Simmons and Lowe talk Rondo on the BS Report pod - Knicks are their best guess

[BballTim]

For people who consider it important that their franchise player be able to put points on the board independent of their teammates, I think being concerned about Rondo's jump shot is reasonable.

  It looks like you went from questioning why people are so concerned about Rondo's mid-range game to knowing exactly why they're discussing it simply because I agreed with your original thought. Were you temporarily blinded when the light suddenly went on in your head? Did you suffer any whiplash from the experience?

It's amazing what a good night's sleep and a strong cup of coffee between posts can do.

I didn't realize people where arguing about Rondo's mid range jumper as a sign of whether or not he's a franchise player until you posted about it -- and then, yeah, the light clicked on and it made perfect sense, since the Jordan-contested-two is about as 'franchise player' as you can get in the highlight reel.

So you pictured in your mind Jordan hitting a mid-range jumper and then you thought that is what a franchise player should be? Or is the statement just tongue in cheek?

I think that when most people think of the phrase "franchise players," the usual "mind's eye" approximation is to think about guys like Kobe, Melo, Durant, Jordan etc. taking someone off the dribble and hitting a contested long two/three with the game on the line. Remember when LeBron got all that shade thrown at him for passing the last shot to Deron Wiliams in the all-star game a few years ago? It's because he wasn't acting like 'a franchise player', even if no one actually came out and used that exact phrasing.

I think that could be possible. But man are big men going to be mad with people who think like that.


My opinion on what a franchise player is. A franchise player leads a team on the court with close to 25% of league team average point production. So average team scores 100 a night a franchise players averages 25 points or 20 points and 5 or more assist or can negate opposing offenses say at 20 points 3 assist 3 blocks. Also on most nights a franchise player can not be stopped from their high output. They should also be "clutch" or at least not effected by pressure situations.

  Without giving this much thought, the list of people that don't fit your definition of what a franchise player is will start with Bill Russell.

Not correct they didn't track blocks in Russell era, also assist were also tracked differently.  That along with his ridiculous rebound out put which for a Center after 1/8 of league team total average I also see as negating/adding offense. I don't know what the average was for teams back then but that is the formula I use.

That Rebound formula in use today would mean a center today gaining above 8 rebounds is adding extra to the offense with each rebound. 8 he is doing his expected job. Below and he is just not meeting production per 38 min at center.

Example: today 17/13/2/3 one turn over and two non strategy shooting fouls, would be a franchise caliber player for me. Hope that helps and maybe gets people thinking about game impact and value of players. We should do a separate thread on it for everyone's opinions and formulas used if any.

  Your first definition of a franchise player concentrated mainly on scoring and didn't mention rebounding at all. Your second crack at it seems to be all about rebounding and barely mentions scoring. I think it would need more explanation, but probably in another thread.

[Csfan1984]

As you can tell there is a lot that goes into it. Basically it's player impact measurement. Will try to start up a thread on Monday and hope a lot of people post. Getting a look of how people look at basketball is always interesting.