ESPN article says Powe > Davis, and its a mystery why he starts..

[Sweet17]

Hollinger is right. BBD has been a bad player for us.

It's ridiculous to call Hollinger a guy who only watches one game. He has been a pretty serious Celtic fan commenting on guys like Al Jefferson. His premise that Powe is better then BBD is right on. 

However even if we go with Doc's "floor spacing" strategy - Moore should be starting. He runs the floor better then BBD and shoots better then BBD. He finishes better then BBD. Yes his rebounding and shot blocking is not stellar - but its as good or better then BBD.

[TomHamilton30]

Hollinger is right. BBD has been a bad player for us.

It's ridiculous to call Hollinger a guy who only watches one game. He has been a pretty serious Celtic fan commenting on guys like Al Jefferson. His premise that Powe is better then BBD is right on. 

However even if we go with Doc's "floor spacing" strategy - Moore should be starting. He runs the floor better then BBD and shoots better then BBD. He finishes better then BBD. Yes his rebounding and shot blocking is not stellar - but its as good or better then BBD.

I was going to make the same point about Mikki, but keep in mind that he's there as a backup center to Perk.  If Mikki started then you'd see BBD as backup center, which unfortunately we've seen already with disastrous results.

[the_Bird]

I like Mikki, but the consensus before he came in was that he was inferior to both BBD and Powe, the one advantage that he had was that he was tall.  He's not a legit starter, and if he's any better than those two, it's marginal. 

Mikki's also been here what, a week?  They're not going to throw him out there for 30 minutes when he likely still only knows half the plays.

Just as important, that's a slap in the face of both BBD and Powe.  Even with the holes in their games, those two have busted tail to get to where they are.  They're also both guys that we're going to need to contribute at some point this season.  Starting Mikki Moore over them, when they've been here, they've put in the time, they've had some success, you're risking seriously p---ing off two of the guys that you're going to need.

If you're going to manage the egos on a ballclub, step one is not to needlessly p--- your guys off.  Doc's great at managing egos; he's not going to screw over two of his good soldiers.

[zerophase]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=hollingerceltics-090307

Even when Boston's physical play went too far -- like when Davis was ejected for a flagrant foul on Anderson Varejao early in the third quarter -- it worked out OK. Davis' ouster proved to be a blessing in disguise, as Powe came in and raised Boston's interior domination to another level. Truth be told, Powe has been the more effective player all season, and it's been something of a mystery that Davis, not Powe, has been the one to see more court time in Garnett's absence

Sorry, i fail at links if it doesnt work.

But i find it shocking and couldnt disagree more.  I love both guys, and having them both gives us options.  But i really think Davis has seperated himself as the player who has improved and is really playing better.

His defense is better.  His jumper is getting more consistant.  I can see him gaining confidence and in a year, his jumper will be money.  The great thing is he's not afraid of taking it now.  He has obviously toned up and trimmed down.

Am i in the minority here? Or is hollinger just making bad assumptions?

Baby has the mid-range jump shot which will stretch the defense. Powe and perkins both cannot shoot, period. therefore the paint is clogged if we start them both. Simple.

[ben]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=hollingerceltics-090307

Even when Boston's physical play went too far -- like when Davis was ejected for a flagrant foul on Anderson Varejao early in the third quarter -- it worked out OK. Davis' ouster proved to be a blessing in disguise, as Powe came in and raised Boston's interior domination to another level. Truth be told, Powe has been the more effective player all season, and it's been something of a mystery that Davis, not Powe, has been the one to see more court time in Garnett's absence

Sorry, i fail at links if it doesnt work.

But i find it shocking and couldnt disagree more.  I love both guys, and having them both gives us options.  But i really think Davis has seperated himself as the player who has improved and is really playing better.

His defense is better.  His jumper is getting more consistant.  I can see him gaining confidence and in a year, his jumper will be money.  The great thing is he's not afraid of taking it now.  He has obviously toned up and trimmed down.

Am i in the minority here? Or is hollinger just making bad assumptions?

Baby has the mid-range jump shot which will stretch the defense. Powe and perkins both cannot shoot, period. therefore the paint is clogged if we start them both. Simple.

Baby does not have a consistant jump shot yet.  Perkins and powe can shoot allright, its just not their job.  The paint getting clogged is a myth, Perkins and Powe played the entire fourth quarter against Dallas after Doc getting ejected.  Davis was sitting on the bench and that unit, rondo Powe perkins ray and pierce, dominated Dallas and it looked great.  there was no "clogging".  There is no evidence that Powe clogs the lane.  Powe is more effective than BBD.  Simple.

[TomHamilton30]

I'm not a believer that BBD has a solid/reliable jumpshot yet that's taken seriously by opposing teams.

BBD, as a PF and backup C, is shooting 43.6% for the season.  I'm speculating that his % around the hoop is close to 50%, which puts his jumpshot % in the category of "bad/awful". 

And that's just offensively.  I think the stats have somewhat revealed that the contribution of his defensive abilities is not what some optimistic people think.

[Brickowski]

I think people are overlooking BBD's defense and pick setting.  Both are valuable attributes.  As for the jumper and his shooting percentage generally, look at the last month only.

Offensively Powe is a one-trick pony.  It's a good trick and he performs it well.  It has its time and place.  I would also point out that Powe did start one game sice KG went down, and Leon did not distinguish himself in that role.

[nickagneta]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=hollingerceltics-090307

Even when Boston's physical play went too far -- like when Davis was ejected for a flagrant foul on Anderson Varejao early in the third quarter -- it worked out OK. Davis' ouster proved to be a blessing in disguise, as Powe came in and raised Boston's interior domination to another level. Truth be told, Powe has been the more effective player all season, and it's been something of a mystery that Davis, not Powe, has been the one to see more court time in Garnett's absence

Sorry, i fail at links if it doesnt work.

But i find it shocking and couldnt disagree more.  I love both guys, and having them both gives us options.  But i really think Davis has seperated himself as the player who has improved and is really playing better.

His defense is better.  His jumper is getting more consistant.  I can see him gaining confidence and in a year, his jumper will be money.  The great thing is he's not afraid of taking it now.  He has obviously toned up and trimmed down.

Am i in the minority here? Or is hollinger just making bad assumptions?

Baby has the mid-range jump shot which will stretch the defense. Powe and perkins both cannot shoot, period. therefore the paint is clogged if we start them both. Simple.

Baby does not have a consistant jump shot yet.  Perkins and powe can shoot allright, its just not their job.  The paint getting clogged is a myth, Perkins and Powe played the entire fourth quarter against Dallas after Doc getting ejected.  Davis was sitting on the bench and that unit, rondo Powe perkins ray and pierce, dominated Dallas and it looked great.  there was no "clogging".  There is no evidence that Powe clogs the lane.  Powe is more effective than BBD.  Simple.

Sorry but this is 100% wrong. Take a look at his last 10 games on NBA Hot Spots:

http://www.nba.com/hotspots/

He's 15 for 29 in his last 10 games from the 15'-23' range. I've been following this part of his game through Hot Spots for a while and I wish they would let you go back further than 10 games because he has been over 40% consistent from that range for close to 30-40 games now.

BBD now has a consistent jumper. Don't let his overall seasonal FG% or his seasonal eFG% for jump shots at 82games.com fool you. He was horrendous for the first 25 games of this year with that shot but since the beginning of January, it's been going down consistently.

[illantari]

Well, now Leon's going to HAVE to start with Baby probably being out.  Good thing we picked up Mikki, or we wouldn't have any backup bigs anymore.

[cordobes]

Sorry but this is 100% wrong. Take a look at his last 10 games on NBA Hot Spots:

http://www.nba.com/hotspots/

He's 15 for 29 in his last 10 games from the 15'-23' range. I've been following this part of his game through Hot Spots for a while and I wish they would let you go back further than 10 games because he has been over 40% consistent from that range for close to 30-40 games now.

BBD now has a consistent jumper. Don't let his overall seasonal FG% or his seasonal eFG% for jump shots at 82games.com fool you. He was horrendous for the first 25 games of this year with that shot but since the beginning of January, it's been going down consistently.

100% correct. He's no Kevin Garnett or even Malik Allen, but he's now comfortably on the Mikki Moore ballpark shooting those jumpers.

Till 2 months ago, Davis had shot 92 jump-shots, hitting 29 of them - a less than 30% eFG. In the last 2 months he took 90 of those jumpers and made 37 - that's a pretty decent 41FG%.

[expobear]

Well, now Leon's going to HAVE to start with Baby probably being out. 

Or Doc may go to a 3 guard offense instead. 

[TomHamilton30]

You're trying to make 15 for 29 seem like a big pool of data.  As a season, he's 43% overall (in the PF & C spot).  Personally, I don't classify his jump shot as consistent at this point.

But, the primary reason for Hollinger's stat conclusion has more to do with the defense of the team when BBD is on the court.  And with this, I vehemently agree with him.

[nickagneta]

You're trying to make 15 for 29 seem like a big pool of data.  As a season, he's 43% overall (in the PF & C spot).  Personally, I don't classify his jump shot as consistent at this point.

But, the primary reason for Hollinger's stat conclusion has more to do with the defense of the team when BBD is on the court.  And with this, I vehemently agree with him.

Yet another example of someone who either doesn't read the entire post or just refuses to listen to what I am saying.

I said over the last 2+ months he's shooting the outside shot consistently. I said ignore the seasonal FG% because it wasn't a good indicator of his current jumpshot(or at least intimated this).

The 15 for 29 is not a big enough number to judge by and even said I wish that Hot Shots would allow for longer views of that stat.

Cordobes(TP4U) just gave you his jump shooting number for his last 92 shots. That I believe, is a large enough indicator of how his shot is falling.

Also if you take his 2009 FG% of 87 for 183 he has been shooting at a very healthy and respectable(for a second year bench player) 47.5%. That so happens to be the exact shooting percentage for the year of Dirk Nowitzki and Kobe Bryant.

And let's remember, FG% is not always an indicator of whether a player is consistently hitting an outside shot or not. Remember Rondo's FG% is over 51% and I don't think anyone is foolish enough to believe that that makes him a good outside shooter or even a consistent one.

[cordobes]

You're trying to make 15 for 29 seem like a big pool of data.  As a season, he's 43% overall (in the PF & C spot).  Personally, I don't classify his jump shot as consistent at this point.

But, the primary reason for Hollinger's stat conclusion has more to do with the defense of the team when BBD is on the court.  And with this, I vehemently agree with him.

Well, it's a 180 jumpers sample and the tendency is pretty clear. We'll need to wait, but he's clearly much better, not missing right and left any more and getting a consistent release and follow-through. And we're talking exclusively about the jumpshot, not his overall shooting.

What I find amusing is your criticism of the small sample of his jumpers and simultaneously your agreement with Hollinger's about the team's defense when he's on the floor. Why isn't sample size important in that case?

[TomHamilton30]

Fair enough, I must have missed the portion of the 2+ months you were referring to.  He definitely has gotten better at it, and as a result I suspect opposing teams will begin to guard it more.  I'm still hesitant to look for him as an offensive option.

I was however pleased to see Hollinger's comment because it confirmed what my friends and I have been saying and seeing this whole year.  BBD tries hard, and to someone who doesn't have a keen eye for defensive rotations, it appears he's  valuable on defense.  Yet, his true value on the court (in mine and others' eyes) is subpar and below that of others who may be sitting on the bench. 

This has mainly bugged me this season because I dread the thought of the Celtic organization committing millions to BBD when I feel he's less valuable than perceived.  If he continued to be just another young guy with the contract he has now, then I welcome his hustle.