Davis vs. Powe: February poll

[Casperian]

I find it funny how people rave on and on about BBD's alleged "basketball IQ" as being so much higher than Powe's. Why?! How do we dismiss the IQ needed to be in proper position to rebound at the rate that Powe does? How do we dismiss the IQ needed to create in the post and score on bigger players like Powe does? How do we dismiss the IQ needed to pick up the charges he does so often? Yes I will give you that BBD is a little better passer, however I don't know that I would call him a great passer. He has a better jumper at this point. He hustles. I am fine with having both of them on there and think they bring different things, however acting like Powe is some stupid guy out there who is nothing but a physical talent is absurd.

That wasn't even what we were discussing by the way. It was jumper vs. rebounding.

Why "versus"?
Baby`s not a weak rebounder, either. IIRC, that´s pretty much the only reason why he played last season.
He had several 5+ OR games in limited minutes. He just has a different role this year, and plays farther away from the basket (a role he never played in the last 5 years) alongside great rebounders who do play under the basket.
I think less rebounds were to be expected.

He's a weak defensive rebounder for a center or power forward. He's a good offensive rebounder at either postion though. Overall this still leaves him as below average. He's just too short without the hops to be a good defensive rebounder. He does a good job boxing out though.

Well, Offensive Rebounds are the important ones, imho.
Most Defensive Rebounds go to the guy who stands closest to where the ball falls, in fact we try to give Rondo some Defensive Rebounds per game so that he can start the fastbreak immediately. You are supposed to get the DR, but an OR is an additional ball posession.

We have an excellent rebounding team. Perk, KG, Pierce and Rondo are all good to exceptional Rebounders at their respective position, Ray is also a smart Rebounder. Powe`s qualities as a D-Rebounder only add to what we already have in abundance. I think Baby`s jumper is more valuable to the team than Powe`s advantage as a Rebounder

[EJPLAYA]

That's a fair discussion, however the discussion of "who is better" is important as well for a couple reasons. One is that when Scal comes back, there is going to be less time for one or both of them. Maybe we argue that Scal won't see minutes when he returns, but he was playing very well before the injuries also. The second thing is that it is very unlikely that we will end up being able to keep both of them this offseason and we should be discussing which one we feel should be kept. It's nice that it is a discussion though. At least we have some options...

I think Scal sees more minutes on the wing (IF he returns), and only really plays PF against certain matchups (like Orlando).

I would agree with that, however that is part of our problem in the offseason that we will face. No one on here thinks that Scal should be playing SF much. He just isn't equipped to do it that well. He plays solid defense against the PF spot, and stretches the floor with his shooting, so PF really is his best spot. If we kept Powe who can play the 4 and 5 spots, and let Scal be Powe's backup at the 4 spot and Mikki his backup at the 5 then we could go after a true backup SF. THAT IMO is the hole in our depth. Scal, BBD, and Powe are nice when we have injury issues, (Scary that two of the three + KG are injured right now)but not a luxury we can afford most of the time. We need a true SF backup pickup in the offseason. Hopefully we can do a sign and trade with BBD and TA and get one this coming offseason. That would make a big difference to our team. 

I disagree completely.  I think if Scal is healthy, he is an excellent option to play 6-8 minutes per game (which is all you need) at SF.

Regardless of his lateral quickness (which I think is much better than some people give him credit for), he is tremendous at keeping players in front of him.  As long as you have him out there with a guy like Rondo or Marbury who can penetrate, and create shots for others, I think Scal is a great fit at SF...especially given the C's defensive scheme which is based on position and help defense.

I am as big a Scal fan as there is on here and have been throughout it all, but sorry Scal is not what you would PREFER at SF. He has enough BBALL IQ to play any position, or at least give a valiant effort, but if you want the most from him he needs to be guarding guys like Amare, etc. Remember what Grant Hill did to him out there?! Quicker SF's give him lots of trouble. If we are being picky, he is more fitted to guard a center than a SF.

[EJPLAYA]

I find it funny how people rave on and on about BBD's alleged "basketball IQ" as being so much higher than Powe's. Why?! How do we dismiss the IQ needed to be in proper position to rebound at the rate that Powe does? How do we dismiss the IQ needed to create in the post and score on bigger players like Powe does? How do we dismiss the IQ needed to pick up the charges he does so often? Yes I will give you that BBD is a little better passer, however I don't know that I would call him a great passer. He has a better jumper at this point. He hustles. I am fine with having both of them on there and think they bring different things, however acting like Powe is some stupid guy out there who is nothing but a physical talent is absurd.

That wasn't even what we were discussing by the way. It was jumper vs. rebounding.

Why "versus"?
Baby`s not a weak rebounder, either. IIRC, that´s pretty much the only reason why he played last season.
He had several 5+ OR games in limited minutes. He just has a different role this year, and plays farther away from the basket (a role he never played in the last 5 years) alongside great rebounders who do play under the basket.
I think less rebounds were to be expected.

Yes. BBD is a weak rebounder period. Stats actually show he has a higher rebounding % defensively than offensively. Powe's stats are about 50% better in similar minutes than BBD's at both ends of the floor rebounding the ball. The guy is short and can't jump. Considering the fact that he is quite large, it's amazing he can get any rebounds at all...

[Chris]

That's a fair discussion, however the discussion of "who is better" is important as well for a couple reasons. One is that when Scal comes back, there is going to be less time for one or both of them. Maybe we argue that Scal won't see minutes when he returns, but he was playing very well before the injuries also. The second thing is that it is very unlikely that we will end up being able to keep both of them this offseason and we should be discussing which one we feel should be kept. It's nice that it is a discussion though. At least we have some options...

I think Scal sees more minutes on the wing (IF he returns), and only really plays PF against certain matchups (like Orlando).

I would agree with that, however that is part of our problem in the offseason that we will face. No one on here thinks that Scal should be playing SF much. He just isn't equipped to do it that well. He plays solid defense against the PF spot, and stretches the floor with his shooting, so PF really is his best spot. If we kept Powe who can play the 4 and 5 spots, and let Scal be Powe's backup at the 4 spot and Mikki his backup at the 5 then we could go after a true backup SF. THAT IMO is the hole in our depth. Scal, BBD, and Powe are nice when we have injury issues, (Scary that two of the three + KG are injured right now)but not a luxury we can afford most of the time. We need a true SF backup pickup in the offseason. Hopefully we can do a sign and trade with BBD and TA and get one this coming offseason. That would make a big difference to our team. 

I disagree completely.  I think if Scal is healthy, he is an excellent option to play 6-8 minutes per game (which is all you need) at SF.

Regardless of his lateral quickness (which I think is much better than some people give him credit for), he is tremendous at keeping players in front of him.  As long as you have him out there with a guy like Rondo or Marbury who can penetrate, and create shots for others, I think Scal is a great fit at SF...especially given the C's defensive scheme which is based on position and help defense.

I am as big a Scal fan as there is on here and have been throughout it all, but sorry Scal is not what you would PREFER at SF. He has enough BBALL IQ to play any position, or at least give a valiant effort, but if you want the most from him he needs to be guarding guys like Amare, etc. Remember what Grant Hill did to him out there?! Quicker SF's give him lots of trouble. If we are being picky, he is more fitted to guard a center than a SF.

OK, I would prefer to have Posey, or Shane Battier.  But since that is an option, I think Scal is more than suffient.  Especially against the guys the C's will likely be facing at that position later in the playoffs.  Scal can cover Turkuglu just fine, and he actually is not a bad fit to play a few minutes against Lebron, since the C's will be scheming against him, Scal just really needs to maintain proper defensive positioning, use his hands to make Lebron uncomfortable, and hope that the big men are doing their job.

[EJPLAYA]

That's a fair discussion, however the discussion of "who is better" is important as well for a couple reasons. One is that when Scal comes back, there is going to be less time for one or both of them. Maybe we argue that Scal won't see minutes when he returns, but he was playing very well before the injuries also. The second thing is that it is very unlikely that we will end up being able to keep both of them this offseason and we should be discussing which one we feel should be kept. It's nice that it is a discussion though. At least we have some options...

I think Scal sees more minutes on the wing (IF he returns), and only really plays PF against certain matchups (like Orlando).

I would agree with that, however that is part of our problem in the offseason that we will face. No one on here thinks that Scal should be playing SF much. He just isn't equipped to do it that well. He plays solid defense against the PF spot, and stretches the floor with his shooting, so PF really is his best spot. If we kept Powe who can play the 4 and 5 spots, and let Scal be Powe's backup at the 4 spot and Mikki his backup at the 5 then we could go after a true backup SF. THAT IMO is the hole in our depth. Scal, BBD, and Powe are nice when we have injury issues, (Scary that two of the three + KG are injured right now)but not a luxury we can afford most of the time. We need a true SF backup pickup in the offseason. Hopefully we can do a sign and trade with BBD and TA and get one this coming offseason. That would make a big difference to our team. 

I disagree completely.  I think if Scal is healthy, he is an excellent option to play 6-8 minutes per game (which is all you need) at SF.

Regardless of his lateral quickness (which I think is much better than some people give him credit for), he is tremendous at keeping players in front of him.  As long as you have him out there with a guy like Rondo or Marbury who can penetrate, and create shots for others, I think Scal is a great fit at SF...especially given the C's defensive scheme which is based on position and help defense.

I am as big a Scal fan as there is on here and have been throughout it all, but sorry Scal is not what you would PREFER at SF. He has enough BBALL IQ to play any position, or at least give a valiant effort, but if you want the most from him he needs to be guarding guys like Amare, etc. Remember what Grant Hill did to him out there?! Quicker SF's give him lots of trouble. If we are being picky, he is more fitted to guard a center than a SF.

OK, I would prefer to have Posey, or Shane Battier.  But since that is an option, I think Scal is more than suffient.  Especially against the guys the C's will likely be facing at that position later in the playoffs.  Scal can cover Turkuglu just fine, and he actually is not a bad fit to play a few minutes against Lebron, since the C's will be scheming against him, Scal just really needs to maintain proper defensive positioning, use his hands to make Lebron uncomfortable, and hope that the big men are doing their job.

I don't disagree with this at all based on what we currently have on the team, however all the comments I made were based on what to do in the offseason. I don't think anyone wants the backup SF going into next year to be Scal. If that means losing BBD then that's what needs to happen.

[Edgar]

Cough Cough

isnt it time to start the march poll?

Cough  Cough

[Chris]

That's a fair discussion, however the discussion of "who is better" is important as well for a couple reasons. One is that when Scal comes back, there is going to be less time for one or both of them. Maybe we argue that Scal won't see minutes when he returns, but he was playing very well before the injuries also. The second thing is that it is very unlikely that we will end up being able to keep both of them this offseason and we should be discussing which one we feel should be kept. It's nice that it is a discussion though. At least we have some options...

I think Scal sees more minutes on the wing (IF he returns), and only really plays PF against certain matchups (like Orlando).

I would agree with that, however that is part of our problem in the offseason that we will face. No one on here thinks that Scal should be playing SF much. He just isn't equipped to do it that well. He plays solid defense against the PF spot, and stretches the floor with his shooting, so PF really is his best spot. If we kept Powe who can play the 4 and 5 spots, and let Scal be Powe's backup at the 4 spot and Mikki his backup at the 5 then we could go after a true backup SF. THAT IMO is the hole in our depth. Scal, BBD, and Powe are nice when we have injury issues, (Scary that two of the three + KG are injured right now)but not a luxury we can afford most of the time. We need a true SF backup pickup in the offseason. Hopefully we can do a sign and trade with BBD and TA and get one this coming offseason. That would make a big difference to our team. 

I disagree completely.  I think if Scal is healthy, he is an excellent option to play 6-8 minutes per game (which is all you need) at SF.

Regardless of his lateral quickness (which I think is much better than some people give him credit for), he is tremendous at keeping players in front of him.  As long as you have him out there with a guy like Rondo or Marbury who can penetrate, and create shots for others, I think Scal is a great fit at SF...especially given the C's defensive scheme which is based on position and help defense.

I am as big a Scal fan as there is on here and have been throughout it all, but sorry Scal is not what you would PREFER at SF. He has enough BBALL IQ to play any position, or at least give a valiant effort, but if you want the most from him he needs to be guarding guys like Amare, etc. Remember what Grant Hill did to him out there?! Quicker SF's give him lots of trouble. If we are being picky, he is more fitted to guard a center than a SF.

OK, I would prefer to have Posey, or Shane Battier.  But since that is an option, I think Scal is more than suffient.  Especially against the guys the C's will likely be facing at that position later in the playoffs.  Scal can cover Turkuglu just fine, and he actually is not a bad fit to play a few minutes against Lebron, since the C's will be scheming against him, Scal just really needs to maintain proper defensive positioning, use his hands to make Lebron uncomfortable, and hope that the big men are doing their job.

I don't disagree with this at all based on what we currently have on the team, however all the comments I made were based on what to do in the offseason. I don't think anyone wants the backup SF going into next year to be Scal. If that means losing BBD then that's what needs to happen.

Ah, right.  Well, next year I would hope they either plan to have Walker take over as the backup SF (with Scal as insurance), or get a veteran FA, if they don't think (based on his performance the rest of this season) Walker can do the job.

In general next year, I expect Davis or Powe to be gone (its mostly going to depend on money demands, and what kind of market is out there), and I expect them to use the MLE (or as much of it as they are willing to spend) on a veteran big man like Wallace, Zaza, or Joe Smith, who brings some of what Powe and/Davis brought, but also provides them with more size.  And then use the vet minimum, the draft, young guys they already have (Walker, Giddens, Pruitt) and minor trades to fill the other holes.

[EJPLAYA]

As much as I think BBD has picked up his game lately prior to getting injured, he just can't do what Powe does for us. He might have a scoring night like Powe did every once in a great while, but who out there doesn't think that given the touches offensively that Powe is going to do it more often than not?! The tough part is that if he keeps this up he will all but assure a pretty big contract that will prevent us from keeping both.

The man is a stud and deserves it. What a hard working guy with a huge amount of heart. For his size he has to be one of the best rebounders out there in a long time. He just has a nose for the ball. Keep it up big guy!

[expobear]

As much as I think BBD has picked up his game lately prior to getting injured, he just can't do what Powe does for us. He might have a scoring night like Powe did every once in a great while, but who out there doesn't think that given the touches offensively that Powe is going to do it more often than not. The tough part is that if he keeps this up he will all but assure a pretty big contract that will prevent us from keeping both.

The man is a stud and deserves it. What a hard working guy with a huge amount of heart. For his size he has to be one of the best rebounders out there in a long time. He just has a nose for the ball. Keep it up big guy!

I'm not at all surprised at what Powe is doing. He just needed the playing time and the trust of the coaches to just let him play. Rivers had no choice but to leave Powe in the last few games and thus, Powe is playing with more confidence, knowing that he won't get pulled for a mistake. I've said on the board that Powe could be a serviceable NBA player who could be a 15/8 guy on the right team. Hell, he might be a 20/10 guy on the right team. I might have underestimated Powe myself!   

Here's to BillfromBoston for being right on target about Powe.

[ben]

I wish I could vote for powe more than once.

[TheShowPowe]

Here is a more accurate poll of the same question. Ha I think it might be a little bias though.

http://leonpowe.blogspot.com/

[WedmanIsMyHero]

What incredible performances by Powe!  But no surprise to those of us that have backed Leon from the start (I do not post that often, but check out my past posts if you want verification).  If the guy who founded leonpowe.blogspot.com hadn't founded it, I might have!

But this is not that surprising.  If you have followed Hollinger's comments about him on ESPN.com over the last few years, focusing on his player efficiency ratings, and if you watched Powe play in college, you knew that he could perform like this given the minutes.

I think Powe doesn't get credit since he doesn't seem to "look" like he should be as good as he is. . .

So even if all the BBD and Scal backers out there still think those guys are better. . .can they at least admit that Powe has been incredible the last few games?  What are the chances BBD will ever put together a 3 game stretch like the one Powe has put together?

[expobear]

What incredible performances by Powe!  But no surprise to those of us that have backed Leon from the start (I do not post that often, but check out my past posts if you want verification).  If the guy who founded leonpowe.blogspot.com hadn't founded it, I might have!

But this is not that surprising.  If you have followed Hollinger's comments about him on ESPN.com over the last few years, focusing on his player efficiency ratings, and if you watched Powe play in college, you knew that he could perform like this given the minutes.

I think Powe doesn't get credit since he doesn't seem to "look" like he should be as good as he is. . .

So even if all the BBD and Scal backers out there still think those guys are better. . .can they at least admit that Powe has been incredible the last few games?  What are the chances BBD will ever put together a 3 game stretch like the one Powe has put together?

That's a TP! 

[BillfromBoston]

I think its important to remember that the purpose of all these arguments was in support of the hypothetical need to choose one player over the other - its not an indictment of either player.

That being said, Davis' injury couldn't have happened at a more inopportune time for him as he was playing at a high level and splitting minutes with Powe.

The financials will still play a part in this situation and I can see both staying potentially, but i'd prefer to simply sign a situational backup center and allow Leon to roam free in a 3 big man rotation with KG and Perk - to me, having one productive bench big is better than having 2 if you're only going to get a portion of their capability out of them.

Regardless, Powe still needs to get to the point where he uses his set jumper as part of his offensive arsenal - he has one, shows it in practice and pre-game - but right now he is like Perk in that his principle responsibility in this offense is to play around the basket and that makes him hesitate whenever a "smart jump shot" op comes along.

In time, I believe his face up game - as well as Perks - will utilize the jump shot as a threat and both will take the next step and be truly complete players...if Powe can get his J to Haslem/PJ level, he'll be a starter on this team by the time KG's deal is up.

[housecall]

As much as i like both players,the team needs and will need length in the future for those positions.In order to compete with the top tier teams like the Lakers,Cavs,Hawks,etc.we need players taller than 6'7"or so.Playing aganist scrub teams like the today's Griz,Thunder,Minny(minus Big Al),we look good in the paint,but when you are looking to go deep into the playoff yr.after yr.,athletic bigs are a requirement for the future.