Proposal 2017 Nets pick (if 3-4 position) - for Gordon or Saric?

[Dannys Chipotle Guy]

With all due respect, given the OP's two proposals, how did this thread evolve to7 pages?

People love winning easy arguments.

Also, while pretty much everyone can agree that this would be an awful awful trade, Saric and Gordon are two interesting players who are interesting to debate. Thats where most of the 7 pages has come from. Ive yet to see anyone really make a half-decent argument in favor of the trade.

[Tr1boy]

What a weird thread.

Gordon and Saric are both good young players who still have potential, but neither is worth the #4 pick in this draft.

Even ignoring the strength of talent at the top of this draft, you have to discount each just because of where they are in their contracts compared to full rookie contract control over the pick.

When you look at the talent, Gordon is an extremely gifted athlete who still has a lot of 'potential', but needs to be in a system that fits him.  I liked him coming out of college, but don't see him being a good fit at all with how the Cs play.  He still has time to improve his skills and maybe he could be developed to be a better fit, but he's about to get paid on his next contract.  That becomes an expensive gamble on development.  I don't think I'm in for that and certainly not for the #4 pick.

In a way I feel like Gordon has been screwed by having his rookie contract development time spent on bad team that did not really develop certain necessary skills in him that would make him a much more valuable pro.   Or maybe he just doesn't have the ability for those skills.  At any rate, I don't think it makes sense to give up a hugely valuable pick and then have to sign him to a much larger mid-career contract on the gamble that he still might be able to develop his missing tools.

Saric, on the other hand, is someone whose game I think would be a great fit for the Cs.  I've liked his skill set, his overall game for years.   Love his attitude on the court as well.  But again, no way do I think he's worth the #4 overall pick.   He's a guy I'd definitely be willing to give a lower pick, like a 10 - 15 pick for.  But we don't have anything like that.

Is this what you think the 76ers will accept for Saric?

15th pick?? .

'Could care less what the 76ers would accept.  I stated what I would be willing to give.

Well that is a dream

Also dont think you have seen Saric play... In depth

He went 10th in the draft but mainly bc of his international status...

Saric is a top 5 talent. Not many guys his height can do the things he can

You don't know what you are talking about.  I've been watching Saric play since he was a prospect for the 2013 draft that he pulled out of.  I always have loved his game, as I said.  He's got a fantastic skill set for the modern NBA and is a beast who plays like he thinks he's the best on the floor.   I have frequently commented on these boards and on the front page threads that he has been the one Sixer I'd be most intrigued to acquire.  While others talked about Okafor and Noel, I would pine for Saric's rights even while he was stashed.

But he's already one year down on his rookie contract.   That discounts his value.   And as much as I like him, he doesn't have the upside of the elites at the tope of this draft.  He's not worth the full rookie contract control over a top 4 pick in this draft, which is very very strong through the top 8 or so picks.

This is not hard math.

It's perfectly reasonable to respond to the price I would give for him by saying, "Then that trade won't happen."

But neither will a trade of a top 4 pick in this draft for him.

Which means a trade for Saric won't happen.   So are we done with this fantasy yet?

So say its Tatum with the 4th pick. His defense needs work. When is it likely he going to start making a contribution? 

Lets say its DeAaron Fox. When would he start contributing past the walls of IT4, AB , Smart etc.

If celts trade for Saric..when will he start contributing/making an impact?

[Dannys Chipotle Guy]

What a weird thread.

Gordon and Saric are both good young players who still have potential, but neither is worth the #4 pick in this draft.

Even ignoring the strength of talent at the top of this draft, you have to discount each just because of where they are in their contracts compared to full rookie contract control over the pick.

When you look at the talent, Gordon is an extremely gifted athlete who still has a lot of 'potential', but needs to be in a system that fits him.  I liked him coming out of college, but don't see him being a good fit at all with how the Cs play.  He still has time to improve his skills and maybe he could be developed to be a better fit, but he's about to get paid on his next contract.  That becomes an expensive gamble on development.  I don't think I'm in for that and certainly not for the #4 pick.

In a way I feel like Gordon has been screwed by having his rookie contract development time spent on bad team that did not really develop certain necessary skills in him that would make him a much more valuable pro.   Or maybe he just doesn't have the ability for those skills.  At any rate, I don't think it makes sense to give up a hugely valuable pick and then have to sign him to a much larger mid-career contract on the gamble that he still might be able to develop his missing tools.

Saric, on the other hand, is someone whose game I think would be a great fit for the Cs.  I've liked his skill set, his overall game for years.   Love his attitude on the court as well.  But again, no way do I think he's worth the #4 overall pick.   He's a guy I'd definitely be willing to give a lower pick, like a 10 - 15 pick for.  But we don't have anything like that.

Is this what you think the 76ers will accept for Saric?

15th pick?? .

'Could care less what the 76ers would accept.  I stated what I would be willing to give.

Well that is a dream

Also dont think you have seen Saric play... In depth

He went 10th in the draft but mainly bc of his international status...

Saric is a top 5 talent. Not many guys his height can do the things he can

You don't know what you are talking about.  I've been watching Saric play since he was a prospect for the 2013 draft that he pulled out of.  I always have loved his game, as I said.  He's got a fantastic skill set for the modern NBA and is a beast who plays like he thinks he's the best on the floor.   I have frequently commented on these boards and on the front page threads that he has been the one Sixer I'd be most intrigued to acquire.  While others talked about Okafor and Noel, I would pine for Saric's rights even while he was stashed.

But he's already one year down on his rookie contract.   That discounts his value.   And as much as I like him, he doesn't have the upside of the elites at the tope of this draft.  He's not worth the full rookie contract control over a top 4 pick in this draft, which is very very strong through the top 8 or so picks.

This is not hard math.

It's perfectly reasonable to respond to the price I would give for him by saying, "Then that trade won't happen."

But neither will a trade of a top 4 pick in this draft for him.

Which means a trade for Saric won't happen.   So are we done with this fantasy yet?

So say its Tatum with the 4th pick. When is he going to make a contribution?   Right away?

Lets say its DeAaron Fox. When would he start contributing past the walls of IT4, AB , Smart etc.

If celts trade for Saric..when will he start contributing/making an impact?

Danny could have traded Jaylen Brown for Nerlens Noel.

He could have trade Terry Rozier for Serge Ibaka.

He could have traded the '17 pick for someone a whole lot better than Dario Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ing Saric.

Hield and Murray probably make impacts before Brown

You dont trade a stud prospect for a good prospect because one can help out before the other.

#4 is more valuable than Saric and its more valuable than Gordon and its not even close.

[Tr1boy]

What a weird thread.

Gordon and Saric are both good young players who still have potential, but neither is worth the #4 pick in this draft.

Even ignoring the strength of talent at the top of this draft, you have to discount each just because of where they are in their contracts compared to full rookie contract control over the pick.

When you look at the talent, Gordon is an extremely gifted athlete who still has a lot of 'potential', but needs to be in a system that fits him.  I liked him coming out of college, but don't see him being a good fit at all with how the Cs play.  He still has time to improve his skills and maybe he could be developed to be a better fit, but he's about to get paid on his next contract.  That becomes an expensive gamble on development.  I don't think I'm in for that and certainly not for the #4 pick.

In a way I feel like Gordon has been screwed by having his rookie contract development time spent on bad team that did not really develop certain necessary skills in him that would make him a much more valuable pro.   Or maybe he just doesn't have the ability for those skills.  At any rate, I don't think it makes sense to give up a hugely valuable pick and then have to sign him to a much larger mid-career contract on the gamble that he still might be able to develop his missing tools.

Saric, on the other hand, is someone whose game I think would be a great fit for the Cs.  I've liked his skill set, his overall game for years.   Love his attitude on the court as well.  But again, no way do I think he's worth the #4 overall pick.   He's a guy I'd definitely be willing to give a lower pick, like a 10 - 15 pick for.  But we don't have anything like that.

Is this what you think the 76ers will accept for Saric?

15th pick?? .

'Could care less what the 76ers would accept.  I stated what I would be willing to give.

Well that is a dream

Also dont think you have seen Saric play... In depth

He went 10th in the draft but mainly bc of his international status...

Saric is a top 5 talent. Not many guys his height can do the things he can

You don't know what you are talking about.  I've been watching Saric play since he was a prospect for the 2013 draft that he pulled out of.  I always have loved his game, as I said.  He's got a fantastic skill set for the modern NBA and is a beast who plays like he thinks he's the best on the floor.   I have frequently commented on these boards and on the front page threads that he has been the one Sixer I'd be most intrigued to acquire.  While others talked about Okafor and Noel, I would pine for Saric's rights even while he was stashed.

But he's already one year down on his rookie contract.   That discounts his value.   And as much as I like him, he doesn't have the upside of the elites at the tope of this draft.  He's not worth the full rookie contract control over a top 4 pick in this draft, which is very very strong through the top 8 or so picks.

This is not hard math.

It's perfectly reasonable to respond to the price I would give for him by saying, "Then that trade won't happen."

But neither will a trade of a top 4 pick in this draft for him.

Which means a trade for Saric won't happen.   So are we done with this fantasy yet?

So say its Tatum with the 4th pick. When is he going to make a contribution?   Right away?

Lets say its DeAaron Fox. When would he start contributing past the walls of IT4, AB , Smart etc.

If celts trade for Saric..when will he start contributing/making an impact?

Danny could have traded Jaylen Brown for Nerlens Noel.

He could have trade Terry Rozier for Serge Ibaka.

He could have traded the '17 pick for someone a whole lot better than Dario ****ing Saric.

Hield and Murray probably make impacts before Brown

You dont trade a stud prospect for a good prospect because one can help out before the other.

#4 is more valuable than Saric and its more valuable than Gordon and its not even close.

I would take Brown over Hield or Murray. Better defender and chance to be a better two way players. .. fortunate or not , ahead of the curve due to playoff experience

[Ilikesports17]

This is just really dumb from a value perspective. The idea of going after Saric isn't dumb but going after him with this pick is really dumb.

Last year a poster wanted to trade nets '17 for Noel. It's the same idea. I like going after the player, but that price is just bad business. Can't do it. Easy choice.

[Ilikesports17]

What a weird thread.

Gordon and Saric are both good young players who still have potential, but neither is worth the #4 pick in this draft.

Even ignoring the strength of talent at the top of this draft, you have to discount each just because of where they are in their contracts compared to full rookie contract control over the pick.

When you look at the talent, Gordon is an extremely gifted athlete who still has a lot of 'potential', but needs to be in a system that fits him.  I liked him coming out of college, but don't see him being a good fit at all with how the Cs play.  He still has time to improve his skills and maybe he could be developed to be a better fit, but he's about to get paid on his next contract.  That becomes an expensive gamble on development.  I don't think I'm in for that and certainly not for the #4 pick.

In a way I feel like Gordon has been screwed by having his rookie contract development time spent on bad team that did not really develop certain necessary skills in him that would make him a much more valuable pro.   Or maybe he just doesn't have the ability for those skills.  At any rate, I don't think it makes sense to give up a hugely valuable pick and then have to sign him to a much larger mid-career contract on the gamble that he still might be able to develop his missing tools.

Saric, on the other hand, is someone whose game I think would be a great fit for the Cs.  I've liked his skill set, his overall game for years.   Love his attitude on the court as well.  But again, no way do I think he's worth the #4 overall pick.   He's a guy I'd definitely be willing to give a lower pick, like a 10 - 15 pick for.  But we don't have anything like that.

Is this what you think the 76ers will accept for Saric?

15th pick?? .

'Could care less what the 76ers would accept.  I stated what I would be willing to give.

Well that is a dream

Also dont think you have seen Saric play... In depth

He went 10th in the draft but mainly bc of his international status...

Saric is a top 5 talent. Not many guys his height can do the things he can

You don't know what you are talking about.  I've been watching Saric play since he was a prospect for the 2013 draft that he pulled out of.  I always have loved his game, as I said.  He's got a fantastic skill set for the modern NBA and is a beast who plays like he thinks he's the best on the floor.   I have frequently commented on these boards and on the front page threads that he has been the one Sixer I'd be most intrigued to acquire.  While others talked about Okafor and Noel, I would pine for Saric's rights even while he was stashed.

But he's already one year down on his rookie contract.   That discounts his value.   And as much as I like him, he doesn't have the upside of the elites at the tope of this draft.  He's not worth the full rookie contract control over a top 4 pick in this draft, which is very very strong through the top 8 or so picks.

This is not hard math.

It's perfectly reasonable to respond to the price I would give for him by saying, "Then that trade won't happen."

But neither will a trade of a top 4 pick in this draft for him.

Which means a trade for Saric won't happen.   So are we done with this fantasy yet?

So say its Tatum with the 4th pick. When is he going to make a contribution?   Right away?

Lets say its DeAaron Fox. When would he start contributing past the walls of IT4, AB , Smart etc.

If celts trade for Saric..when will he start contributing/making an impact?

Danny could have traded Jaylen Brown for Nerlens Noel.

He could have trade Terry Rozier for Serge Ibaka.

He could have traded the '17 pick for someone a whole lot better than Dario ****ing Saric.

Hield and Murray probably make impacts before Brown

You dont trade a stud prospect for a good prospect because one can help out before the other.

#4 is more valuable than Saric and its more valuable than Gordon and its not even close.

I would take Brown over Hield or Murray. Better defender and chance to be a better two way players. .. fortunate or not , ahead of the curve due to playoff experience

*chance to be is key here.

Murray and Hield were both supposed to be more NBA ready.

Ainge chose to pick who he thought would be best, not who he thought would contribute the soonest.

[kozlodoev]

So say its Tatum with the 4th pick. His defense needs work. When is it likely he going to start making a contribution? 

Lets say its DeAaron Fox. When would he start contributing past the walls of IT4, AB , Smart etc.

If celts trade for Saric..when will he start contributing/making an impact?

Yes, this line of thinking got us Rodney Rogers and Kenny Anderson. How did those work work out for you?

[Dannys Chipotle Guy]

So say its Tatum with the 4th pick. His defense needs work. When is it likely he going to start making a contribution? 

Lets say its DeAaron Fox. When would he start contributing past the walls of IT4, AB , Smart etc.

If celts trade for Saric..when will he start contributing/making an impact?

Yes, this line of thinking got us Rodney Rogers and Kenny Anderson. How did those work work out for you?

TP

[dreamgreen]

I like Saric, not a fan of Gordon at this time. I wouldn't trade the pick for either of them but I'd be willing to listen to the idea of trading down a couple spots for Saric. But of course that all depends on a ton of variables.

[Darío SpanishFan]

So say its Tatum with the 4th pick. His defense needs work. When is it likely he going to start making a contribution? 

Lets say its DeAaron Fox. When would he start contributing past the walls of IT4, AB , Smart etc.

If celts trade for Saric..when will he start contributing/making an impact?

Yes, this line of thinking got us Rodney Rogers and Kenny Anderson. How did those work work out for you?

To be fair, it's not like that (as much as the OP is very bad thinking). Rodney Rogers worked horrible, but was a body for a playoff run which went well...and the owners didn't want to spend money to resign him.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Absolutely not.

Yes, I'd rather have Josh Jackson or Jayson Tatum than any of the names mentioned. I'd rather take a shot at Jonathan Isaac to be honest.

[kozlodoev]

So say its Tatum with the 4th pick. His defense needs work. When is it likely he going to start making a contribution? 

Lets say its DeAaron Fox. When would he start contributing past the walls of IT4, AB , Smart etc.

If celts trade for Saric..when will he start contributing/making an impact?

Yes, this line of thinking got us Rodney Rogers and Kenny Anderson. How did those work work out for you?

To be fair, it's not like that (as much as the OP is very bad thinking). Rodney Rogers worked horrible, but was a body for a playoff run which went well...and the owners didn't want to spend money to resign him.

Well, in both cases we traded superior young talent for inferior players so that "win now". The end result was that we didn't win (too much), and got to watch two guys that we drafted pretty high go and become all-NBA players on other teams. Talk about lose-lose.

Perhaps it's not exactly like that -- but I'm responding to a post where the OP pitched similar logic.

[ETNCeltics]

I'd rather stick with Tatum or Jackson, but IMO, Saric is going to become a star.

I wouldn't give up a 2nd rounder for Gordon. He's almost completely useless. Probably no better than Amir.

[Tr1boy]

So say its Tatum with the 4th pick. His defense needs work. When is it likely he going to start making a contribution? 

Lets say its DeAaron Fox. When would he start contributing past the walls of IT4, AB , Smart etc.

If celts trade for Saric..when will he start contributing/making an impact?

Yes, this line of thinking got us Rodney Rogers and Kenny Anderson. How did those work work out for you?

To be fair, it's not like that (as much as the OP is very bad thinking). Rodney Rogers worked horrible, but was a body for a playoff run which went well...and the owners didn't want to spend money to resign him.

Well, in both cases we traded superior young talent for inferior players so that "win now". The end result was that we didn't win (too much), and got to watch two guys that we drafted pretty high go and become all-NBA players on other teams. Talk about lose-lose.

Perhaps it's not exactly like that -- but I'm responding to a post where the OP pitched similar logic.

Exaggerate much?

I didnt exaggerate like you with the proposal... Gordon and Saric are rising stars...  Are past some of the growing pains...imo would fit under cbs system/ready to make immediate impact

[Ilikesports17]

So say its Tatum with the 4th pick. His defense needs work. When is it likely he going to start making a contribution? 

Lets say its DeAaron Fox. When would he start contributing past the walls of IT4, AB , Smart etc.

If celts trade for Saric..when will he start contributing/making an impact?

Yes, this line of thinking got us Rodney Rogers and Kenny Anderson. How did those work work out for you?

To be fair, it's not like that (as much as the OP is very bad thinking). Rodney Rogers worked horrible, but was a body for a playoff run which went well...and the owners didn't want to spend money to resign him.

Well, in both cases we traded superior young talent for inferior players so that "win now". The end result was that we didn't win (too much), and got to watch two guys that we drafted pretty high go and become all-NBA players on other teams. Talk about lose-lose.

Perhaps it's not exactly like that -- but I'm responding to a post where the OP pitched similar logic.

Exaggerate much?

I didnt exaggerate like you with the proposal... Gordon and Saric are rising stars...  Are past some of the growing pains...imo would fit under cbs system/ready to make immediate impact

Calling Gordon and Saric rising stars is an exaggeration in itself