Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[Neurotic Guy]

I wanted a coaching change at the end of last year and I understand and agree with the criticisms - specifically, the live by the 3 philosophy and the let them play through it philosophy (no timeouts).  Yes, those things are frustrating.  But the idea that he is so glaringly incompetent and needs to be fired immediately clearly ignores that the team is 12-4 and that the last 4 games, as ugly as they've been (the 2 minute Bucks comeback as the ugly part of that game) all came with sick and missing players, on the road (except the win v. Bucks), and with one of the losses (in OT) the second night of a road back to back.   And... they are still 12-4 - #1 in the East and a half-game behind the leader in the West (one of the C's losses - in OT on the road) for the best record in the NBA.     

It also ignores that IF he is actually glaringly incompetent that Brad Stevens apparently somehow doesn't notice this.   It couldn't be because Brad is afraid to make a move -- unless you ignore Brad's willingness to trade Smart and Rob as indicators that the man will make moves that need to be made.   Or maybe you accept the other possibility... that Brad is also incompetent.   Logic -- if Joe is incompetent and it is obvious then how in the world isn't it obvious to Brad Stevens - the man who coached this team for years, lives basketball, lives (has lived) coaching, and sees and interacts directly with Joe, his staff, players every day.  A guy who appears to be incredibly sharp.   Sorry -- I'm going with Brad on this over me and over all of you - if Brad doesn't see him as incompetent, he probably isn't. 

[Phantom255x]

Are the assistants actually helping him? Or is Cassell lowkey hoping he gets fired so he can take over 

Either way, Mazzulla has not looked good in some of these losses. Like they are 12-4, but I'd argue in about 3 of the losses Mazzulla didn't look good with the lack of adjustments, proper timeouts, late game decisions, etc. That's not ideal especially since when you go deeper into the playoffs, this stuff matters. Look at last year.

[Roy H.]

I wanted a coaching change at the end of last year and I understand and agree with the criticisms - specifically, the live by the 3 philosophy and the let them play through it philosophy (no timeouts).  Yes, those things are frustrating.  But the idea that he is so glaringly incompetent and needs to be fired immediately clearly ignores that the team is 12-4 and that the last 4 games, as ugly as they've been (the 2 minute Bucks comeback as the ugly part of that game) all came with sick and missing players, on the road (except the win v. Bucks), and with one of the losses (in OT) the second night of a road back to back.   And... they are still 12-4 - #1 in the East and a half-game behind the leader in the West (one of the C's losses - in OT on the road) for the best record in the NBA.     

It also ignores that IF he is actually glaringly incompetent that Brad Stevens apparently somehow doesn't notice this.   It couldn't be because Brad is afraid to make a move -- unless you ignore Brad's willingness to trade Smart and Rob as indicators that the man will make moves that need to be made.   Or maybe you accept the other possibility... that Brad is also incompetent.   Logic -- if Joe is incompetent and it is obvious then how in the world isn't it obvious to Brad Stevens - the man who coached this team for years, lives basketball, lives (has lived) coaching, and sees and interacts directly with Joe, his staff, players every day.  A guy who appears to be incredibly sharp.   Sorry -- I'm going with Brad on this over me and over all of you - if Brad doesn't see him as incompetent, he probably isn't.

I generally don't like the "in _______ I trust" mindset.  Brad has blind spots and shortcomings.  The same guy you trust is the GM that didn't fill multiple assistant coaching positions last year, for instance.  And, to hear Wyc tell it, breaking up last year's team was his idea, not Brad's.

Brad also thought that Vonleh and Jackson were worth roster spots last year, and Banton and Brissett were the top targets he landed this year.  Not every Brad Stevens opinion is a good one.

Basically, even good decision makers get it wrong sometimes.  I'd say trust your own observations rather than trusting authority.

[Rikibellevie]

Joe isn t incompetent of course but he is dogmatic. It is a big problem for the PO. For such a young and inexpérimented coach it is a bad sign.
 Now he has  the players he wanted to play all for 3. He has to succeed in the PO.  But he still plays big minutes our core, like if he has something to proove, to make a great regular season start -like last year for the shortmemories-. I fear the same dogmatic issues and the same PO ending with inconstence, bad choices, players exhausted or hurt when it count because he played them too much, to show on Washburn clic that he is the truth.

Last year Nurse was an obvious target, with a non dogmatic game. I Don t think Philly will regret Doc, I hope we wont regret it.

[Kernewek]

Are the assistants actually helping him? Or is Cassell lowkey hoping he gets fired so he can take over 

Either way, Mazzulla has not looked good in some of these losses. Like they are 12-4, but I'd argue in about 3 of the losses Mazzulla didn't look good with the lack of adjustments, proper timeouts, late game decisions, etc. That's not ideal especially since when you go deeper into the playoffs, this stuff matters. Look at last year.

I think last year Mazz had much more rope - now that he’s had a full offseason, full run of the coaching staff, so on so forth it’s much more reasonable to be critical of his coaching this season because the extenuating circumstances have been, by and large, resolved.

But, given that it’s early in the season and we’re winning, much more than we’re losing, I think it’s also more reasonable to find
the whingeing - and a not-insignificant amount of it is just whingeing - tiresome.

[Phantom255x]

Are the assistants actually helping him? Or is Cassell lowkey hoping he gets fired so he can take over 

Either way, Mazzulla has not looked good in some of these losses. Like they are 12-4, but I'd argue in about 3 of the losses Mazzulla didn't look good with the lack of adjustments, proper timeouts, late game decisions, etc. That's not ideal especially since when you go deeper into the playoffs, this stuff matters. Look at last year.

I think last year Mazz had much more rope - now that he’s had a full offseason, full run of the coaching staff, so on so forth it’s much more reasonable to be critical of his coaching this season because the extenuating circumstances have been, by and large, resolved.

But, given that it’s early in the season and we’re winning, much more than we’re losing, I think it’s also more reasonable to find
the whingeing - and a not-insignificant amount of it is just whingeing - tiresome.

We'll see. It's just in the playoffs, we are going to go up against great teams who will have great coaches (Spo, Nick Nurse, maybe Malone or Vogel in the Finals). Coaches who have legit experience and are great at adjustments and "buy-in". Something Mazzulla clearly lacked last season especially the Heat series. So the jury is still a little out. I hope he succeeds, but idk. Sixers had Doc Rivers who chokes a lot, now they don't + I think they got better and are probably the 2nd best in the East now.

[SHAQATTACK]

Turn the page .

[SHAQATTACK]

Yes, 14 games in but I'm fast approaching the Fire Joe realm!

I'm in the "let the playoffs define him" camp.

That will be his Waterloo

[tenn_smoothie]

It's infuriating that Brad & Wyc are allowing another season within our current title-contending window to go by because of whatever irrational reason they had for keeping Mazzulla as head coach, especially given all the work that has been put in building the right roster.

[Yuckabuck33]

1. It seems Joe, like Doc Rivers, prefers stars and rookies (and his teams choke like Dc Rivers too).
2. The timeout issue- the studies can't say which is better because every timeout is different. Joe doesn't often seem to have quality timeouts. A lot of us believe that timeouts are important because we have watched great coaches affect the game with a timeout.  Whereas Joe's timeouts suck and the team plays the exact same way afterwards.

[Kuberski33]

1. It seems Joe, like Doc Rivers, prefers stars and rookies (and his teams choke like Dc Rivers too).
2. The timeout issue- the studies can't say which is better because every timeout is different. Joe doesn't often seem to have quality timeouts. A lot of us believe that timeouts are important because we have watched great coaches affect the game with a timeout.  Whereas Joe's timeouts suck and the team plays the exact same way afterwards.

The main purpose of timeouts is stop runs, since basketball - especially at this level - is such a momentum game.  That's totally lost on Joe who, not surprisingly, never played in the NBA.

They don't always work - but you have a better chance of slowing the other team down calling a TO vs not and letting a run continue - especially when you're playing on the road.

[Yuckabuck33]

1. It seems Joe, like Doc Rivers, prefers stars and rookies (and his teams choke like Dc Rivers too).
2. The timeout issue- the studies can't say which is better because every timeout is different. Joe doesn't often seem to have quality timeouts. A lot of us believe that timeouts are important because we have watched great coaches affect the game with a timeout.  Whereas Joe's timeouts suck and the team plays the exact same way afterwards.

The main purpose of timeouts is stop runs, since basketball - especially at this level - is such a momentum game.  That's totally lost on Joe who, not surprisingly, never played in the NBA.

They don't always work - but you have a better chance of slowing the other team down calling a TO vs not and letting a run continue - especially when you're playing on the road.

The question is HOW do timeouts stop runs? Gove your team a breather and help them regroup? Distract the other team and ice them? Make an adjustment or substitution that turns the tide?
Joe can't or won't do any of these things.

[mobilija]

1. It seems Joe, like Doc Rivers, prefers stars and rookies (and his teams choke like Dc Rivers too).
2. The timeout issue- the studies can't say which is better because every timeout is different. Joe doesn't often seem to have quality timeouts. A lot of us believe that timeouts are important because we have watched great coaches affect the game with a timeout.  Whereas Joe's timeouts suck and the team plays the exact same way afterwards.

The main purpose of timeouts is stop runs, since basketball - especially at this level - is such a momentum game.  That's totally lost on Joe who, not surprisingly, never played in the NBA.

They don't always work - but you have a better chance of slowing the other team down calling a TO vs not and letting a run continue - especially when you're playing on the road.

The question is HOW do timeouts stop runs? Gove your team a breather and help them regroup? Distract the other team and ice them? Make an adjustment or substitution that turns the tide?
Joe can't or won't do any of these things.

Mid/End of 3rd qtr Atlanta gets back into the game basically because of bonehead plays from our stars (JB turnover, JT turnover and subsequent clear path foul, etc) and letting Atl take uncontested 3s. Joe then called a timeout.  Players came out w more focused offensive execution and better defense on the 3pt line, Atlanta never got closer (but still kept it within striking distance). Is that what you guys mean?

[Yuckabuck33]

1. It seems Joe, like Doc Rivers, prefers stars and rookies (and his teams choke like Dc Rivers too).
2. The timeout issue- the studies can't say which is better because every timeout is different. Joe doesn't often seem to have quality timeouts. A lot of us believe that timeouts are important because we have watched great coaches affect the game with a timeout.  Whereas Joe's timeouts suck and the team plays the exact same way afterwards.

The main purpose of timeouts is stop runs, since basketball - especially at this level - is such a momentum game.  That's totally lost on Joe who, not surprisingly, never played in the NBA.

They don't always work - but you have a better chance of slowing the other team down calling a TO vs not and letting a run continue - especially when you're playing on the road.

The question is HOW do timeouts stop runs? Gove your team a breather and help them regroup? Distract the other team and ice them? Make an adjustment or substitution that turns the tide?
Joe can't or won't do any of these things.

Mid/End of 3rd qtr Atlanta gets back into the game basically because of bonehead plays from our stars (JB turnover, JT turnover and subsequent clear path foul, etc) and letting Atl take uncontested 3s. Joe then called a timeout.  Players came out w more focused offensive execution and better defense on the 3pt line, Atlanta never got closer (but still kept it within striking distance). Is that what you guys mean?

Yes, that is what we are talking about.  I will have to go back and watch the 3rd quarter.

[Goldstar88]

1. It seems Joe, like Doc Rivers, prefers stars and rookies (and his teams choke like Dc Rivers too).
2. The timeout issue- the studies can't say which is better because every timeout is different. Joe doesn't often seem to have quality timeouts. A lot of us believe that timeouts are important because we have watched great coaches affect the game with a timeout.  Whereas Joe's timeouts suck and the team plays the exact same way afterwards.

The main purpose of timeouts is stop runs, since basketball - especially at this level - is such a momentum game.  That's totally lost on Joe who, not surprisingly, never played in the NBA.

They don't always work - but you have a better chance of slowing the other team down calling a TO vs not and letting a run continue - especially when you're playing on the road.

The question is HOW do timeouts stop runs? Gove your team a breather and help them regroup? Distract the other team and ice them? Make an adjustment or substitution that turns the tide?
Joe can't or won't do any of these things.

Mid/End of 3rd qtr Atlanta gets back into the game basically because of bonehead plays from our stars (JB turnover, JT turnover and subsequent clear path foul, etc) and letting Atl take uncontested 3s. Joe then called a timeout.  Players came out w more focused offensive execution and better defense on the 3pt line, Atlanta never got closer (but still kept it within striking distance). Is that what you guys mean?

No, that can’t be…