Proposal 2017 Nets pick (if 3-4 position) - for Gordon or Saric?

[Tr1boy]

Over the last several drafts Triboy has loved Trey Burke (said he was the next CP3, Aaron Gordon (said he was Blake Griffin with higher IQ), Mickey (said he would have his jersey retired in Boston), and Sabonis (compared him to multiple HOF's). So him NOT liking Tatum is actually a blessing and only makes me want to draft him more.

lol I was basically thinking the exact same thing, I just felt rude saying it lol

If eddie20 was danny , celts would be bankrupt

With his love for players like Poetl, Bender, Cliff Alexandre (not even on an nba roster)

[Tr1boy]

Crimson who did you have Danny choosing for last years draft? 

[crimson_stallion]

Crimson who did you have Danny choosing for last years draft?

Simmons, then Hield, then Dunn.

a) Simmons will be an excellent player
b) Hield was appealing enough to pluck Demarcus Cousins from Sacramento
c) Dunn still has 2-3 years to show what he can do

Even if I fail on point C, that's still a 2/3 success rate - I can still live with that, especially given that most of the draft class has looked garbage.

I was also one of the few who called it that Rozier had serious potential - and so far in these playoffs he's already started to flash that.

My biggest blowout was probably Smart - I predicted that he could develop a solid outside shot and develop into a borderline star (15 / 5 / 5 with an all-defense selection).  So far I've blown out on that one, although he has (at the very least) put up starter-like minutes on three playoff teams, which is more than I can say for anybody else taken top 6.  And if he ever DOES develop a solid outside shot, he probably would be far off from that prediction.

[Moranis]

I wouldn't do that for Gordon but might for Saric as I think he could be a very good player and definitely fills a need. We'd have only 1 less year and he would be cheaper possibly allowing for a max contract without giving up anyone other than the free agents.  If try to get something else in the trade though id prefer there pick if it was like 7 or 8 but would settle for Okafor or Covington.

[Tr1boy]

Crimson who did you have Danny choosing for last years draft?

Simmons, then Hield, then Dunn.

I can live with that. 

a) Simmons will be an excellent player
b) Hield was appealing enough to pluck Demarcus Cousins from Sacramento
c) Dunn still has 2-3 years to show he can be a starting calibre PG

Even if I fail on point C, I can still live with 2 out of 3.

Well I said Brown as one of the top choices

Not gloating... My pt is danny and cbs dont really care about what mocks etc say

Rozier, Brown picks should tell you this... 

[celticsclay]

Triboy all due respect but these guys are not even in the conversation for a top 4 pick like that. Gordon is going to have his salary jump up very soon. Even if he was a better player, the contract situation alone would be a huge negative. At this point he has not even proven he can be an average starter. You really have to go with a player with a cheaper contract and high upside before you can consider a move like that.

Saric is a really solid player but that just isn't good value for a 3rd or 4th pick in a loaded draft.

While I appreciate trying to start along conversation, it does not to be a lot more realistic in value for us to have good discussion on it.

[crimson_stallion]

Crimson who did you have Danny choosing for last years draft?

Simmons, then Hield, then Dunn.

I can live with that. 

a) Simmons will be an excellent player
b) Hield was appealing enough to pluck Demarcus Cousins from Sacramento
c) Dunn still has 2-3 years to show he can be a starting calibre PG

Even if I fail on point C, I can still live with 2 out of 3.

Well I said Brown as one of the top choices

Not gloating... My pt is danny and cbs dont really care about what mocks etc say

Rozier, Brown picks should tell you this...

I wouldn't gloat about Brown yet - he averaged 6.6 pts and 2.8 reb in 17 minutes (regular season) and 3.3 pts, 1.8 reb, 10.8 minutes (playoffs).

It's nice that he's contributing to a playoff team as a rookie, but his numbers are hardly standout, it's still not certain if he'll even make an All-Rookie team.
 
I expected Brown could give us some solid defence and a little bit of offence off the bench this year, and I expected that his outside shooting would be better then advertised.  That's mostly been the case.  I didn't expect him to put up the type of numbers expected of a top 3 pick (especially given the depth on this Celtics team) and that's pretty much been true as well. 

There's still been no indication that he has star potential, but it seems obvious that he's going to become a quality player: a solid two-way wing at the least. 

[crimson_stallion]

Triboy all due respect but these guys are not even in the conversation for a top 4 pick like that. Gordon is going to have his salary jump up very soon. Even if he was a better player, the contract situation alone would be a huge negative. At this point he has not even proven he can be an average starter. You really have to go with a player with a cheaper contract and high upside before you can consider a move like that.

Saric is a really solid player but that just isn't good value for a 3rd or 4th pick in a loaded draft.

While I appreciate trying to start along conversation, it does not to be a lot more realistic in value for us to have good discussion on it.

I agree.

I understand that once you go beyond #1 or #2, the value of a pick can drops significantly.  Albeit at the same time, it all depends on the draft's strength.  In Smart's draft you had Wiggins, Parker and Embiid - all three of those guys were seen as potential stars, and so a top 3 pick in that draft could have returned a LOT.

Last year's draft was seen as being much less deep, with a big drop off after the top 2, and so our #3 pick didn't pull in all that much interest.

This year I feel is somewhere in the middle.  I don't expect a #3 pick to necessarily bring us back a star player in a trade, but I do expect to get back AT LEAST a good starter.  I'm talking about a Jae Crowder / Avery Bradley / Greg Monroe calibre player at a minimum. 

Dario Saric / Aaron Gordon are fine players that would be able to find roles on most teams i'm sure, but they just aren't "good starter" level players - at least not yet.  Maybe they will be one day, but they aren't proven yet.  Now if you offered me Gordon/Saric in return for a pick in the 5-8 range, I would say fair enough.  But top 4? No way.

Likewise it was suggested that Saric and Gordon are obvious upgrades at PF - I'm not so sure.  Are those two guys genuinely better then Kelly Olynyk (who we COULD start alongside Horford)?   

Because Olynyk has been putting up very similar numbers to Gordon (10 pts, 5 reb) over his career so far, and has done so in far fewer minutes (20 MPG) on playoff teams - and his skill set is much better suited to Boston's play style given his ability to shoot, pass and handle the ball.

I'm honestly not convinced that Aaron Gordon is a better player right now then Kelly Olynyk is.  I'm not convinced that Saric is better either.  That's not even taking in to account Olynk's freak explosion today.  I don't see any reason to trade a VERY valuable asset for one of those guys, when we could just re-sign KO and give up nothing. 

Even if you try to argue those guys are better then Olynyk (I'm sure you could make up an argument if you really tried) you couldn't possible argue that they are MUCH better.  Olynyk is a 7 footer who can shoot, pass, handle the ball and defend - and while his rebounding is often criticised, he's still a much better rebounder then Saric or Gordon.

[footey]

Triboy, Thought you had more respect for Josh Jackson than that.

SMH

[MBunge]

Crimson who did you have Danny choosing for last years draft?

Simmons, then Hield, then Dunn.

a) Simmons will be an excellent player
b) Hield was appealing enough to pluck Demarcus Cousins from Sacramento
c) Dunn still has 2-3 years to show what he can do

Even if I fail on point C, that's still a 2/3 success rate - I can still live with that, especially given that most of the draft class has looked garbage.

Hold up on point B.  That the brain trust in Sacramento likes him is not exactly a ringing endorsement of Hield.

Mike

[Tr1boy]

Triboy, Thought you had more respect for Josh Jackson than that.

SMH

I like Jackson Footey. Just dont have a good vibe Danny is highly interested

[crimson_stallion]

Crimson who did you have Danny choosing for last years draft?

Simmons, then Hield, then Dunn.

a) Simmons will be an excellent player
b) Hield was appealing enough to pluck Demarcus Cousins from Sacramento
c) Dunn still has 2-3 years to show what he can do

Even if I fail on point C, that's still a 2/3 success rate - I can still live with that, especially given that most of the draft class has looked garbage.

Hold up on point B.  That the brain trust in Sacramento likes him is not exactly a ringing endorsement of Hield.

Mike

He averaged 10 pts and 3 reb on 43% / 39% / 84% shooting for the season - that's better then what most rookies (including Brown) managed.

Since the trade to Sacramento he averaged 15 PPG and 4 RPG on 48% / 43% / 81% shooting and was looking like a legit ROTY candidate over that stretch.

Plus it doesn't really matter how dumb the people in Sacramento are - fact is Divac was crazy over him, and if we had drafted Hield then Divac would have offered us Cousins in return for Hield and some spare parts...and it's hard to imagine "highway robbery Ainge" saying no to that.

Imagine how different this team would look right now going up against Cleveland with a Horford/Cousins front-court...

[mmmmm]

What a weird thread.

Gordon and Saric are both good young players who still have potential, but neither is worth the #4 pick in this draft.

Even ignoring the strength of talent at the top of this draft, you have to discount each just because of where they are in their contracts compared to full rookie contract control over the pick.

When you look at the talent, Gordon is an extremely gifted athlete who still has a lot of 'potential', but needs to be in a system that fits him.  I liked him coming out of college, but don't see him being a good fit at all with how the Cs play.  He still has time to improve his skills and maybe he could be developed to be a better fit, but he's about to get paid on his next contract.  That becomes an expensive gamble on development.  I don't think I'm in for that and certainly not for the #4 pick.

In a way I feel like Gordon has been screwed by having his rookie contract development time spent on bad team that did not really develop certain necessary skills in him that would make him a much more valuable pro.   Or maybe he just doesn't have the ability for those skills.  At any rate, I don't think it makes sense to give up a hugely valuable pick and then have to sign him to a much larger mid-career contract on the gamble that he still might be able to develop his missing tools.

Saric, on the other hand, is someone whose game I think would be a great fit for the Cs.  I've liked his skill set, his overall game for years.   Love his attitude on the court as well.  But again, no way do I think he's worth the #4 overall pick.   He's a guy I'd definitely be willing to give a lower pick, like a 10 - 15 pick for.  But we don't have anything like that.

[Tr1boy]

What a weird thread.

Gordon and Saric are both good young players who still have potential, but neither is worth the #4 pick in this draft.

Even ignoring the strength of talent at the top of this draft, you have to discount each just because of where they are in their contracts compared to full rookie contract control over the pick.

When you look at the talent, Gordon is an extremely gifted athlete who still has a lot of 'potential', but needs to be in a system that fits him.  I liked him coming out of college, but don't see him being a good fit at all with how the Cs play.  He still has time to improve his skills and maybe he could be developed to be a better fit, but he's about to get paid on his next contract.  That becomes an expensive gamble on development.  I don't think I'm in for that and certainly not for the #4 pick.

In a way I feel like Gordon has been screwed by having his rookie contract development time spent on bad team that did not really develop certain necessary skills in him that would make him a much more valuable pro.   Or maybe he just doesn't have the ability for those skills.  At any rate, I don't think it makes sense to give up a hugely valuable pick and then have to sign him to a much larger mid-career contract on the gamble that he still might be able to develop his missing tools.

Saric, on the other hand, is someone whose game I think would be a great fit for the Cs.  I've liked his skill set, his overall game for years.   Love his attitude on the court as well.  But again, no way do I think he's worth the #4 overall pick.   He's a guy I'd definitely be willing to give a lower pick, like a 10 - 15 pick for.  But we don't have anything like that.

Is this what you think the 76ers will accept for Saric?

15th pick?? .

[kozlodoev]

Is this what you think the 76ers will accept for Saric?

15th pick?? .

Why is this our problem?