WojBomb - Cavs evaluating options after IT physical...

[Tr1boy]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/articles.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/08/kyrie_irving_trade_cavaliers_f.amp

Another blooper by Woj?

Hayward and now potentially this

[Fafnir]

I'm now convinced this is what happened:

1. Danny negotiates and conveys all the information he has about IT's hip;
2. Cavs agree to trade with full knowledge of the risks/concerns;
3. Lebron contacts management and expresses delight in playing with IT;
4. GM says "well...IT has a bad hip and might be substantially diminished next year";
5. Lebron freaks out..."What!?!?! I didn't know that? You have to go back and get more from them!";
6. Cavs management puts out announcement that IT is hurt and they're seeking more, knowing full well it's nonsense, to placate Lebron.

In other things, this is a farce with an audience of one, like 95% of everything that happens in Cleveland.

Replace LBJ with Dan Gilbert and maybe that's what happened.

LBJ doesn't care about future low firsts or Tatum. Nor do I think he's that involved in the granular details of trade and salary management. Dan Gilbert however has been in the past and likely still is.

[Fafnir]

The Hayward thing wasn't Woj getting anything wrong. Haywards camp leaked it early to Chris Haynes, they freaked out about it and then his agent called/texted EVERYONE, (Zach Lowe, Stein, Woj), and said it wasn't done.

That was a player/agent driven snafu. Hayward/Agent can play up he didn't make up his mind yadda yadda but they're just lying.

[j804]

This article has what appears to be the most sensible and accurate explanation of the whole issue. It really sounds like neither team is angry, both want to go ahead with the trade. Clevelands doctors belive IT will likely miss most of the season, and since his salary puts them into luxury tax they don't want to pay that for a guy who doesn't even play this season. They want a future first to be able to package it with Shumpert to clear his 10 million off their books and also open a roster spot. Sounds fair to me.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-what-is-next-for-the-celtics-and-cavs/

Wow so this is far from being complete. Deal doesn't sound close.

[Atzar]

This article has what appears to be the most sensible and accurate explanation of the whole issue. It really sounds like neither team is angry, both want to go ahead with the trade. Clevelands doctors belive IT will likely miss most of the season, and since his salary puts them into luxury tax they don't want to pay that for a guy who doesn't even play this season. They want a future first to be able to package it with Shumpert to clear his 10 million off their books and also open a roster spot. Sounds fair to me.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-what-is-next-for-the-celtics-and-cavs/

It's sensible if you accept Cleveland's reported diagnosis - that IT probably gives them little or nothing this year, and that he's therefore just an expiring contract. 

If that is true, then a late first to help along a Shumpert trade does seem fair.

But then there's the possibility that IT plays most of the season at or near an All-Star level.  And if that's the case, the Celtics shouldn't give up anything else, and arguably have already given up too much. 

And there's the rub.

[Moranis]

This article has what appears to be the most sensible and accurate explanation of the whole issue. It really sounds like neither team is angry, both want to go ahead with the trade. Clevelands doctors belive IT will likely miss most of the season, and since his salary puts them into luxury tax they don't want to pay that for a guy who doesn't even play this season. They want a future first to be able to package it with Shumpert to clear his 10 million off their books and also open a roster spot. Sounds fair to me.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-what-is-next-for-the-celtics-and-cavs/

It's sensible if you accept Cleveland's diagnosis - that IT probably gives them little or nothing this year, and that he's therefore just an expiring contract. 

If that is true, then a late first to help along a Shumpert trade does seem fair.

But then there's the possibility that IT plays most of the season at or near an All-Star level.  And if that's the case, the Celtics shouldn't give up anything else, and arguably have already given up too much. 

And there's the rub.

If that is the issue, why not just make a conditional first based on playing time.  Or is that only allowed in the NFL and not the NBA?

[Atzar]

This article has what appears to be the most sensible and accurate explanation of the whole issue. It really sounds like neither team is angry, both want to go ahead with the trade. Clevelands doctors belive IT will likely miss most of the season, and since his salary puts them into luxury tax they don't want to pay that for a guy who doesn't even play this season. They want a future first to be able to package it with Shumpert to clear his 10 million off their books and also open a roster spot. Sounds fair to me.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-what-is-next-for-the-celtics-and-cavs/

It's sensible if you accept Cleveland's diagnosis - that IT probably gives them little or nothing this year, and that he's therefore just an expiring contract. 

If that is true, then a late first to help along a Shumpert trade does seem fair.

But then there's the possibility that IT plays most of the season at or near an All-Star level.  And if that's the case, the Celtics shouldn't give up anything else, and arguably have already given up too much. 

And there's the rub.

If that is the issue, why not just make a conditional first based on playing time.  Or is that only allowed in the NFL and not the NBA?

The same thought occurred to me, and was originally in my post (and I also have no idea if it's legal or not).  I deleted it because it doesn't address Cleveland's desire for cap relief.

If you believe the article hpantazo linked, Cleveland wants a pick to package with Shumpert so they can get under the lux tax.  But they need to make that move ASAP, and they can't trade a pick that they don't have yet.  So they can't afford to wait to see how many games IT plays before shedding salary.  A conditional pick doesn't address their needs. 

[Fafnir]

Honestly a low first probably isn't enough to move Shumpert, no one wants him.

[jpotter33]

I'm just finding all of this quietness the last few days suspicious.

Reports are that Cleveland hasn't even reengaged Boston yet, so it seems like they're out shopping around for a better deal at the moment, which I think is BS.

[Fafnir]

I'm just finding all of this quietness the last few days suspicious.

Reports are that Cleveland hasn't even reengaged Boston yet, so it seems like they're out shopping around for a better deal at the moment, which I think is BS.

Yeah that seems like they play they're making now if they aren't actively talking to Boston at the moment. Alternately they're just trying to make BOS sweat and will call them Wednesday night.

Crappy move either way.

[celticinorlando]

They will not get as good a deal from anyone else. James is gone and that pick is vital to their rebuild.

[kraidstar]

This article has what appears to be the most sensible and accurate explanation of the whole issue. It really sounds like neither team is angry, both want to go ahead with the trade. Clevelands doctors belive IT will likely miss most of the season, and since his salary puts them into luxury tax they don't want to pay that for a guy who doesn't even play this season. They want a future first to be able to package it with Shumpert to clear his 10 million off their books and also open a roster spot. Sounds fair to me.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-what-is-next-for-the-celtics-and-cavs/

after the fact they realize they are over the luxury tax threshold and could benefit from an extra pick to help move shump?
Should have addressed that before terms were agreed

TP

Their tax issues are NOT our problem. We are NOT a charity.

Don't give an inch, Danny!

[celticinorlando]

I'm just finding all of this quietness the last few days suspicious.

Reports are that Cleveland hasn't even reengaged Boston yet, so it seems like they're out shopping around for a better deal at the moment, which I think is BS.

Yeah that seems like they play they're making now if they aren't actively talking to Boston at the moment. Alternately they're just trying to make BOS sweat and will call them Wednesday night.

Crappy move either way.

Let them shop. They are not going to find anything better. This just adds to how poorly the Cavs are run:

1. Fired Griffin...p---ed off best player in the world
2. Let Kyrie and company turn the team into a swamp
3. Had a deal in place for Paul George but it was not good enough for the Cavs. p---ed star player off even more.
4. Now this. Making a deal and then trying to cock block it for whatever reason.

[slamtheking]

This article has what appears to be the most sensible and accurate explanation of the whole issue. It really sounds like neither team is angry, both want to go ahead with the trade. Clevelands doctors belive IT will likely miss most of the season, and since his salary puts them into luxury tax they don't want to pay that for a guy who doesn't even play this season. They want a future first to be able to package it with Shumpert to clear his 10 million off their books and also open a roster spot. Sounds fair to me.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-what-is-next-for-the-celtics-and-cavs/

It's sensible if you accept Cleveland's diagnosis - that IT probably gives them little or nothing this year, and that he's therefore just an expiring contract. 

If that is true, then a late first to help along a Shumpert trade does seem fair.

But then there's the possibility that IT plays most of the season at or near an All-Star level.  And if that's the case, the Celtics shouldn't give up anything else, and arguably have already given up too much. 

And there's the rub.

If that is the issue, why not just make a conditional first based on playing time.  Or is that only allowed in the NFL and not the NBA?

The same thought occurred to me, and was originally in my post (and I also have no idea if it's legal or not).  I deleted it because it doesn't address Cleveland's desire for cap relief.

If you believe the article hpantazo linked, Cleveland wants a pick to package with Shumpert so they can get under the lux tax.  But they need to make that move ASAP, and they can't trade a pick that they don't have yet.  So they can't afford to wait to see how many games IT plays before shedding salary.  A conditional pick doesn't address their needs. 

too bad for Cleveland's cap situation.  didn't see anyone around the league sharing sympathies when we lost AB for salary cap issues (arguments about not wanting to pay him are a separate issue but with IT going out in a trade, having AB next to Kyrie would have been ideal)

[KGBirdBias]

Told you guys the Cavs are out shopping. Either void the deal or certify the deal. They're trying to play Ainge.