WojBomb - Cavs evaluating options after IT physical...

[kozlodoev]

Or unless we failed Kyrie on his physical.

[kozlodoev]

I'm now convinced this is what happened:

1. Danny negotiates and conveys all the information he has about IT's hip;
2. Cavs agree to trade with full knowledge of the risks/concerns;
3. Lebron contacts management and expresses delight in playing with IT;
4. GM says "well...IT has a bad hip and might be substantially diminished next year";
5. Lebron freaks out..."What!?!?! I didn't know that? You have to go back and get more from them!";
6. Cavs management puts out announcement that IT is hurt and they're seeking more, knowing full well it's nonsense, to placate Lebron.

In other things, this is a farce with an audience of one, like 95% of everything that happens in Cleveland.

Replace "LeBron" with "Dan Gilbert."

Wait, Dan Gilbert is suiting up to play this season?

[PhoSita]

One thing to keep in mind re: this report that "the Cavs didn't get any new information from the physical."


Take two doctors, each paid by people on different sides of a deal / dispute.

Provide them with the same medical records and examination findings.

Get two very different sets of conclusions and recommendations for treatment.


Take it from somebody who deals with that type of scenario every single day in his job.

[Atzar]

Cavs are going to get s rep of being ridiculous to work with. Bush league

The following is speculation.  So take it for what it's worth; nothing.

But my theory is that this is exactly what's happening, and it's why the Cavs seem to be waffling in every direction now.  I believe that Cleveland has more leverage in this trade, and that they could put Ainge in a very difficult spot if they choose to play hardball.  They could make Ainge choose between adding an asset to the package or taking back a resentful IT, whose value has been diminished in a very public manner. 

So Altman has Ainge by the balls, BUT he can't afford to be perceived amongst his peers as a snake.  He could hurt his future if he makes the wrong move.  GM relationships are important, and Cleveland is put at a severe disadvantage if Altman establishes himself as untrustworthy. 

So I think he's fishing.  He's looking for a way to spin this so that he can pinch another asset while looking like the good guy.  But I'm not sure that he can do that. 




Or he just doesn't like what he saw from IT's physical and he's balking.  Who knows at this point?

[Wretch]

I'm now convinced this is what happened:

1. Danny negotiates and conveys all the information he has about IT's hip;
2. Cavs agree to trade with full knowledge of the risks/concerns;
3. Lebron contacts management and expresses delight in playing with IT;
4. GM says "well...IT has a bad hip and might be substantially diminished next year";
5. Lebron freaks out..."What!?!?! I didn't know that? You have to go back and get more from them!";
6. Cavs management puts out announcement that IT is hurt and they're seeking more, knowing full well it's nonsense, to placate Lebron.

In other things, this is a farce with an audience of one, like 95% of everything that happens in Cleveland.

If this is the case then I think that could be why there was a reported demand for Tatum or Brown.  LBJ wants players not picks. Someone who can play/contribute now versus a pick that will likely take years to develop.

[kozlodoev]

I'm now convinced this is what happened:

1. Danny negotiates and conveys all the information he has about IT's hip;
2. Cavs agree to trade with full knowledge of the risks/concerns;
3. Lebron contacts management and expresses delight in playing with IT;
4. GM says "well...IT has a bad hip and might be substantially diminished next year";
5. Lebron freaks out..."What!?!?! I didn't know that? You have to go back and get more from them!";
6. Cavs management puts out announcement that IT is hurt and they're seeking more, knowing full well it's nonsense, to placate Lebron.

In other things, this is a farce with an audience of one, like 95% of everything that happens in Cleveland.

If this is the case then I think that could be why there was a reported demand for Tatum or Brown.  LBJ wants players not picks. Someone who can play/contribute now versus a pick that will likely take years to develop.

Tatum WILL probably take years to develop.

[Moranis]

Cavs are going to get s rep of being ridiculous to work with. Bush league

The following is speculation.  So take it for what it's worth; nothing.

But my theory is that this is exactly what's happening, and it's why the Cavs seem to be waffling in every direction now.  I believe that Cleveland has more leverage in this trade, and that they could put Ainge in a very difficult spot if they choose to play hardball.  They could make Ainge choose between adding an asset to the package or taking back a resentful IT, whose value has been diminished in a very public manner. 

So Altman has Ainge by the balls, BUT he can't afford to be perceived amongst his peers as a snake.  He could hurt his future if he makes the wrong move.  GM relationships are important, and Cleveland is put at a severe disadvantage if Altman establishes himself as untrustworthy. 

So I think he's fishing.  He's looking for a way to spin this so that he can pinch another asset while looking like the good guy.  But I'm not sure that he can do that. 




Or he just doesn't like what he saw from IT's physical and he's balking.  Who knows at this point?

or maybe just maybe this is much ado about nothing.  What I mean is maybe the Cavs had Thomas in for his physical.  And when someone asked them about it, the Cavs knew it would take some time to go through all of the information and told the reporter that.  They might have said something like we are evaluating all of our options.  Could have even said, they are concerned Thomas will miss more time then they thought.  All of that is reasonable.  It could also explain why a reporter might read more into that and just assume the Cavs are going to ask for more and are considering voiding the trade, but none of that might be true.  I mean there are no reports of Cleveland actually asking Boston for more.  There have been no official statements.  There has been nothing indicating the Cavs thinks the Celtics were less than forthcoming.  Or anything else like that.

This just seems to be a media created story at this point.

[Atzar]

Cavs are going to get s rep of being ridiculous to work with. Bush league

The following is speculation.  So take it for what it's worth; nothing.

But my theory is that this is exactly what's happening, and it's why the Cavs seem to be waffling in every direction now.  I believe that Cleveland has more leverage in this trade, and that they could put Ainge in a very difficult spot if they choose to play hardball.  They could make Ainge choose between adding an asset to the package or taking back a resentful IT, whose value has been diminished in a very public manner. 

So Altman has Ainge by the balls, BUT he can't afford to be perceived amongst his peers as a snake.  He could hurt his future if he makes the wrong move.  GM relationships are important, and Cleveland is put at a severe disadvantage if Altman establishes himself as untrustworthy. 

So I think he's fishing.  He's looking for a way to spin this so that he can pinch another asset while looking like the good guy.  But I'm not sure that he can do that. 




Or he just doesn't like what he saw from IT's physical and he's balking.  Who knows at this point?

or maybe just maybe this is much ado about nothing.  What I mean is maybe the Cavs had Thomas in for his physical.  And when someone asked them about it, the Cavs knew it would take some time to go through all of the information and told the reporter that.  They might have said something like we are evaluating all of our options.  Could have even said, they are concerned Thomas will miss more time then they thought.  All of that is reasonable.  It could also explain why a reporter might read more into that and just assume the Cavs are going to ask for more and are considering voiding the trade, but none of that might be true.  I mean there are no reports of Cleveland actually asking Boston for more.  There have been no official statements.  There has been nothing indicating the Cavs thinks the Celtics were less than forthcoming.  Or anything else like that.

This just seems to be a media created story at this point.

Completely plausible.  This is all just water cooler talk until somebody actually does something.

[Big333223]

I'm now convinced this is what happened:

1. Danny negotiates and conveys all the information he has about IT's hip;
2. Cavs agree to trade with full knowledge of the risks/concerns;
3. Lebron contacts management and expresses delight in playing with IT;
4. GM says "well...IT has a bad hip and might be substantially diminished next year";
5. Lebron freaks out..."What!?!?! I didn't know that? You have to go back and get more from them!";
6. Cavs management puts out announcement that IT is hurt and they're seeking more, knowing full well it's nonsense, to placate Lebron.

In other things, this is a farce with an audience of one, like 95% of everything that happens in Cleveland.

Replace "LeBron" with "Dan Gilbert."

Yeah, this is what I think.

[hpantazo]

One thing to keep in mind re: this report that "the Cavs didn't get any new information from the physical."


Take two doctors, each paid by people on different sides of a deal / dispute.

Provide them with the same medical records and examination findings.

Get two very different sets of conclusions and recommendations for treatment.


Take it from somebody who deals with that type of scenario every single day in his job.

This is the most likely explanation imo. The Cavs doctors may believe IT should have surgery, and thus would miss most of the season, whereas the Celtics doctors, with the same medical info, may think he can recover well enough without surgery. IT also I'm sure doesn't want surgery because that would kill his chance at a max deal. Still, if the Cavs had the same info before that their doctors found and still submitted the trade, the NBA should force them to go through with it. No new info came out of the physical.

[Fafnir]

The only way the C's can end the trade is if we fail Kyrie on his physical, which I have heard no issues with.

[hpantazo]

This article has what appears to be the most sensible and accurate explanation of the whole issue. It really sounds like neither team is angry, both want to go ahead with the trade. Clevelands doctors belive IT will likely miss most of the season, and since his salary puts them into luxury tax they don't want to pay that for a guy who doesn't even play this season. They want a future first to be able to package it with Shumpert to clear his 10 million off their books and also open a roster spot. Sounds fair to me.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-what-is-next-for-the-celtics-and-cavs/

[Wretch]

I'm now convinced this is what happened:

1. Danny negotiates and conveys all the information he has about IT's hip;
2. Cavs agree to trade with full knowledge of the risks/concerns;
3. Lebron contacts management and expresses delight in playing with IT;
4. GM says "well...IT has a bad hip and might be substantially diminished next year";
5. Lebron freaks out..."What!?!?! I didn't know that? You have to go back and get more from them!";
6. Cavs management puts out announcement that IT is hurt and they're seeking more, knowing full well it's nonsense, to placate Lebron.

In other things, this is a farce with an audience of one, like 95% of everything that happens in Cleveland.

If this is the case then I think that could be why there was a reported demand for Tatum or Brown.  LBJ wants players not picks. Someone who can play/contribute now versus a pick that will likely take years to develop.

Tatum WILL probably take years to develop.

Not disagreement from me, but he at least can play this year.

[arctic 3.0]

This article has what appears to be the most sensible and accurate explanation of the whole issue. It really sounds like neither team is angry, both want to go ahead with the trade. Clevelands doctors belive IT will likely miss most of the season, and since his salary puts them into luxury tax they don't want to pay that for a guy who doesn't even play this season. They want a future first to be able to package it with Shumpert to clear his 10 million off their books and also open a roster spot. Sounds fair to me.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-what-is-next-for-the-celtics-and-cavs/

after the fact they realize they are over the luxury tax threshold and could benefit from an extra pick to help move shump?
Should have addressed that before terms were agreed

[Fafnir]

This article has what appears to be the most sensible and accurate explanation of the whole issue. It really sounds like neither team is angry, both want to go ahead with the trade. Clevelands doctors belive IT will likely miss most of the season, and since his salary puts them into luxury tax they don't want to pay that for a guy who doesn't even play this season. They want a future first to be able to package it with Shumpert to clear his 10 million off their books and also open a roster spot. Sounds fair to me.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-what-is-next-for-the-celtics-and-cavs/

LOL at them phrasing their tax situation like that. This trade saves them money already.