2009 Celticsblog Draft: Draft Thread

[Roy Hobbs]

* * * Attention * * *

This year's playoff seed voting will be conducted this Thursday (13th) and Friday (14th). 

The process is going to be a bit different than prior years.  Everybody (owners & non-owners) are eligible to cast one ballot each.  The ballot will be cast in a public thread and the ballot will be a ranking system of each conference's teams.  First of all, the top three seeds will be the 3 division winners following by the best remaining teams ranked from 4-15. 

The reason for the public ballot is to try and alleviate some of the voting "inconsistencies" seen in prior years where some teams were deliberately tanked by other team owners.  The hope with the public ballot is to show some accountability on your vote.

Here's an example of what the ballot will look like:

1. (Division Winner #1)
2. (Division Winner #2)
3. (Division Winner #3)
4. (Best remaining team)
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15. (Your lowest ranked team)

Only issue I have here is let's say I or another GM cast my votes publicly and some of the other owner's get ticked off that I didn't have their teams winning their division or I had them out of the playoffs, they take it out on my team or other GM's team to sway tamper that way, because they haven't cast their votes yet.  I already have my mind made up how I'm going to vote so it won't matter, but I wouldn't put it past anyone here, no offense, to do what I stated above.  That's why at least privately, if everyone is voting the way they should, nobody can do that. 

The problem is, last season people weren't voting as they should.  Good teams were being voted last in their division or conference, to hurt them in the voting.  This way, if something fishy is going on, the other members -- and potentially the Commish -- can call them on it.

[Rondo2287]

so that way scribbles if people vote you poorly because you rank them a little lower, they will be called out.  So i think its a good thing. 

And im hopeful that people wont let petty differences between GMs dictate the voting.  I know I wont. 

[Scribbles]

* * * Attention * * *

This year's playoff seed voting will be conducted this Thursday (13th) and Friday (14th). 

The process is going to be a bit different than prior years.  Everybody (owners & non-owners) are eligible to cast one ballot each.  The ballot will be cast in a public thread and the ballot will be a ranking system of each conference's teams.  First of all, the top three seeds will be the 3 division winners following by the best remaining teams ranked from 4-15. 

The reason for the public ballot is to try and alleviate some of the voting "inconsistencies" seen in prior years where some teams were deliberately tanked by other team owners.  The hope with the public ballot is to show some accountability on your vote.

Here's an example of what the ballot will look like:

1. (Division Winner #1)
2. (Division Winner #2)
3. (Division Winner #3)
4. (Best remaining team)
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15. (Your lowest ranked team)

Only issue I have here is let's say I or another GM cast my votes publicly and some of the other owner's get ticked off that I didn't have their teams winning their division or I had them out of the playoffs, they take it out on my team or other GM's team to sway tamper that way, because they haven't cast their votes yet.  I already have my mind made up how I'm going to vote so it won't matter, but I wouldn't put it past anyone here, no offense, to do what I stated above.  That's why at least privately, if everyone is voting the way they should, nobody can do that. 

The problem is, last season people weren't voting as they should.  Good teams were being voted last in their division or conference, to hurt them in the voting.  This way, if something fishy is going on, the other members -- and potentially the Commish -- can call them on it.

No doubt people were voting good teams in last, last year.  I'm fine with the public ballot so long as if anything what I said starts happening is called out, which it seems like it hopefully will!  I know I've seen people suggest they won't vote one way because of scrolling text, or they were arguing with another owner(I know some of the arguments were in good fun.)  As long as that's called out I'm down with the public ballot. 

[Kwhit10]

But what if by doing the public voting, you see that someone voted you lower than you thought you should be.  So due to that you decide to vote them lower then you had originally planned?

[KCattheStripe]

so that way scribbles if people vote you poorly because you rank them a little lower, they will be called out.  So i think its a good thing. 

And im hopeful that people wont let petty differences between GMs dictate the voting.  I know I wont. 

Except for the bulls.

[Rondo2287]

No system is perfect but say for instance

If somebody votes me behind Philly in the atlantic I can deal with it, even though I disagree.   If I get voted last i will probably have a feeling something is going on, at which point Im hopeful that Dons or the rest of the league will say something about that vote.  

But in the end, no system is perfect and I am alot more confident that peer pressure will make people vote appropriately than just hoping they will if it is a private vote. 

And on the bulls note, Im still undecided but i still have them at either first or second in their division.  If I were voting based our colorful history I wouldent vote him that high, but I assure JR and others I will be voting based on ability not personal experiences. 

[Roy Hobbs]

But what if by doing the public voting, you see that someone voted you lower than you thought you should be.  So due to that you decide to vote them lower then you had originally planned?

GMs that have integrity will judge opposing teams solely by how they objectively think they would do.  Bias shouldn't play a role.

[nickagneta]

I feel bad for saying this but why don't GM's PM their votes into the commish who after all voting deadlines have passed can then cut and paste the GM votes into the thread afterward and then votes can be counted.

1. It solves the public scrutiny of vote discrimination based on ill feelings or whatever. Everyone's vote will still be accessible only after the fact.

2. No GM gets to see how another GM voted beforehand so there can be no pre vote vendettas based on that.

3. It still allows non GM votes to be seen and posted.

4. Unfortunately, it's a lot of work for the commissioner.

[indeedproceed]

But what if by doing the public voting, you see that someone voted you lower than you thought you should be.  So due to that you decide to vote them lower then you had originally planned?

I guess its a "devil we know" as opposed to "the devil we don't"

Last year, for instance if RebusRankin and I had an ongoing thing and we both knew that down the middle it was 14 1st place votes for him, and 14 1st place votes for me, then the 2 of us, it would be a tie. Since I am a huge scumbag, and I know the voting is anonymous, I know Rebus thinks I'm a second place team, so he votes like I think he will, and I vote him last in the division, even though I know he's right there with me, whatever out individual opinions might be.

Since I voted him last, his average is slightly off, and I get #1, and he gets #2, even though it should have been a tie.

[Rondo2287]

Ya Nick it is a decent Idea but too much work.  I really think public accountability for your votes is enough to keep people honest.  And its alot less work for Dons. 

[indeedproceed]

I feel bad for saying this but why don't GM's PM their votes into the commish who after all voting deadlines have passed can then cut and paste the GM votes into the thread afterward and then votes can be counted.

1. It solves the public scrutiny of vote discrimination based on ill feelings or whatever. Everyone's vote will still be accessible only after the fact.

2. No GM gets to see how another GM voted beforehand so there can be no pre vote vendettas based on that.

3. It still allows non GM votes to be seen and posted.

4. Unfortunately, it's a lot of work for the commissioner.

Yeah that's asking a lot of Dons.

[nickagneta]

Another problem is East one day and West the next. If West people vote and an East owner feels he is being shortchanged by a west GM. There could be just enough of a lowering of his seed by the east GM vote to hurt a west teams playoff chances.

Of course, what I think is trying to be stopped is that perceived really good teams don't get screwed but by the same token there can be plenty of retaliation voting for the teams in the middle that could keep a team out of the playoffs.

For instance, my team I think will not come close to winning my division but should, IMHO, make the playoffs. But if I vote early and anger some of the teams I am in competition with, some or one GM could put my team down around 13th or so and that one vote could keep me out of the playoffs. And, my guess is someone could come up with enough BS explanations to rank any team 13th in the conference. So the vote would probably have to stand.

For that reason, I'm not voting until there's about 5 minutes left before the vote deadline. If people can't see my vote until just before the deadline, they can't let my vote influence their's in time.

[Rondo2287]

If people would like I can cast the first vote

[Roy Hobbs]

If people would like I can cast the first vote

I'll be casting my vote fairly early, too.  If other GMs are going to vote against Portland because I didn't like their team, that reflects more on them than it does me, Edgar, or the team we put together.

However, I trust the integrity of the other 29 (or so) GMs, so I'm not going to worry about gamesmanship and trying to wait until the very last minute to cast my vote.

[Donoghus]

Honestly guys,  I feel pretty confident that this public vote system will be pretty successful.  I know some are worried about bias.  I felt that a private vote would highlight those bias much more than a public vote. 

This hasn't been done before so it'll be an experiment but its something that I really want to try.  If it falls on its face, so be it.  However, I feel pretty confident that most GMs will provide their honest opinions with their ballots and I hope to minimize some of the bias that may arise.

In regards to some of those last minute voting suggestions, my workload is pretty crazy as it is right now with non-CB endeavors and after multiple weeks of trades and drafting, I really don't want to go through that amount of workload again.  I appreciate the suggestions, I just want to see how this public vote goes.