Simmons and Lowe talk Rondo on the BS Report pod - Knicks are their best guess

[Vox_Populi]

One thing that should be noted when you're looking at % of FGAs is that Rondo can settle for more long twos because he cannot, and doesn't, take 3s.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Yeah I mean as much sense as it makes to deal Rondo for the following reasons:

1.) we're not competing soon in all likelihood
2.) we drafted Marcus Smart
3.) Rondo has a lot of value and we could use both upside talent and proven assets equally

The teams that make sense just don't have anything of value to give to us.  So I think we'll keep him, just because Ainge won't get anywhere near fair value

[D.o.s.]

Is it? I can't look on my phone. How does it compare to the players listed?

Here are the numbers for the players I listed:

Rajon Rondo:

Career percentage from 16-23:  .416

Career percentage of FGAs from 16-23:  .211

John Wall:

Career percentage from 16-23:  .343

Career percentage of FGAs from 16-23:  .300

Russell Westbrook:

Career percentage from 16-23:  .397

Career percentage of FGAs from 16-23: .202

Dwayne Wade:

Career percentage from 16-23:  .390

Career percentage of FGAs from 16-23:  .260

Tony Parker:

Career percentage from 16-23:  .408

Career percentage of FGAs from 16-23: .270

One of the things that jumps out at me from those numbers is the incredibly poor shot selection from John Wall, in particular.  Why in the world is he taking 30% of all his shots from that mid range area when he's only making a woeful 34% of them. 

There's a fine line between not being aggressive enough in looking for your own shot and taking bad shots. 

I was also somewhat surprised that Russell Westbrook takes the lowest amount of mid range jumpers per shot attempt of anyone on that list.  It's always seemed to me that he is constantly tossing up bricks from that range.

Westbrook's a much better player than he's often credited for, despite the 'he's terrible! he's holding Durant back!' mostly-nonsense narrative that gets brought out for each national game.

That said, I'm less interested in his career numbers than I am in the recent history, specifically the "Rondo is the best player on the team" history, and last year Rondo took fewer than 70 shots from the midrange (10ft out to the 3 point line). That's very low, compared to everyone else on this list -- Westbrook had more than double that number, and Tony Parker had more than triple it.

But even if you take the Tim line and say that Rondo was the best player on our team in '11-'12, his midrange game is relatively non-existent, regardless of what database you want to use.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01/shooting/2012/
http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/player/shotchart/829-Rajon-Rondo/season/2011-2012-REG

More links:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01/shooting/2014/
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westbru01/shooting/2014/
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01/shooting/2014/

I do find it interesting that there's so much contention around whether or not Rondo is good at what many claim to be the worst shot in basketball.

[kraidstar]

this might sound crazy, but i think rondo would work in chicago. move rose to SG and let rondo take some of the wear and tear. rondo also provides an insurance policy if rose's knees give out.
chicago would be adding another elite athlete and a clutch playoff player to what is already a borderline contender; rondo might push them over the top. he's also obviously an elite passer, they would have deadly ball movement with rondo, rose, gasol, and noah.
chicago has draft picks and prospects to trade. mirotic and/or mcdermott could look nice in green.
i really think that if you're a contender and another team offers you a star for picks/prospects, you have to at least listen.

[BballTim]

Is it? I can't look on my phone. How does it compare to the players listed?

Here are the numbers for the players I listed:

Rajon Rondo:

Career percentage from 16-23:  .416

Career percentage of FGAs from 16-23:  .211

John Wall:

Career percentage from 16-23:  .343

Career percentage of FGAs from 16-23:  .300

Russell Westbrook:

Career percentage from 16-23:  .397

Career percentage of FGAs from 16-23: .202

Dwayne Wade:

Career percentage from 16-23:  .390

Career percentage of FGAs from 16-23:  .260

Tony Parker:

Career percentage from 16-23:  .408

Career percentage of FGAs from 16-23: .270

One of the things that jumps out at me from those numbers is the incredibly poor shot selection from John Wall, in particular.  Why in the world is he taking 30% of all his shots from that mid range area when he's only making a woeful 34% of them. 

There's a fine line between not being aggressive enough in looking for your own shot and taking bad shots. 

I was also somewhat surprised that Russell Westbrook takes the lowest amount of mid range jumpers per shot attempt of anyone on that list.  It's always seemed to me that he is constantly tossing up bricks from that range.

Westbrook's a much better player than he's often credited for, despite the 'he's terrible! he's holding Durant back!' mostly-nonsense narrative that gets brought out for each national game.

That said, I'm less interested in his career numbers than I am in the recent history, specifically the "Rondo is the best player on the team" history, and last year Rondo took fewer than 70 shots from the midrange (10ft out to the 3 point line). That's very low, compared to everyone else on this list -- Westbrook had more than double that number, and Tony Parker had more than triple it.

But even if you take the Tim line and say that Rondo was the best player on our team in '11-'12, his midrange game is relatively non-existent, regardless of what database you want to use.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01/shooting/2012/
http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/player/shotchart/829-Rajon-Rondo/season/2011-2012-REG

  I don't see why Rondo's mid-range game in non-existent in 2012. Also, trying to draw any useful conclusions from his 2014 numbers will be fairly futile.

I do find it interesting that there's so much contention around whether or not Rondo is good at what many claim to be the worst shot in basketball.

   You'd have to point at his critics, who typically exaggerate the importance of such shooting because it's something Rondo does poorly. In fact there's a current thread about how Rondo not throwing up more jumpers, without looking for better options for himself or others, is what prevents him from being a franchise player.

[D.o.s.]

For people who consider it important that their franchise player be able to put points on the board independent of their teammates, I think being concerned about Rondo's jump shot is reasonable.

[Stizz44]

Why would the Celtics re-sign AB and bring in Evan Turner if the plan is to trade Rondo and tank a few more seasons?

[D.o.s.]

Because Evan Turner isn't good at basketball.

[crimson_stallion]

this might sound crazy, but i think rondo would work in chicago. move rose to SG and let rondo take some of the wear and tear. rondo also provides an insurance policy if rose's knees give out.

Hmm...bring in a star PG coming off an ACL injury as a backup for your existing star PG who is just coming off an ACL injury.

Interesting approach.

[crimson_stallion]

Yeah I mean as much sense as it makes to deal Rondo for the following reasons:

1.) we're not competing soon in all likelihood
2.) we drafted Marcus Smart
3.) Rondo has a lot of value and we could use both upside talent and proven assets equally

The teams that make sense just don't have anything of value to give to us.  So I think we'll keep him, just because Ainge won't get anywhere near fair value

I tend to agree.

People keep throwing names like Sacramento, Houston and New York out there.  Neither one of those teams has a single asset that I'd want, aside from the handful of guys who are clearly way out of reach (Harden, Howard, Cousins, Melo).  The best player you could probably get out of one of those teams would be Rudy Gay, who is probably not a significant upgrade (if any upgrade at all) over Jeff Green.

The only team that makes any sense to me is Detroit - trading Rondo for Monroe is a move I'd be very happy with.  Makes sense because we need a legit starting calibre big man with proper size, and Smith and Rondo have wanted to get hitched for years. But makes little sense for Detroit given they already have Jennings, who probably wouldn't work well with Rondo in the backcourt,

[Csfan1984]

Why would the Celtics re-sign AB and bring in Evan Turner if the plan is to trade Rondo and tank a few more seasons?

AB and Turner are still developing. I'd say each is a year or more from hitting their prime. Rondo is in the middle with about 4 years left. Not that they can't stay together but you don't have to keep Rondo either. More guys on this team are developing vs ready for a run like Rondo.

[BballTim]

For people who consider it important that their franchise player be able to put points on the board independent of their teammates, I think being concerned about Rondo's jump shot is reasonable.

  It looks like you went from questioning why people are so concerned about Rondo's mid-range game to knowing exactly why they're discussing it simply because I agreed with your original thought. Were you temporarily blinded when the light suddenly went on in your head? Did you suffer any whiplash from the experience?

[D.o.s.]

For people who consider it important that their franchise player be able to put points on the board independent of their teammates, I think being concerned about Rondo's jump shot is reasonable.

  It looks like you went from questioning why people are so concerned about Rondo's mid-range game to knowing exactly why they're discussing it simply because I agreed with your original thought. Were you temporarily blinded when the light suddenly went on in your head? Did you suffer any whiplash from the experience?

It's amazing what a good night's sleep and a strong cup of coffee between posts can do.

I didn't realize people where arguing about Rondo's mid range jumper as a sign of whether or not he's a franchise player until you posted about it -- and then, yeah, the light clicked on and it made perfect sense, since the Jordan-contested-two is about as 'franchise player' as you can get in the highlight reel.

[Csfan1984]

For people who consider it important that their franchise player be able to put points on the board independent of their teammates, I think being concerned about Rondo's jump shot is reasonable.

  It looks like you went from questioning why people are so concerned about Rondo's mid-range game to knowing exactly why they're discussing it simply because I agreed with your original thought. Were you temporarily blinded when the light suddenly went on in your head? Did you suffer any whiplash from the experience?

It's amazing what a good night's sleep and a strong cup of coffee between posts can do.

I didn't realize people where arguing about Rondo's mid range jumper as a sign of whether or not he's a franchise player until you posted about it -- and then, yeah, the light clicked on and it made perfect sense, since the Jordan-contested-two is about as 'franchise player' as you can get in the highlight reel.

So you pictured in your mind Jordan hitting a mid-range jumper and then you thought that is what a franchise player should be? Or is the statement just tongue in cheek?

[hwangjini_1]

Because Evan Turner isn't good at basketball.

true. but he is a talented player with a lot of problems.

one of the "benefits" of being a p--- poor team is that you can bring in such players and see what happens. if the players stinks it up, who cares? your team would have been bad anyway.

if, however, the player turns it around and becomes a good player, you have a good player and gave up next to nothing.

the sox did that with Miller as a LOOGY. that time it worked out well. with evans? i wouldn't bet money on him, but it is worth the risk that stevens might turn his game around.