Davis vs. Powe: February poll

[Bankshot]

Against everybody but the superhuge centers, Leon is clearly the better player.  Baby, with his girth,  is sort of effective keeping the true giants farther out than they like to be, but there're only a couple of them in the whole league.

It's Powe.

Yes, but if you want to make it to the Finals, you'd likely have to beat a team with one of those big centers on it. And if you don't have anyone to match up with him, you don't win.  It's all about the championship.

[MattD]

Leon's older than Baby and been in the league a year longer.

Baby is two years younger than Leon...but Leon spent more than two years not playing competitive basketball while recovering from his ACL surgeries (I know he spent 16 months rehabbing in college, plus there was an earlier ACL injury in high school).  So I'm not sure the implied argument that Leon has had more time to develop his game is true.

Which isn't to say that Baby's overall ceiling may not be higher -- it's just to say that it may be just as likely that Leon develops a consistent 14-foot jumper as it is that Baby develops better as a rebounder.

[expobear]

Leon's older than Baby and been in the league a year longer.

Baby is two years younger than Leon...but Leon spent more than two years not playing competitive basketball while recovering from his ACL surgeries (I know he spent 16 months rehabbing in college, plus there was an earlier ACL injury in high school).  So I'm not sure the implied argument that Leon has had more time to develop his game is true.

Which isn't to say that Baby's overall ceiling may not be higher -- it's just to say that it may be just as likely that Leon develops a consistent 14-foot jumper as it is that Baby develops better as a rebounder.

If Powe ever develops a reasonable jumper, he could be a 20/10 guy for some team in the NBA.  Even if he doesn't shoot from outside 15 ft, Powe can still be a decent NBA player. 

[Redz]

Shall we start up a March POWE-ll?

[EJPLAYA]

Leon's older than Baby and been in the league a year longer.

Baby is two years younger than Leon...but Leon spent more than two years not playing competitive basketball while recovering from his ACL surgeries (I know he spent 16 months rehabbing in college, plus there was an earlier ACL injury in high school).  So I'm not sure the implied argument that Leon has had more time to develop his game is true.

Which isn't to say that Baby's overall ceiling may not be higher -- it's just to say that it may be just as likely that Leon develops a consistent 14-foot jumper as it is that Baby develops better as a rebounder.

Very good point. I don't think however there is a lot of potential in BBD's rebounding though. Being undersized and not being able to jump kind of kills that upside. He can get a little better based on experience, but it isn't going to improve much. Some people just have a knack for knowing where the ball is going like Powe does. It is easier to learn to shoot a wide open 14 footer than to develop a rebounding instinct.

[Chris]

Leon's older than Baby and been in the league a year longer.

Baby is two years younger than Leon...but Leon spent more than two years not playing competitive basketball while recovering from his ACL surgeries (I know he spent 16 months rehabbing in college, plus there was an earlier ACL injury in high school).  So I'm not sure the implied argument that Leon has had more time to develop his game is true.

Which isn't to say that Baby's overall ceiling may not be higher -- it's just to say that it may be just as likely that Leon develops a consistent 14-foot jumper as it is that Baby develops better as a rebounder.

Very good point. I don't think however there is a lot of potential in BBD's rebounding though. Being undersized and not being able to jump kind of kills that upside. He can get a little better based on experience, but it isn't going to improve much. Some people just have a knack for knowing where the ball is going like Powe does. It is easier to learn to shoot a wide open 14 footer than to develop a rebounding instinct.

Well, there is also the issues of passing and BBIQ. 

The fact is, these are two very different players, who bring very different skillsets to the table.  One is an explosive scorer and rebounder, while the other is a more heady "system guy" and position defender.  They both have spots in this league, and it all will come down to money, and who best compliments what the team needs.

[nickagneta]

Leon's older than Baby and been in the league a year longer.

Baby is two years younger than Leon...but Leon spent more than two years not playing competitive basketball while recovering from his ACL surgeries (I know he spent 16 months rehabbing in college, plus there was an earlier ACL injury in high school).  So I'm not sure the implied argument that Leon has had more time to develop his game is true.

Which isn't to say that Baby's overall ceiling may not be higher -- it's just to say that it may be just as likely that Leon develops a consistent 14-foot jumper as it is that Baby develops better as a rebounder.

But Leon has developed more physically than Davis because of his age and has played one more year of the highest quality basketball there is to play in this world. That was my point.

[Mencius]

Against everybody but the superhuge centers, Leon is clearly the better player.  Baby, with his girth,  is sort of effective keeping the true giants farther out than they like to be, but there're only a couple of them in the whole league.

It's Powe.

Yes, but if you want to make it to the Finals, you'd likely have to beat a team with one of those big centers on it. And if you don't have anyone to match up with him, you don't win.  It's all about the championship.

True, Bankshot.  I'm glad we have both of them, because situationally Baby is the better option against those behemoths.  Most of the time, though, Leon is just better, more productive.

[MattD]

...and has played one more year of the highest quality basketball there is to play in this world.

I'm not sure the team of Powe's first year qualified as that.

Also Tom Thibodeau joined the team for the start of Powe's 2nd year, Baby's rookie year, so he and Baby have had the same time under this defensive scheme; Powe has had more to unlearn.

All this said, I do like them both and root for them both.  When Baby was missing those jumpshots earlier in the year, I understood that the idea was to get him making them by the playoffs; when Powe struggled earlier in the year, I understood that he was adjusting to what the team asked of him.  Truthfully, neither guy is the absolute ideal first big man coming off the bench: if only we could graft their skillsets together somehow, and add a few inches of height while we're at it.

[Chris]

Also Tom Thibodeau joined the team for the start of Powe's 2nd year, Baby's rookie year, so he and Baby have had the same time under this defensive scheme; Powe has had more to unlearn.

The defensive scheme was the same before Thibodeau was here.  The problem was the players sucked, and Brown is nowhere close to as good a coach as Thibodeau is.  But Powe would have been learning the same system his rookie year as his sophomore year.

[EJPLAYA]

Leon's older than Baby and been in the league a year longer.

Baby is two years younger than Leon...but Leon spent more than two years not playing competitive basketball while recovering from his ACL surgeries (I know he spent 16 months rehabbing in college, plus there was an earlier ACL injury in high school).  So I'm not sure the implied argument that Leon has had more time to develop his game is true.

Which isn't to say that Baby's overall ceiling may not be higher -- it's just to say that it may be just as likely that Leon develops a consistent 14-foot jumper as it is that Baby develops better as a rebounder.

Very good point. I don't think however there is a lot of potential in BBD's rebounding though. Being undersized and not being able to jump kind of kills that upside. He can get a little better based on experience, but it isn't going to improve much. Some people just have a knack for knowing where the ball is going like Powe does. It is easier to learn to shoot a wide open 14 footer than to develop a rebounding instinct.

Well, there is also the issues of passing and BBIQ. 

The fact is, these are two very different players, who bring very different skillsets to the table.  One is an explosive scorer and rebounder, while the other is a more heady "system guy" and position defender.  They both have spots in this league, and it all will come down to money, and who best compliments what the team needs.

I find it funny how people rave on and on about BBD's alleged "basketball IQ" as being so much higher than Powe's. Why?! How do we dismiss the IQ needed to be in proper position to rebound at the rate that Powe does? How do we dismiss the IQ needed to create in the post and score on bigger players like Powe does? How do we dismiss the IQ needed to pick up the charges he does so often? Yes I will give you that BBD is a little better passer, however I don't know that I would call him a great passer. He has a better jumper at this point. He hustles. I am fine with having both of them on there and think they bring different things, however acting like Powe is some stupid guy out there who is nothing but a physical talent is absurd.

That wasn't even what we were discussing by the way. It was jumper vs. rebounding.

[Scalablob990]

After last night it was another hint for Danny to keep Powe this summer. Since KG went down who has been the most consistent big, Leon. I heavily doubt BBD would have tallied 23/13 last night against a decent playoff team. Powe played the entire game and was able to live with the 5th foul for quite a while, BBD or Perkins would have fouled out. If a game is on the line Powe shows up he showed that in the Lakers, Cleveland, Orlando, and the Heat games. Unfortunately we lost two 3/4 of those, but he wasn't the root of the problem in those losses.

[Eja117]

I don't blame people that think BBD is ultimately more talented and the better player, but I just plain like Powe better. I think he's physically and mentally tougher.  If I'm the other team BBD doesn't concern me as much even if he is "better"

[nickagneta]

After last night it was another hint for Danny to keep Powe this summer. Since KG went down who has been the most consistent big, Leon. I heavily doubt BBD would have tallied 23/13 last night against a decent playoff team. Powe played the entire game and was able to live with the 5th foul for quite a while, BBD or Perkins would have fouled out. If a game is on the line Powe shows up he showed that in the Lakers, Cleveland, Orlando, and the Heat games. Unfortunately we lost two 3/4 of those, but he wasn't the root of the problem in those losses.

How soon we forget!!

In the 7 games prior to getting hurt while starting in place of KG Big Baby Davis had the following averages:

27.5 MPG
12 PPG
2 APG
4 RPG
.7 SPG
34-60 FGM-FGA
57% FG%

He also had an 18 point, 6 rebound, 3 assist, 1 TO 7-13 game against Detroit and a 10 point game against Cleveland in just 17 minutes. I don't think that's all that bad for a second year, second rounder filling in the shoes of a top 15 player All-Time who goes down with an injury.

Powe had a great game last night but let's not diminish what BBD brought to the table for this team. They are, after all, both Celtics.

[expobear]

Leon's older than Baby and been in the league a year longer.

Baby is two years younger than Leon...but Leon spent more than two years not playing competitive basketball while recovering from his ACL surgeries (I know he spent 16 months rehabbing in college, plus there was an earlier ACL injury in high school).  So I'm not sure the implied argument that Leon has had more time to develop his game is true.

Which isn't to say that Baby's overall ceiling may not be higher -- it's just to say that it may be just as likely that Leon develops a consistent 14-foot jumper as it is that Baby develops better as a rebounder.

Very good point. I don't think however there is a lot of potential in BBD's rebounding though. Being undersized and not being able to jump kind of kills that upside. He can get a little better based on experience, but it isn't going to improve much. Some people just have a knack for knowing where the ball is going like Powe does. It is easier to learn to shoot a wide open 14 footer than to develop a rebounding instinct.

Well, there is also the issues of passing and BBIQ. 

The fact is, these are two very different players, who bring very different skillsets to the table.  One is an explosive scorer and rebounder, while the other is a more heady "system guy" and position defender.  They both have spots in this league, and it all will come down to money, and who best compliments what the team needs.

I find it funny how people rave on and on about BBD's alleged "basketball IQ" as being so much higher than Powe's. Why?! How do we dismiss the IQ needed to be in proper position to rebound at the rate that Powe does? How do we dismiss the IQ needed to create in the post and score on bigger players like Powe does? How do we dismiss the IQ needed to pick up the charges he does so often? Yes I will give you that BBD is a little better passer, however I don't know that I would call him a great passer. He has a better jumper at this point. He hustles. I am fine with having both of them on there and think they bring different things, however acting like Powe is some stupid guy out there who is nothing but a physical talent is absurd.

That wasn't even what we were discussing by the way. It was jumper vs. rebounding.

Nice post and TP for you, Playa!

Anybody that can go for 23/13 without a jumper and a height disadvantage inside must be doing something right and I would attribute this to Powe's basketball smarts and intense desire.