WojBomb - Cavs evaluating options after IT physical...

[jambr380]

This article has what appears to be the most sensible and accurate explanation of the whole issue. It really sounds like neither team is angry, both want to go ahead with the trade. Clevelands doctors belive IT will likely miss most of the season, and since his salary puts them into luxury tax they don't want to pay that for a guy who doesn't even play this season. They want a future first to be able to package it with Shumpert to clear his 10 million off their books and also open a roster spot. Sounds fair to me.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-what-is-next-for-the-celtics-and-cavs/

after the fact they realize they are over the luxury tax threshold and could benefit from an extra pick to help move shump?
Should have addressed that before terms were agreed

TP

Their tax issues are NOT our problem. We are NOT a charity.

Don't give an inch, Danny!

As has been mentioned, they are already saving a bunch of money on this deal. If it falls through and Kyrie won't waive his trade kicker to another team, they will need to take on even more money in contracts than they are now...and the top asset they receive will not be the caliber of the BKN pick.

I understand why people think Cleveland has Boston over a barrel because of IT/Crowder, but if this really is about money and potential, Cleveland doesn't have an option even close to ours.

I also don't see why people keep saying it seems 'fair' to give Cleveland an additional 1st so they can off-load Shumpert. That seems ludicrous given lines of communication have been reportedly open from the start regarding IT's hip.

[celticinorlando]

I just don't see any dance partners out there for them. The Suns? They aren't getting Josh
Jackson and Bledsoe is one of the most overvalued players in the league.

The Heat? Pat Riley isn't going to put up with this bull**** either.

Boston has an unprotected pick from a team that will be one of the 4 worst teams in the draft this year...in a great draft. Plus the flexible and friendly cap deal. Plus a young first round center...and then on top of that IT..who if he doesn't play for them they let him walk. IT is not in their plans after this year anyway

[Moranis]

This article has what appears to be the most sensible and accurate explanation of the whole issue. It really sounds like neither team is angry, both want to go ahead with the trade. Clevelands doctors belive IT will likely miss most of the season, and since his salary puts them into luxury tax they don't want to pay that for a guy who doesn't even play this season. They want a future first to be able to package it with Shumpert to clear his 10 million off their books and also open a roster spot. Sounds fair to me.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-what-is-next-for-the-celtics-and-cavs/

It's sensible if you accept Cleveland's diagnosis - that IT probably gives them little or nothing this year, and that he's therefore just an expiring contract. 

If that is true, then a late first to help along a Shumpert trade does seem fair.

But then there's the possibility that IT plays most of the season at or near an All-Star level.  And if that's the case, the Celtics shouldn't give up anything else, and arguably have already given up too much. 

And there's the rub.

If that is the issue, why not just make a conditional first based on playing time.  Or is that only allowed in the NFL and not the NBA?

The same thought occurred to me, and was originally in my post (and I also have no idea if it's legal or not).  I deleted it because it doesn't address Cleveland's desire for cap relief.

If you believe the article hpantazo linked, Cleveland wants a pick to package with Shumpert so they can get under the lux tax.  But they need to make that move ASAP, and they can't trade a pick that they don't have yet.  So they can't afford to wait to see how many games IT plays before shedding salary.  A conditional pick doesn't address their needs.

the article says they want cap relief for a player that isn't going to play though.  If he plays, there desire for cap relief is lessened.  If he doesn't play and has surgery, then the pick would almost certainly be transferred.  Also, if it is a conditional pick, I would assume it is a 1st round pick or a 2nd round pick, not a 1st round pick or nothing. 

[Moranis]

And I don't for a second believe Cleveland is out shopping Irving.  Even if Cleveland is contemplating voiding the deal (I don't think they are), Cleveland already knows what teams were willing to pay because they had been talking to teams for a month. 

This just really boils down to how Cleveland weighs the value of BKN, Crowder, Zizic, and Thomas for less time then they thought vs. the other options like Brogdon, Middleton, 1st or Bledsoe, Bender, Miami 1st or Chandler, Harris, filler or whatever other offers they received or they think they could get out of those other teams (like maybe they think they can unload Shumpert in one of those trades or get another lesser player like TJ Warren or some other useful player like say Delly back from the Bucks).

I've been saying for awhile, I just don't buy these stories and think they are purely media driven.  At most Boston will give up a 2nd round pick, which both teams will do, and I'm not really sure even that will be necessary.

[jambr380]

I was looking at upcoming Celtics draft picks a couple of days ago and I am pretty sure that the '18 and '19 2nd rounders are both top 55 protected traded to other teams. Normally that wouldn't be a problem, but we should definitely be one of the top 5 teams in the league over the next two years and subsequently will not have those picks to trade.

We have multiple 2nd rounders in 2020, but that is hardly anything at which to salivate.

On a related note, this is so lame - just finish the trade (or don't) and let's move on with our lives.

[timpiker]

Has anyone else noticed that Woj isn't Woj since he joined espn?

Where's Woj?  Does he wear a red hat that's easy to pick in a crowd?

[Rosco917]

The Cavs most likely are entertaining other offers for Irving. Their making sure this is the best they can do.

As soon as the Cavs make a trade for a player other than a PG, they cause other reactions from their trade action. Meaning, if they trade for a center or a wing where does this new player actually play? They would have to acquire a really special talent at center to do all the dirty work Thompson does. Love and LBJ need to be on the floor as much as possible. That lets out getting a Melo type of player.

The best option they have is with the Celtic trade, scoring PG for scoring PG, and the sweetners that go along with it. That Nets pick is their future, after LeBron goes to LA, they still need to survive and rebuild.

[CelticsElite]

Forsberg- "The NBA should be monitoring this situation with interest too, because the possibility of a team being encouraged by its trade partner to increase its offerings in the aftermath could be a slippery slope, setting a potentially uncomfortable precedent for future dealings."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20489627/nba-why-boston-celtics-sweeten-deal-amid-stalemate-cleveland-cavaliers

[TheSundanceKid]

This article has what appears to be the most sensible and accurate explanation of the whole issue. It really sounds like neither team is angry, both want to go ahead with the trade. Clevelands doctors belive IT will likely miss most of the season, and since his salary puts them into luxury tax they don't want to pay that for a guy who doesn't even play this season. They want a future first to be able to package it with Shumpert to clear his 10 million off their books and also open a roster spot. Sounds fair to me.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-what-is-next-for-the-celtics-and-cavs/

It's sensible if you accept Cleveland's reported diagnosis - that IT probably gives them little or nothing this year, and that he's therefore just an expiring contract. 

If that is true, then a late first to help along a Shumpert trade does seem fair.

But then there's the possibility that IT plays most of the season at or near an All-Star level.  And if that's the case, the Celtics shouldn't give up anything else, and arguably have already given up too much. 

And there's the rub.

By giving them the Brooklyn pick we free up their own pick to be used in a Shump trade. I don't buy at all that they need another one. The deal as constructed was perfect for the Cavs, assuming Isaiah doesn't miss a large portion of the season.

Even if he does miss more of the season, it is still a better deal than they can get elsewhere. The reason for this is that none of the other packages contain someone that could make LeBron stay. Bledsoe or Middleton...please, they are high end role players, they aren't impacting Lebrons decision. Isaiah might. So in the other packages you are looking at the future pieces. Bender and a 1st Vs brogdon and a 1st Vs Zizic and the Nets pick. That's an easy decision.

[j804]

The Cavs most likely are entertaining other offers for Irving. Their making sure this is the best they can do.

While they are putting up highlight videos of IT/Zizic/Crowder all over Cavs.com front page? I don't think so, this is a done deal behind the scenes they are just making the Celts wait and being stubborn about it.

[ETNCeltics]

Shouldn't offer them a blessed thing. The BRK pick is better than anything anyone else is going to give them. Irving wouldn't accept any other team that might have a high draft pick to offer CLE.

Certainly hope Ainge sticks to his guns. And Silver and the NBA shouldn't tolerate a team holding another hostage after a trade has been announced, especially in a situation where the injury to the player in question was well-known.

[Roy H.]

A few days ago I was reading that the Nets pick wasn't that special, and would most likely be around #7.

Now, it's perhaps the best single asset in the NBA.  It's hands down better than Phoenix's pick, for instance.

Which is it? The value shouldn't change based upon whether Cleveland or Boston has the pick.

[Fafnir]

It's the best draft pick asset that's up for grabs is what I thought.

Are the Suns even offering their own draft pick? I always read they were offering Miami's picks not their own. The Sun's pick would be comparable to BKN's.

Also the BKN pick has the extra facet of Irving being good not devaluing the pick you're getting back in return.

[Moranis]

A few days ago I was reading that the Nets pick wasn't that special, and would most likely be around #7.

Now, it's perhaps the best single asset in the NBA.  It's hands down better than Phoenix's pick, for instance.

Which is it? The value shouldn't change based upon whether Cleveland or Boston has the pick.

I'm not sure the value changed, but the pick from Phoenix that was actually offered was Miami's 1st not Phoenix's.  If Phoenix had offered their own 1st plus Bledsoe and Bender, that trade might have already been completed because even with Irving that team isn't making the playoffs and Bender still has to be considered at least a decent level of prospect himself. 

[jambr380]

A few days ago I was reading that the Nets pick wasn't that special, and would most likely be around #7.

Now, it's perhaps the best single asset in the NBA.  It's hands down better than Phoenix's pick, for instance.

Which is it? The value shouldn't change based upon whether Cleveland or Boston has the pick.

The reported trade with PHX was Bledsoe, Bender, and the Heat pick (not PHX pick).

And, yeah, if the trade goes through, we will hope for the worst possible outcome regarding the BKN pick; if it is voided, well, it is going to be #1...obviously 

Edit: TPs to Faf and Moranis for beating me on the 1st point.