Proposal 2017 Nets pick (if 3-4 position) - for Gordon or Saric?

[celticsclay]

What a weird thread.

Gordon and Saric are both good young players who still have potential, but neither is worth the #4 pick in this draft.

Even ignoring the strength of talent at the top of this draft, you have to discount each just because of where they are in their contracts compared to full rookie contract control over the pick.

When you look at the talent, Gordon is an extremely gifted athlete who still has a lot of 'potential', but needs to be in a system that fits him.  I liked him coming out of college, but don't see him being a good fit at all with how the Cs play.  He still has time to improve his skills and maybe he could be developed to be a better fit, but he's about to get paid on his next contract.  That becomes an expensive gamble on development.  I don't think I'm in for that and certainly not for the #4 pick.

In a way I feel like Gordon has been screwed by having his rookie contract development time spent on bad team that did not really develop certain necessary skills in him that would make him a much more valuable pro.   Or maybe he just doesn't have the ability for those skills.  At any rate, I don't think it makes sense to give up a hugely valuable pick and then have to sign him to a much larger mid-career contract on the gamble that he still might be able to develop his missing tools.

Saric, on the other hand, is someone whose game I think would be a great fit for the Cs.  I've liked his skill set, his overall game for years.   Love his attitude on the court as well.  But again, no way do I think he's worth the #4 overall pick.   He's a guy I'd definitely be willing to give a lower pick, like a 10 - 15 pick for.  But we don't have anything like that.

Is this what you think the 76ers will accept for Saric?

15th pick?? .

I honestly think they would probably take a pick in the 9-12 range if they liked a guy. They wouldn't even bother asking for a top 4 for him. I mean even Philly fans would be over the moon if they could get the 3rd or 4th pick for Saric. I am pretty baffled you think his value is that high. He is one of the oldest rookies in the league at 23 and came over NBA ready with an NBA body. He will still improve but he certainly isn't projected to be a future superstar but anyone at this point.

[mmmmm]

What a weird thread.

Gordon and Saric are both good young players who still have potential, but neither is worth the #4 pick in this draft.

Even ignoring the strength of talent at the top of this draft, you have to discount each just because of where they are in their contracts compared to full rookie contract control over the pick.

When you look at the talent, Gordon is an extremely gifted athlete who still has a lot of 'potential', but needs to be in a system that fits him.  I liked him coming out of college, but don't see him being a good fit at all with how the Cs play.  He still has time to improve his skills and maybe he could be developed to be a better fit, but he's about to get paid on his next contract.  That becomes an expensive gamble on development.  I don't think I'm in for that and certainly not for the #4 pick.

In a way I feel like Gordon has been screwed by having his rookie contract development time spent on bad team that did not really develop certain necessary skills in him that would make him a much more valuable pro.   Or maybe he just doesn't have the ability for those skills.  At any rate, I don't think it makes sense to give up a hugely valuable pick and then have to sign him to a much larger mid-career contract on the gamble that he still might be able to develop his missing tools.

Saric, on the other hand, is someone whose game I think would be a great fit for the Cs.  I've liked his skill set, his overall game for years.   Love his attitude on the court as well.  But again, no way do I think he's worth the #4 overall pick.   He's a guy I'd definitely be willing to give a lower pick, like a 10 - 15 pick for.  But we don't have anything like that.

Is this what you think the 76ers will accept for Saric?

15th pick?? .

'Could care less what the 76ers would accept.  I stated what I would be willing to give.

[Tr1boy]

What a weird thread.

Gordon and Saric are both good young players who still have potential, but neither is worth the #4 pick in this draft.

Even ignoring the strength of talent at the top of this draft, you have to discount each just because of where they are in their contracts compared to full rookie contract control over the pick.

When you look at the talent, Gordon is an extremely gifted athlete who still has a lot of 'potential', but needs to be in a system that fits him.  I liked him coming out of college, but don't see him being a good fit at all with how the Cs play.  He still has time to improve his skills and maybe he could be developed to be a better fit, but he's about to get paid on his next contract.  That becomes an expensive gamble on development.  I don't think I'm in for that and certainly not for the #4 pick.

In a way I feel like Gordon has been screwed by having his rookie contract development time spent on bad team that did not really develop certain necessary skills in him that would make him a much more valuable pro.   Or maybe he just doesn't have the ability for those skills.  At any rate, I don't think it makes sense to give up a hugely valuable pick and then have to sign him to a much larger mid-career contract on the gamble that he still might be able to develop his missing tools.

Saric, on the other hand, is someone whose game I think would be a great fit for the Cs.  I've liked his skill set, his overall game for years.   Love his attitude on the court as well.  But again, no way do I think he's worth the #4 overall pick.   He's a guy I'd definitely be willing to give a lower pick, like a 10 - 15 pick for.  But we don't have anything like that.

Is this what you think the 76ers will accept for Saric?

15th pick?? .

'Could care less what the 76ers would accept.  I stated what I would be willing to give.

Well that is a dream

Also dont think you have seen Saric play... In depth

He went 10th in the draft but mainly bc of his international status...

Saric is a top 5 talent. Not many guys his height can do the things he can

[Moranis]

What a weird thread.

Gordon and Saric are both good young players who still have potential, but neither is worth the #4 pick in this draft.

Even ignoring the strength of talent at the top of this draft, you have to discount each just because of where they are in their contracts compared to full rookie contract control over the pick.

When you look at the talent, Gordon is an extremely gifted athlete who still has a lot of 'potential', but needs to be in a system that fits him.  I liked him coming out of college, but don't see him being a good fit at all with how the Cs play.  He still has time to improve his skills and maybe he could be developed to be a better fit, but he's about to get paid on his next contract.  That becomes an expensive gamble on development.  I don't think I'm in for that and certainly not for the #4 pick.

In a way I feel like Gordon has been screwed by having his rookie contract development time spent on bad team that did not really develop certain necessary skills in him that would make him a much more valuable pro.   Or maybe he just doesn't have the ability for those skills.  At any rate, I don't think it makes sense to give up a hugely valuable pick and then have to sign him to a much larger mid-career contract on the gamble that he still might be able to develop his missing tools.

Saric, on the other hand, is someone whose game I think would be a great fit for the Cs.  I've liked his skill set, his overall game for years.   Love his attitude on the court as well.  But again, no way do I think he's worth the #4 overall pick.   He's a guy I'd definitely be willing to give a lower pick, like a 10 - 15 pick for.  But we don't have anything like that.

Is this what you think the 76ers will accept for Saric?

15th pick?? .

I honestly think they would probably take a pick in the 9-12 range if they liked a guy. They wouldn't even bother asking for a top 4 for him. I mean even Philly fans would be over the moon if they could get the 3rd or 4th pick for Saric. I am pretty baffled you think his value is that high. He is one of the oldest rookies in the league at 23 and came over NBA ready with an NBA body. He will still improve but he certainly isn't projected to be a future superstar but anyone at this point.

this is just nonsense. Post all star break Saric averaged 17.3/7.3/3.6 in just over 30 mpg starting all 25 games he played.  This as a rookie. Sure an older rookie but still a rookie. You would easily expect better numbers as his efficiency increases with experience. 

[konkmv]

You can get a buttler or george with 3 or 4 and some more.... keep the pick

[Ilikesports17]

What a weird thread.

Gordon and Saric are both good young players who still have potential, but neither is worth the #4 pick in this draft.

Even ignoring the strength of talent at the top of this draft, you have to discount each just because of where they are in their contracts compared to full rookie contract control over the pick.

When you look at the talent, Gordon is an extremely gifted athlete who still has a lot of 'potential', but needs to be in a system that fits him.  I liked him coming out of college, but don't see him being a good fit at all with how the Cs play.  He still has time to improve his skills and maybe he could be developed to be a better fit, but he's about to get paid on his next contract.  That becomes an expensive gamble on development.  I don't think I'm in for that and certainly not for the #4 pick.

In a way I feel like Gordon has been screwed by having his rookie contract development time spent on bad team that did not really develop certain necessary skills in him that would make him a much more valuable pro.   Or maybe he just doesn't have the ability for those skills.  At any rate, I don't think it makes sense to give up a hugely valuable pick and then have to sign him to a much larger mid-career contract on the gamble that he still might be able to develop his missing tools.

Saric, on the other hand, is someone whose game I think would be a great fit for the Cs.  I've liked his skill set, his overall game for years.   Love his attitude on the court as well.  But again, no way do I think he's worth the #4 overall pick.   He's a guy I'd definitely be willing to give a lower pick, like a 10 - 15 pick for.  But we don't have anything like that.

Is this what you think the 76ers will accept for Saric?

15th pick?? .

I honestly think they would probably take a pick in the 9-12 range if they liked a guy. They wouldn't even bother asking for a top 4 for him. I mean even Philly fans would be over the moon if they could get the 3rd or 4th pick for Saric. I am pretty baffled you think his value is that high. He is one of the oldest rookies in the league at 23 and came over NBA ready with an NBA body. He will still improve but he certainly isn't projected to be a future superstar but anyone at this point.

this is just nonsense. Post all star break Saric averaged 17.3/7.3/3.6 in just over 30 mpg starting all 25 games he played.  This as a rookie. Sure an older rookie but still a rookie. You would easily expect better numbers as his efficiency increases with experience.

Post all-star break on a garbage team isnt that impressive.

hes an older rookie who has been playing in competitive professional  league's for years.

He will grow less than most.

All that said, I dont see why Philly trades him. Hes a terrific role player. He should continue to be one. You can stick him in as your starting 4 for the next decade.

Only problem would be that Simmons should be your 4, and Saric doesnt really have another position.

Thats not enough of a roster jam to trade Saric tho.

[PhoSita]

Gordon or Saric?  For a top 4 pick in this draft?


Surely you jest.

[Dannys Chipotle Guy]

Gordon or Saric?  For a top 4 pick in this draft?


Surely you jest.

my favorite part is that in the beginning of the OP, he justifies why he thinks Orlando and Philly might be willing to make this move.

[Future Celtics Owner]

What a weird thread.

Gordon and Saric are both good young players who still have potential, but neither is worth the #4 pick in this draft.

Even ignoring the strength of talent at the top of this draft, you have to discount each just because of where they are in their contracts compared to full rookie contract control over the pick.

When you look at the talent, Gordon is an extremely gifted athlete who still has a lot of 'potential', but needs to be in a system that fits him.  I liked him coming out of college, but don't see him being a good fit at all with how the Cs play.  He still has time to improve his skills and maybe he could be developed to be a better fit, but he's about to get paid on his next contract.  That becomes an expensive gamble on development.  I don't think I'm in for that and certainly not for the #4 pick.

In a way I feel like Gordon has been screwed by having his rookie contract development time spent on bad team that did not really develop certain necessary skills in him that would make him a much more valuable pro.   Or maybe he just doesn't have the ability for those skills.  At any rate, I don't think it makes sense to give up a hugely valuable pick and then have to sign him to a much larger mid-career contract on the gamble that he still might be able to develop his missing tools.

Saric, on the other hand, is someone whose game I think would be a great fit for the Cs.  I've liked his skill set, his overall game for years.   Love his attitude on the court as well.  But again, no way do I think he's worth the #4 overall pick.   He's a guy I'd definitely be willing to give a lower pick, like a 10 - 15 pick for.  But we don't have anything like that.

Is this what you think the 76ers will accept for Saric?

15th pick?? .

I honestly think they would probably take a pick in the 9-12 range if they liked a guy. They wouldn't even bother asking for a top 4 for him. I mean even Philly fans would be over the moon if they could get the 3rd or 4th pick for Saric. I am pretty baffled you think his value is that high. He is one of the oldest rookies in the league at 23 and came over NBA ready with an NBA body. He will still improve but he certainly isn't projected to be a future superstar but anyone at this point.

this is just nonsense. Post all star break Saric averaged 17.3/7.3/3.6 in just over 30 mpg starting all 25 games he played.  This as a rookie. Sure an older rookie but still a rookie. You would easily expect better numbers as his efficiency increases with experience.

Post all-star break on a garbage team isnt that impressive.

hes an older rookie who has been playing in competitive professional  league's for years.

He will grow less than most.

All that said, I dont see why Philly trades him. Hes a terrific role player. He should continue to be one. You can stick him in as your starting 4 for the next decade.

Only problem would be that Simmons should be your 4, and Saric doesnt really have another position.

Thats not enough of a roster jam to trade Saric tho.

MMMMM mentioned contracts but Saric's contract only started when he came over this season. Gordon and Saric do not have an equal amount of years left on rookie contract. IMO he is worth more than the end of the lottery pick but def not anything in the top 5.

[Celtics4ever]

I would pass on this deal and it does not depend where we pick 1-4.

[Irish Stew]

With all due respect, given the OP's two proposals, how did this thread evolve to7 pages?

[Tr1boy]

What a weird thread.

Gordon and Saric are both good young players who still have potential, but neither is worth the #4 pick in this draft.

Even ignoring the strength of talent at the top of this draft, you have to discount each just because of where they are in their contracts compared to full rookie contract control over the pick.

When you look at the talent, Gordon is an extremely gifted athlete who still has a lot of 'potential', but needs to be in a system that fits him.  I liked him coming out of college, but don't see him being a good fit at all with how the Cs play.  He still has time to improve his skills and maybe he could be developed to be a better fit, but he's about to get paid on his next contract.  That becomes an expensive gamble on development.  I don't think I'm in for that and certainly not for the #4 pick.

In a way I feel like Gordon has been screwed by having his rookie contract development time spent on bad team that did not really develop certain necessary skills in him that would make him a much more valuable pro.   Or maybe he just doesn't have the ability for those skills.  At any rate, I don't think it makes sense to give up a hugely valuable pick and then have to sign him to a much larger mid-career contract on the gamble that he still might be able to develop his missing tools.

Saric, on the other hand, is someone whose game I think would be a great fit for the Cs.  I've liked his skill set, his overall game for years.   Love his attitude on the court as well.  But again, no way do I think he's worth the #4 overall pick.   He's a guy I'd definitely be willing to give a lower pick, like a 10 - 15 pick for.  But we don't have anything like that.

Is this what you think the 76ers will accept for Saric?

15th pick?? .

I honestly think they would probably take a pick in the 9-12 range if they liked a guy. They wouldn't even bother asking for a top 4 for him. I mean even Philly fans would be over the moon if they could get the 3rd or 4th pick for Saric. I am pretty baffled you think his value is that high. He is one of the oldest rookies in the league at 23 and came over NBA ready with an NBA body. He will still improve but he certainly isn't projected to be a future superstar but anyone at this point.

this is just nonsense. Post all star break Saric averaged 17.3/7.3/3.6 in just over 30 mpg starting all 25 games he played.  This as a rookie. Sure an older rookie but still a rookie. You would easily expect better numbers as his efficiency increases with experience.

Post all-star break on a garbage team isnt that impressive.

hes an older rookie who has been playing in competitive professional  league's for years.

He will grow less than most.

All that said, I dont see why Philly trades him. Hes a terrific role player. He should continue to be one. You can stick him in as your starting 4 for the next decade.

Only problem would be that Simmons should be your 4, and Saric doesnt really have another position.

Thats not enough of a roster jam to trade Saric tho.

MMMMM mentioned contracts but Saric's contract only started when he came over this season. Gordon and Saric do not have an equal amount of years left on rookie contract. IMO he is worth more than the end of the lottery pick but def not anything in the top 5.

-Saric rookie contract could extend to 2010/2021
Long ways to go

[boscel33]

Crimson who did you have Danny choosing for last years draft?

Simmons, then Hield, then Dunn.

a) Simmons will be an excellent player
b) Hield was appealing enough to pluck Demarcus Cousins from Sacramento
c) Dunn still has 2-3 years to show what he can do

Even if I fail on point C, that's still a 2/3 success rate - I can still live with that, especially given that most of the draft class has looked garbage.

I was also one of the few who called it that Rozier had serious potential - and so far in these playoffs he's already started to flash that.

My biggest blowout was probably Smart - I predicted that he could develop a solid outside shot and develop into a borderline star (15 / 5 / 5 with an all-defense selection).  So far I've blown out on that one, although he has (at the very least) put up starter-like minutes on three playoff teams, which is more than I can say for anybody else taken top 6.  And if he ever DOES develop a solid outside shot, he probably would be far off from that prediction.

You weren't getting Simmons, Hield I think will become the next Korver, and with Dunn, keep in mind, he's 23 already so your 2-3 year development puts him on the wrong side of 25.

I was in JB's camp all along and am thrilled with how he has worked out.  Next year is going to be big for him.

[mmmmm]

What a weird thread.

Gordon and Saric are both good young players who still have potential, but neither is worth the #4 pick in this draft.

Even ignoring the strength of talent at the top of this draft, you have to discount each just because of where they are in their contracts compared to full rookie contract control over the pick.

When you look at the talent, Gordon is an extremely gifted athlete who still has a lot of 'potential', but needs to be in a system that fits him.  I liked him coming out of college, but don't see him being a good fit at all with how the Cs play.  He still has time to improve his skills and maybe he could be developed to be a better fit, but he's about to get paid on his next contract.  That becomes an expensive gamble on development.  I don't think I'm in for that and certainly not for the #4 pick.

In a way I feel like Gordon has been screwed by having his rookie contract development time spent on bad team that did not really develop certain necessary skills in him that would make him a much more valuable pro.   Or maybe he just doesn't have the ability for those skills.  At any rate, I don't think it makes sense to give up a hugely valuable pick and then have to sign him to a much larger mid-career contract on the gamble that he still might be able to develop his missing tools.

Saric, on the other hand, is someone whose game I think would be a great fit for the Cs.  I've liked his skill set, his overall game for years.   Love his attitude on the court as well.  But again, no way do I think he's worth the #4 overall pick.   He's a guy I'd definitely be willing to give a lower pick, like a 10 - 15 pick for.  But we don't have anything like that.

Is this what you think the 76ers will accept for Saric?

15th pick?? .

'Could care less what the 76ers would accept.  I stated what I would be willing to give.

Well that is a dream

Also dont think you have seen Saric play... In depth

He went 10th in the draft but mainly bc of his international status...

Saric is a top 5 talent. Not many guys his height can do the things he can

You don't know what you are talking about.  I've been watching Saric play since he was a prospect for the 2013 draft that he pulled out of.  I always have loved his game, as I said.  He's got a fantastic skill set for the modern NBA and is a beast who plays like he thinks he's the best on the floor.   I have frequently commented on these boards and on the front page threads that he has been the one Sixer I'd be most intrigued to acquire.  While others talked about Okafor and Noel, I would pine for Saric's rights even while he was stashed.

But he's already one year down on his rookie contract.   That discounts his value.   And as much as I like him, he doesn't have the upside of the elites at the tope of this draft.  He's not worth the full rookie contract control over a top 4 pick in this draft, which is very very strong through the top 8 or so picks.

This is not hard math.

It's perfectly reasonable to respond to the price I would give for him by saying, "Then that trade won't happen."

But neither will a trade of a top 4 pick in this draft for him.

Which means a trade for Saric won't happen.   So are we done with this fantasy yet?

[mmmmm]

What a weird thread.

Gordon and Saric are both good young players who still have potential, but neither is worth the #4 pick in this draft.

Even ignoring the strength of talent at the top of this draft, you have to discount each just because of where they are in their contracts compared to full rookie contract control over the pick.

When you look at the talent, Gordon is an extremely gifted athlete who still has a lot of 'potential', but needs to be in a system that fits him.  I liked him coming out of college, but don't see him being a good fit at all with how the Cs play.  He still has time to improve his skills and maybe he could be developed to be a better fit, but he's about to get paid on his next contract.  That becomes an expensive gamble on development.  I don't think I'm in for that and certainly not for the #4 pick.

In a way I feel like Gordon has been screwed by having his rookie contract development time spent on bad team that did not really develop certain necessary skills in him that would make him a much more valuable pro.   Or maybe he just doesn't have the ability for those skills.  At any rate, I don't think it makes sense to give up a hugely valuable pick and then have to sign him to a much larger mid-career contract on the gamble that he still might be able to develop his missing tools.

Saric, on the other hand, is someone whose game I think would be a great fit for the Cs.  I've liked his skill set, his overall game for years.   Love his attitude on the court as well.  But again, no way do I think he's worth the #4 overall pick.   He's a guy I'd definitely be willing to give a lower pick, like a 10 - 15 pick for.  But we don't have anything like that.

Is this what you think the 76ers will accept for Saric?

15th pick?? .

I honestly think they would probably take a pick in the 9-12 range if they liked a guy. They wouldn't even bother asking for a top 4 for him. I mean even Philly fans would be over the moon if they could get the 3rd or 4th pick for Saric. I am pretty baffled you think his value is that high. He is one of the oldest rookies in the league at 23 and came over NBA ready with an NBA body. He will still improve but he certainly isn't projected to be a future superstar but anyone at this point.

this is just nonsense. Post all star break Saric averaged 17.3/7.3/3.6 in just over 30 mpg starting all 25 games he played.  This as a rookie. Sure an older rookie but still a rookie. You would easily expect better numbers as his efficiency increases with experience.

Eh.  What were Okafor's rookie numbers again?  Oh yeah, 17.5/7 in 30 over 53 games.

Don't get me wrong, I like Saric.  But let's don't oversell here.