Celts get Derrick White for Richardson, Langford, #1, 2028 pick swap

[slamtheking]

I'll throw my 2 cents in here as someone who's been vocal about the trade being an overpay.

I'm thrilled he finally had a great shooting game.  I think it's pretty safe to say that everyone who questioned the trade is happy with last night's performance.  No one is rooting for this guy to fail.  White failing to perform doesn't help this team get to a title at all so thinking that's what people want who were against paying what we paid is foolish.  I've never considered him a stiff (a few others may have) but he was not performing up to what we needed from him nor to the value of what we paid.  He still hasn't -- yet.  Yes, last night he played better than we could have hoped from from the guys he replaced (not just Richardson and Romeo but Schroder as well since Schroder was moved because we now had White) but that's one game.  His performance in the Miami series was solid for a few games but not otherworldly as some have put out there.

I'm hoping that's what we see from him the rest of the finals but in no way am I expecting that.  For me, to justify that price we should be seeing 14-15 points a game, solid defense and about 4 assists per game.  That's what this team needs from the first guard off the bench.  To me, that's the level of play we should be getting every game for what we gave up.  Last night was great.  I really hope we see more of that level of performance.

I'm curious on your take.  Let's assume that white next reaches those heights; he's a 11 / 3.5 guy off the bench with spotty shooting and good defense.  Is the trade "worth it" if we win a title?

confused by what you asked.  if he "reaches those heights" he'd be hitting the levels I'm expecting which is not the numbers you've posted.  If he hits my marks, yes, I think that the trade was a reasonable cost.  if he hits the level you provided and has spotty shooting, I'll probably still think it's an overpay.  if he plays every finals game like he did yesterday, I'll think the trade was worth the risk because he played as well as he could be asked to regardless of whether we win or lose.

So, if he doesn't reach your numbers, and he doesn't shoot well for the rest of the Finals, you're not onboard, even if we bring home the title?

if that's what happens, it means the rest of the team had to do the work to win so no, I'd still think it was an overpay.  again. not saying he's a stiff or not a rotation-quality player but he's not producing at the level that justifies that deal.  He wasn't brought in for just Richardson, Romeo, a 1st and a swap but also used as the principal step in trading Schroder as well.  that's a high bar and in your hypothetical he's not producing.   smart playmaking and good D are terrific and all but players that only offer that can be had for less than what we paid.

Did you think Schroder was effective here?  I did not.

I wasn't thrilled with his style of play so I agree with you in that regard.  having said that, he did carry the offense a number of times early in the season when the team was playing pretty badly.

[86MaxwellSmart]

is anyone gonna pay Schroeder this off season?? 

[Celtics2021]

is anyone gonna pay Schroeder this off season?? 

I would guess not very much.

[cman88]

White actually was a decent shooter in San Antonio so it's not like he couldn't shoot.

This trade was also addition by subtraction. Get rid of the guys who don't buy into the defensive and offensive system and bring guys in who do like white. IF we win a championship I doubt anyone will care about a lost first rounder.

If you feel your team is right there and is ready you put your chips on the table. And I think that's what Stevens did with this and the horford trade.

[gouki88]

Steve Bulpett: Derrick White was averaging 6.7 points on 34.7 pct shooting (23.7 from 3) in 12 playoff games before missing one for the birth of his son. In the 6 games since, he’s averaging 13.0 points on 45.6/42.9 pct shooting. As far as Hendrix White is concerned, his dad’s a frickin’ star.

The Fred VanVleet effect

[jambr380]

Steve Bulpett: Derrick White was averaging 6.7 points on 34.7 pct shooting (23.7 from 3) in 12 playoff games before missing one for the birth of his son. In the 6 games since, he’s averaging 13.0 points on 45.6/42.9 pct shooting. As far as Hendrix White is concerned, his dad’s a frickin’ star.

The Fred VanVleet effect

I know he wanted to use the 'dad energy' effect to show the difference in stats, but it would be more impressive if he included game 3 in the before category rather than in the after. His 1st game back (he missed game 2), White was 0-2 with 0 points, 2 rebounds, and 1 assist in 18 minutes. He did have 2 blocks, but Bulpett did not include blocks.

It was after this game that White talked about being more aggressive and it has definitely shown. He has been much better since game 4 of the Miami series and the Cs are benefitting greatly from this change of attitude.

[pokeKingCurtis]

People: we need someone who doesn't need the ball in his hands to compliment Tatum

Also people: why doesn't Derrick White assert himself more

Great bounce back by White. He's not the guy on this team, so I'm fine with him observing and seeing where he fits best

[Sophomore]

People: we need someone who doesn't need the ball in his hands to compliment Tatum

Also people: why doesn't Derrick White assert himself more

Great bounce back by White. He's not the guy on this team, so I'm fine with him observing and seeing where he fits best

When White is on, he makes good, quick decisions. The ball doesn’t stick for long. So he might take a shot or work a seam, if it’s there, or he might pass right away or take a few dribbles before moving it. Usually helps put pace into the offense. So in a way - when he’s on - it’s the best of both worlds.

[Phantom255x]

I think the team encouraged White to be more aggressive and to also not be scared to speak up if he notices something, and that has paid dividends since Game 3 of the Miami series.

I mean there have been quotes and pieces where Timelord and Smart have said the same, that they've encouraged White to speak up and to assert himself more. I think part of it is, when you join a new team mid-season you might be a bit conservative and just follow-along since the others on the team have obviously been there a while and understand things more, and you also don't want to make too many dumb mistakes and create a bad impression.

The biggest issue with White earlier on was that his shots weren't falling, but he was still doing a lot of the other things well and filling in nicely on games where they dealt with injuries or had guys resting late in the season. But when his shot is falling at a decent clip, he's a weapon.

I did say that White could be the X-Factor for the C's in this series and it already feels like it.

[Vermont Green]

I have been kind of lukewarm on the trade all along.  I am not one of those that is freaking out because of a pick swap in 2028 but I also wasn't all on board believing that White was going to be a key or move the needle in some dramatic way.  I believed that White was going to be a nice upgrade or better fit over Schroder in that back up PG/combo guard role but I did have concern that it left us a little light at the back up wing role.

I was pretty disappointed with the shooting of course but he somehow was able to overcome that and contribute anyway.  To me, he looked like a good player with the shooting 'yips".  I expected that at some point, he would get over it and settle in as a good enough shooter, as you would expect based on his career averages.

But wow, have things really come together for him these last several games.  There has been talk of how he was reluctant to assert himself more as he was joining a good team on a historic run.  That shows good basketball or even just team sport IQ.  This seemed to lead to him being hesitant to shoot and so he missed some early on and then he got the yips and so on.

As others have said, his whole release and body language looks totally different now.  He looks so comfortable and the role for him on this team is so perfect.  It is still true that we gave up a lot for him, or so it seems, but there should be no doubt now that we got the right guy for this team.  He does all those important little things that we need but when he also throws in 20+ points off the bench, he makes us a really really good team. 

Last game he was Tyler Herro but with much better defense and not needing the ball in his hands as much.

[dannyboy35]

 I really like Josh Richardson as a time player but White far more. What a deal that’s become. But I’d love to ADD Richardson . That would be a lethal 9 players that excel on d.

[jambr380]

I really like Josh Richardson as a time player but White far more. What a deal that’s become. But I’d love to ADD Richardson . That would be a lethal 9 players that excel on d.

Yeah, that's the thing. I like Josh Richardson, but also like this current iteration of White. If I knew for certain that we weren't going to give Nesmith any run, I would have preferred to add him to the deal and then take back White with the TPE (and pay the tax). The fact that we have a team so close to a Title while staying under the tax is cool, but also disappointing. It would be really nice to just have a reliable back-up option at the sg/sf position.

Hopefully we win the Title this season and we get Richardson - or a guy like him - with the TPE this summer.

[colincb]

On Sports Center after the game, Patrick Beverley singled out Udoka for riding with White vs Smart in the 4th quarter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfazhcK-LV8

[Big333223]

Steve Bulpett: Derrick White was averaging 6.7 points on 34.7 pct shooting (23.7 from 3) in 12 playoff games before missing one for the birth of his son. In the 6 games since, he’s averaging 13.0 points on 45.6/42.9 pct shooting. As far as Hendrix White is concerned, his dad’s a frickin’ star.

The Fred VanVleet effect

I already see the Celtics only targeting free agents with pregnant wives/girlfriends.

[slamtheking]

I'll throw my 2 cents in here as someone who's been vocal about the trade being an overpay.

I'm thrilled he finally had a great shooting game.  I think it's pretty safe to say that everyone who questioned the trade is happy with last night's performance.  No one is rooting for this guy to fail.  White failing to perform doesn't help this team get to a title at all so thinking that's what people want who were against paying what we paid is foolish.  I've never considered him a stiff (a few others may have) but he was not performing up to what we needed from him nor to the value of what we paid.  He still hasn't -- yet.  Yes, last night he played better than we could have hoped from from the guys he replaced (not just Richardson and Romeo but Schroder as well since Schroder was moved because we now had White) but that's one game.  His performance in the Miami series was solid for a few games but not otherworldly as some have put out there.

I'm hoping that's what we see from him the rest of the finals but in no way am I expecting that.  For me, to justify that price we should be seeing 14-15 points a game, solid defense and about 4 assists per game.  That's what this team needs from the first guard off the bench.  To me, that's the level of play we should be getting every game for what we gave up.  Last night was great.  I really hope we see more of that level of performance.

The disconnect seems to be in how we rate what White actually is versus what the value is of what we gave up.  I don't think we gave up anything of real value.  Or should I say, anything that can't be easily replaced.  And White simply is a different level of player as a J Rich, Romeo, and probably the picks too.  Those guys are strictly role players that only do role player things if they have stars taking all the attention.  White is so much more than that it's not even funny.

that's strictly your opinion and you're welcome to it.  I disagree. until halfway through the Miami series, and certainly in the regular season, he didn't establish himself as a better player than Richardson when Richardson was here.  in fact, as the season went on his performances were becoming even more of a concern. 

You're talking like White is a high-level starter which he is not.  Richardson is a solid role player.  Schroder for all his faults is a rotation-quality player that can carry an offense on some nights.  Romeo, though constantly injured, could defend and his offense was coming around.  White was brought in to replace all of them so the expectation is he needs to produce what they were producing and he hasn't.  very plain and simple.  Last night was great.  Thrilled to see him succeed last night and want to see him succeed every night but in no way has he been "so much more than that it's not even funny" because I found nothing humorous about his playing this season.

Here is the other disconnect.  I'm talking about what White IS versus just performance and numbers.  Hopefully we can all agree that White has been acclimating to a new team and a new role during his time here.  He was not primarily a PG and he was a starter.  So I didn't really give a hoot about his numbers.  I am evaluating what he does on the both ends of the court for the things he can control.  FYI, the ball going in the basket is not one of the things you can control.  Now LONG TERM you do show what you are.  If you shoot 25% from 3 over years, then yeah, you can't shoot.  Stop shooting. 

As for replacing the production of three guys, I assume you don't mean total counting stats.  I will also ignore that DS was traded for Theis (and PP more or less).  Despite the counting stats, we all know DS could be as much of a detriment as a positive.

As for Romeo and Rich, I will sum it up this way.  As I said before, those guys thrive when attention is paid to stars.  D White on the other hand can actually make our stars and other role players better.  That's a huge difference.

And let's not get into defense where White has proven to be absolutely elite.

Total stats, no.  Ability to provide scoring such that a defender can't ignore him or dare him to shoot from outside, yes.  He's replacing 3 guys, 2 of which could provide scoring and couldn't be ignored by the defense and 2 of which could provide high quality defense.  These 3 were on the team when things had started to click and the C's were playing better so it's not like the team wasn't functioning well with those 3 instead of White.  Schroder not being in the deal to SA doesn't negate the fact that acquiring White was the precipitating event to Schroder being traded since White was being brought into replace Schroder as the primary backup PG.  If this deal were for Schroder, Romeo, the first and even the swap, there'd be a lot less discussion of the cost. 

If Romeo and Rich thrive on attention paid to the stars, so does White.  Are you actually trying to propose that White draws attention from Tatum and Brown?  that's nonsense.  he 'thrives' on attention being on the stars as well and 'thrive' isn't exactly what he's done except for a few games here.

Elite?  you're kidding right?  Solid D - won't question that.  so were Richardson and Romeo.  Smart and TL, I would put in the elite category.  White, as with Tatum, Brown and Al -- all solid defenders.