like their team as much as they did. If someone doesn't like a team, they don't like a team. Not to continually nitpick here cuz I do understand what Don is trying to do but I just don't see how you can prove strategic voting. If someone doesn't see a division like someone else does I guess they don't see it. Someone says, hey I like these players on his team together better than those players on that team. What do you tell them? "You're stupid"? "You're lying"?

I definitely understand wanting things to be fair but trying to police people's minds or their opinions; I think that's like trying to ice skate uphill.

When one ballot has a team like Houston last year marked 14th or 15th, when they were clearly a playoff team, that's pretty clearly strategic voting.  If two managers were in a feud, and they mark each other's teams substantially lower than everyone else has, that's strategic voting.

You can't catch every instance, but you can certainly catch some.

[Rondo2287]

Right like when I vote Portland in the cellar this year there will be some questions which is why im starting to prepare my defense now. 

Cough**Scrolling Text**Cough

[Roy Hobbs]

5) Houston has repeatedly criticized your bench, saying that it was on par with Chicago's.  This was done even before Kleiza was lost.  How do you respond to this criticism?

Did I fall asleep at the wheel again? That's embarrassing.

Still, I was right about Kleiza. Also, a comparison to the New Bulls DynastyTM is also a compliment. Buffalo and Chicago have two of the league's best starting lineups.

But now I'm curious. Since Portland disagrees (is that right?) that the benches are comparable, how do you match the two up?

Here is Buffalo's bench versus Chicago's bench.

Linas Kleiza vs. Ryan Anderson
James Jones vs. James Johnson
Zaza Pachulia vs. Hilton Armstrong
Quentin Richardson vs. Deshawn Stevenson
Sergio Rodriguez vs. Jason Williams

Other than a clear advantage in the middle (the Braves also have Brian Skinner while Hilton Armstrong is headed out of the league) I just don't see the difference. In fact, after Bulls' deadline shuffling I give Chicago's backcourt the edge.

Also, I know Chicago's GM would want me to mention Keith Bogans, which I failed to do the first time around.

Of the players you listed, and disregarding Kleiza,

James Jones > James Johnson, at least until Johnson proves something in the league.  Jones is a proven role player and an elite shooter; Johnson has proven nothing.

Zaza Pachulia > Hilton Armstrong.  Zaza is stronger, scores more, and is a much better rebounder.

Quentin Richardson > Deshawn Stevenson.  I don't like either player, but QRich was a *significantly* better scorer, rebounder, and shooter last season, and he's not coming off a major back injury.

Sergio Rodriguez > Jason Williams.  Williams has been out of the league for a year.  He was in decline before taking a year off, so I can't imagine he's gotten much better.  Rodriquez, on the other hand, earned a place in a playoff team's rotation.

Brian Skinner < Ryan Anderson.  Chicago has him here.

[riah32]

Sacramento,


If an Eastern GM were to tell you that they were going to put your team 12th out of 15 teams in West would it effect where you placed their team in tomorrow's voting?

Depends on whose team it is. I say with your team I got them between 7-10 in the east

[nickagneta]

5) Houston has repeatedly criticized your bench, saying that it was on par with Chicago's.  This was done even before Kleiza was lost.  How do you respond to this criticism?

Did I fall asleep at the wheel again? That's embarrassing.

Still, I was right about Kleiza. Also, a comparison to the New Bulls DynastyTM is also a compliment. Buffalo and Chicago have two of the league's best starting lineups.

But now I'm curious. Since Portland disagrees (is that right?) that the benches are comparable, how do you match the two up?

Here is Buffalo's bench versus Chicago's bench.

Linas Kleiza vs. Ryan Anderson
James Jones vs. James Johnson
Zaza Pachulia vs. Hilton Armstrong
Quentin Richardson vs. Deshawn Stevenson
Sergio Rodriguez vs. Jason Williams

Other than a clear advantage in the middle (the Braves also have Brian Skinner while Hilton Armstrong is headed out of the league) I just don't see the difference. In fact, after Bulls' deadline shuffling I give Chicago's backcourt the edge.

Also, I know Chicago's GM would want me to mention Keith Bogans, which I failed to do the first time around.

Of the players you listed, and disregarding Kleiza,

James Jones > James Johnson, at least until Johnson proves something in the league.  Jones is a proven role player and an elite shooter; Johnson has proven nothing.

Zaza Pachulia > Hilton Armstrong.  Zaza is stronger, scores more, and is a much better rebounder.

Quentin Richardson > Deshawn Stevenson.  I don't like either player, but QRich was a *significantly* better scorer, rebounder, and shooter last season, and he's not coming off a major back injury.

Sergio Rodriguez > Jason Williams.  Williams has been out of the league for a year.  He was in decline before taking a year off, so I can't imagine he's gotten much better.  Rodriquez, on the other hand, earned a place in a playoff team's rotation.

Brian Skinner < Ryan Anderson.  Chicago has him here.

I have to agree with everything Roy said here.

[nickagneta]

Sacramento,


If an Eastern GM were to tell you that they were going to put your team 12th out of 15 teams in West would it effect where you placed their team in tomorrow's voting?

Depends on whose team it is. I say with your team I got them between 7-10 in the east

Well it's a good thing I'm voting your team #1 in the West then

[johnnyrondo]

5) Houston has repeatedly criticized your bench, saying that it was on par with Chicago's.  This was done even before Kleiza was lost.  How do you respond to this criticism?

Did I fall asleep at the wheel again? That's embarrassing.

Still, I was right about Kleiza. Also, a comparison to the New Bulls DynastyTM is also a compliment. Buffalo and Chicago have two of the league's best starting lineups.

But now I'm curious. Since Portland disagrees (is that right?) that the benches are comparable, how do you match the two up?

Here is Buffalo's bench versus Chicago's bench.

Linas Kleiza vs. Ryan Anderson
James Jones vs. James Johnson
Zaza Pachulia vs. Hilton Armstrong
Quentin Richardson vs. Deshawn Stevenson
Sergio Rodriguez vs. Jason Williams

Other than a clear advantage in the middle (the Braves also have Brian Skinner while Hilton Armstrong is headed out of the league) I just don't see the difference. In fact, after Bulls' deadline shuffling I give Chicago's backcourt the edge.

Also, I know Chicago's GM would want me to mention Keith Bogans, which I failed to do the first time around.

Of the players you listed, and disregarding Kleiza,

James Jones > James Johnson, at least until Johnson proves something in the league.  Jones is a proven role player and an elite shooter; Johnson has proven nothing.

Zaza Pachulia > Hilton Armstrong.  Zaza is stronger, scores more, and is a much better rebounder.

Quentin Richardson > Deshawn Stevenson.  I don't like either player, but QRich was a *significantly* better scorer, rebounder, and shooter last season, and he's not coming off a major back injury.

Sergio Rodriguez > Jason Williams.  Williams has been out of the league for a year.  He was in decline before taking a year off, so I can't imagine he's gotten much better.  Rodriquez, on the other hand, earned a place in a playoff team's rotation.

Brian Skinner < Ryan Anderson.  Chicago has him here.

I have to agree with everything Roy said here.

I prefer Deshawn to Q. I think it's unfair to compare Deshawn's one injury yr to Q's rare healthy yr.

I prefer Bogans/Johnson/Buddinger to James Jones

I prefer Jason Williams/Javaris to Sergio, though I like Sergio.

I prefer Ryan Anderson significantly to Skinner

I prefer Zaza over Armstrong, though Armstrong fits our style better.

I see the Bulls and Braves in the Finals. I doubt we'd each have ten man rotations in the Finals though. The Lakers basically went with a 7 man rotation. I think Anderson, Deshawn, J-Will, Zaza, Q, and Sergio will do fine in the Finals.  

[Roy Hobbs]

5) Houston has repeatedly criticized your bench, saying that it was on par with Chicago's.  This was done even before Kleiza was lost.  How do you respond to this criticism?

Did I fall asleep at the wheel again? That's embarrassing.

Still, I was right about Kleiza. Also, a comparison to the New Bulls DynastyTM is also a compliment. Buffalo and Chicago have two of the league's best starting lineups.

But now I'm curious. Since Portland disagrees (is that right?) that the benches are comparable, how do you match the two up?

Here is Buffalo's bench versus Chicago's bench.

Linas Kleiza vs. Ryan Anderson
James Jones vs. James Johnson
Zaza Pachulia vs. Hilton Armstrong
Quentin Richardson vs. Deshawn Stevenson
Sergio Rodriguez vs. Jason Williams

Other than a clear advantage in the middle (the Braves also have Brian Skinner while Hilton Armstrong is headed out of the league) I just don't see the difference. In fact, after Bulls' deadline shuffling I give Chicago's backcourt the edge.

Also, I know Chicago's GM would want me to mention Keith Bogans, which I failed to do the first time around.

Of the players you listed, and disregarding Kleiza,

James Jones > James Johnson, at least until Johnson proves something in the league.  Jones is a proven role player and an elite shooter; Johnson has proven nothing.

Zaza Pachulia > Hilton Armstrong.  Zaza is stronger, scores more, and is a much better rebounder.

Quentin Richardson > Deshawn Stevenson.  I don't like either player, but QRich was a *significantly* better scorer, rebounder, and shooter last season, and he's not coming off a major back injury.

Sergio Rodriguez > Jason Williams.  Williams has been out of the league for a year.  He was in decline before taking a year off, so I can't imagine he's gotten much better.  Rodriquez, on the other hand, earned a place in a playoff team's rotation.

Brian Skinner < Ryan Anderson.  Chicago has him here.

I have to agree with everything Roy said here.

I prefer Deshawn to Q. I think it's unfair to compare Deshawn's one injury yr to Q's rare healthy yr.

I prefer Bogans/Johnson/Buddinger to James Jones

I prefer Jason Williams/Javaris to Sergio, though I like Sergio.

I prefer Ryan Anderson significantly to Skinner

I prefer Zaza over Armstrong, though Armstrong fits our style better.

I see the Bulls and Braves in the Finals. I doubt we'd each have ten man rotations in the Finals though. The Lakers basically went with a 7 man rotation. I think Anderson, Deshawn, J-Will, Zaza, Q, and Sergio will do fine in the Finals.  

Neither Chicago nor Buffalo is good enough to reach the Finals, in my opinion, although some of the alliances you've built may get you there.

[nickagneta]

I won't say they both make the Finals because I want to see what the playoff matchups are like because I think both teams have teams out there that if they meet them in the playoff the will lose to, but, my #1's in both conferences are Cleveland and Buffalo.

Oops, sorry. I meant Sacramento

[Roy Hobbs]

I won't say they both make the Finals because I want to see what the playoff matchups are like because I think both teams have teams out there that if they meet them in the playoff the will lose to, but, my #1's in both conferences are Cleveland and Buffalo.

Oops, sorry. I meant Sacramento

I understand Buffalo; I have them as #2.

But Cleveland?  I guess I'll have to go re-examine their team.

EDIT:  Nope, still can't see it with Cleveland.  Five of their top six players were from lottery teams.  Right now, I have them on the cusp of the playoffs.

[The Walker Wiggle]

I have to agree with everything Roy said here.

Well we all agree about Pachulia. Armstong is terrible regardless of the system. And James Jones is a player I like a lot, he's also solid defensively and has an outside chance to start in Miami. But by his own admission, he's expecting to play with his wrist at 80% next season.

And it's at least worth mentioning that Stevenson played 30+ mpg, 82 games, for three full seasons prior to his back injury. I'd agree Richardson is a strong rebounder at his position, but he's also got conditioning issues, and shows bad shot selection.

In other news Jerry Zgoda has Q. being traded to his fifth team this offseason, possibly as early as the end of the week.