Bucher: Bulls shopping Butler

[LarBrd33]

there's discussion on the bulls forum on realgm about this.
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1506883&p=51117856#p51117856


I offered:
2017 Brooklyn pick (currently #1, probably top 3 at season's end)
2019 Memphis pick (could be gold considering Gasol's age/health history)
Terry Rozier
Kelly Olynyk
Amir Johnson


and was abused multiple times, lol.

The reasonable replies are saying they'd want at the very least:
17' BRK pick
Brown
18' nets.

if we are keeping Smart, Bradley, Crowder.

Which in a way is sort of fair. Would suck to lose Brown, but we are hoping he turns into Butler eventually right?

IT
Bradley
Butler
Horford
Bogut or Lopez

with
Crowder
Smart
Rozier
KO
Zeller
Green
Jerebko

is better than the Raptors.

Look bottom line is that if Butler was worth three cracks at an allstar (2017 Brooklyn pick, Jaylen Brown and 2018 Brooklyn pick), the Bulls would be willing to build around him.  There's a reason why they are shopping him hard.  He's not a superstar.  He's not good enough to build around. I'm a firm "no" on any trade that includes the 2017 Brooklyn pick.  I'd rather keep the pick and use the cap space to go after Hayward this Summer.

You don't trade the farm for Premium Brand Ricky Davis.    If they want a package built around Jaylen and Smart, I'm ok with it, but I really do think Jaylen has a chance to be as good as Butler in 5 years and I really do think both Bradley and Crowder each individually give you about 75% of what Butler provides.

[jambr380]

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=88416.0

So as I said in this post^, I have a Chicago friend (also a diehard Bulls fan) who said he thinks Chicago will sell real soon, especially with a brutal stretch coming up (could push them out of the playoffs too). I asked him what he would want from Boston in a Jimmy Butler deal, and what he proposed actually sounds nice:

Boston Sends: Avery Bradley, Amir Johnson, 2017 Minnesota Second Rounder, 2018 Brooklyn Nets Pick, and 2019 Grizzlies OR Clippers First Rounder, another future second rounder

Chicago Sends: Jimmy Butler, either Taj Gibson/Robin Lopez

He said he's not sure the C's take Robin Lopez because Ainge probably wants to go into the summer with a max-contract slot available, and adding Lopez would make that impossible because he's under contract.

I mean, you keep the 2017 Nets Pick and Jaylen Brown.. and while you have to gulp while losing Bradley.. you get Butler at 19M/year for next 2.5 seasons, and it makes it easier to extend Isaiah Thomas and Marcus Smart going forward (after 2018).

What do you guys think of the idea?

Deal sounds great and I would be more than happy to bring in Gibson, but there would be no max salary slot next year even if we let him and KO walk. As part of the proposed deal, we only have $8M in salary going out for next year while bringing in $19M. Amir is expiring so he does not count against next year's cap.

I am not for it, but a deal that sends out AB, Crowder, and the '17 pick (or Brown) actually does leave that max (or almost max) slot open since all of them are signed through at least next year.

Would you take back Robin Lopez in the deal as well then? If we aren't going to have a max-salary slot available anyways?

You almost have to, right? I mean, in doing this deal with only one of AB/Crowder, we aren't going to have substantial money to offer a FA big next year. Getting Lopez would be a total win and I don't think Chicago would at all mind letting him go. He would slide right into Amir's spot - who I would hate to lose - but maybe we could convince him to come back on the cheap next year, too.

[Kuberski33]

Butler's not going anywhere.  He's got a guaranteed 5 year deal that's going to wind up being below market rate once the new collective bargaining agreement goes into effect. 

You change the coach, GM and then every other player on the roster before you move him.

[saltlover]

Butler's not going anywhere.  He's got a guaranteed 5 year deal that's going to wind up being below market rate once the new collective bargaining agreement goes into effect. 

You change the coach, GM and then every other player on the roster before you move him.

That might be why the current coach and GM want to move him before it's too late and the owner realizes.

[Kuberski33]

Butler's not going anywhere.  He's got a guaranteed 5 year deal that's going to wind up being below market rate once the new collective bargaining agreement goes into effect. 

You change the coach, GM and then every other player on the roster before you move him.

That might be why the current coach and GM want to move him before it's too late and the owner realizes.

Any deal to move Butler has to go through the owner and he tied his franchise's future to Butler when he gave him the 5 year contract.  As I said, that makes everyone else in the organization expendable.  Hoiberg's days as coach are numbered I'd say.

[jpotter33]

One thing to consider if deciding between AB and Crowder: Jae and Jimmy are not exactly best buds.

I was under the impression that they had a very good relationship

Same here, and I think they are. They had a spat earlier in the year in one of our games against them, but that was nothing big.

IIRC reports at the time were that they're not pals. I'll try to find an article.

Found it:

Just told by someone in the know that Jimmy Butler and Jae Crowder -- ex-Marquette teammates -- not exactly boys.

https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/791812523360194560

Tweet is from during the game in which the altercation occurred.

But if u scroll down thru the replies from that tweet...there is a pic of the 2 hanging out getting din din after a game......hmmmm

I really dunno much bout their relationship but interesting

So I guess we don't really know, but I did remember some mention of them not being particularly close.

Jeff Goodman isn't very reliable, and he has a pretty strong anti-Celtics bias that is well-known.

I remember Crowder talking after the incident about it, and he was talking about how he was surprised, too, since they are good friends.

EDIT: Here you go.  It was Butler saying Jae was his "guy" lol http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2016/10/boston_celtics_jae_crowder_on_1.html

They were teammates at Marquette, so I imagine they have a fairly good relationship.

[saltlover]

Butler's not going anywhere.  He's got a guaranteed 5 year deal that's going to wind up being below market rate once the new collective bargaining agreement goes into effect. 

You change the coach, GM and then every other player on the roster before you move him.

That might be why the current coach and GM want to move him before it's too late and the owner realizes.

Any deal to move Butler has to go through the owner and he tied his franchise's future Butler when he gave him the 5 year contract.  As I said, that makes everyone else in the organization expendable.  Hoiberg's days as coach are numbered I'd say.

I think you're completely misunderstanding the current power structure of the Bulls organization.  But we'll see before too long.

[Kuberski33]

Butler's not going anywhere.  He's got a guaranteed 5 year deal that's going to wind up being below market rate once the new collective bargaining agreement goes into effect. 

You change the coach, GM and then every other player on the roster before you move him.

That might be why the current coach and GM want to move him before it's too late and the owner realizes.

Any deal to move Butler has to go through the owner and he tied his franchise's future Butler when he gave him the 5 year contract.  As I said, that makes everyone else in the organization expendable.  Hoiberg's days as coach are numbered I'd say.

I think you're completely misunderstanding the current power structure of the Bulls organization.  But we'll see before too long.

I'm looking at it from a business standpoint.

[SHAQATTACK]

To bring Butler ,  I d say AB or Crowder would have to go no matter what ....they are redundant with Butler anyway

Also ,   At least ,One of the Nets picks has to go to Bulls  .....sure they'll want both. I see no way around it.


So the Battle is being able to keep Smart and Brown and the other Nets pick, hopefully 2017 pick.

I'd rather let KO , Rozier and Young and couple lesser picks go instead of any ONE of the above three assets.


We save the 2017 pick and take Giles or Fultz

[max215]

One thing to consider if deciding between AB and Crowder: Jae and Jimmy are not exactly best buds.

I was under the impression that they had a very good relationship

Same here, and I think they are. They had a spat earlier in the year in one of our games against them, but that was nothing big.

IIRC reports at the time were that they're not pals. I'll try to find an article.

Found it:

Just told by someone in the know that Jimmy Butler and Jae Crowder -- ex-Marquette teammates -- not exactly boys.

https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/791812523360194560

Tweet is from during the game in which the altercation occurred.

But if u scroll down thru the replies from that tweet...there is a pic of the 2 hanging out getting din din after a game......hmmmm

I really dunno much bout their relationship but interesting

So I guess we don't really know, but I did remember some mention of them not being particularly close.

Jeff Goodman isn't very reliable, and he has a pretty strong anti-Celtics bias that is well-known.

I remember Crowder talking after the incident about it, and he was talking about how he was surprised, too, since they are good friends.

EDIT: Here you go.  It was Butler saying Jae was his "guy" lol http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2016/10/boston_celtics_jae_crowder_on_1.html

They were teammates at Marquette, so I imagine they have a fairly good relationship.

I know about the "my guy" stuff, but I'm not sure how genuine it is. In all honesty, no one probably knows the true nature of their relationship outside of the two of them.

[Ilikesports17]

One thing to consider if deciding between AB and Crowder: Jae and Jimmy are not exactly best buds.

I was under the impression that they had a very good relationship

Same here, and I think they are. They had a spat earlier in the year in one of our games against them, but that was nothing big.

IIRC reports at the time were that they're not pals. I'll try to find an article.

Found it:

Just told by someone in the know that Jimmy Butler and Jae Crowder -- ex-Marquette teammates -- not exactly boys.

https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/791812523360194560

Tweet is from during the game in which the altercation occurred.

But if u scroll down thru the replies from that tweet...there is a pic of the 2 hanging out getting din din after a game......hmmmm

I really dunno much bout their relationship but interesting

So I guess we don't really know, but I did remember some mention of them not being particularly close.

Jeff Goodman isn't very reliable, and he has a pretty strong anti-Celtics bias that is well-known.

I remember Crowder talking after the incident about it, and he was talking about how he was surprised, too, since they are good friends.

EDIT: Here you go.  It was Butler saying Jae was his "guy" lol http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2016/10/boston_celtics_jae_crowder_on_1.html

They were teammates at Marquette, so I imagine they have a fairly good relationship.

They seem to be very good friends
https://www.instagram.com/p/BARJ6m1B7nC/?taken-by=jimmybutler&hl=en
https://www.instagram.com/p/BASrL0WMFP2/?taken-by=bossmann99&hl=en
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJ6fT_AAZ16/?taken-by=jimmybutler&hl=en
In the last one he is working out with Brown but uses the caption #imcomingforyoualsojaecrowder. Certainly doesnt seem like in a malicious way.
http://nbpa.com/life-on-mars-how-jae-crowder-has-carved-his-own-lane-with-the-celtics/

Beyond his family, Crowder has found motivation through one of his closest friends, Bulls star Jimmy Butler, who was his teammate at Marquette during the 2010-11 season. Between both players attending junior college and being overlooked in the NBA draft—Crowder was the 34th pick in 2012 and Butler went 30th in 2011—they have very similar stories.

“Last time we broke bread and talked over dinner, he wanted to work out with me and vice versa because I know he’s going to push me to a limit, and we just want to make each other better,” Crowder said. “We want to start working out together in the summer time. We talk a lot and we go out to dinner when we play one another. That’s one of my best friends in the NBA. That’s my brother.”

“It’s a blue-collar mentality,” Crowder said of Marquette. “Me and Jimmy, we played in the Big East when it was really tough. It helped mold us and grew us to become everyday-type players. That’s the way our coach coached us when we were at Marquette. You don’t play unless you play hard and unless you play with a certain type of swag.”

“I think you always have a bond when you go to the same school and go to war with a guy like Jae under Buzz [Williams],” Butler told the NBPA. “He went to Juco just like I went to the Juco, so that just shows even more how much we have in common—overlooked in the draft, made our mark in this league and we’re here to stay. More than a basketball player, he’s an incredible human being, a great father and somebody that these kids can look up to because he’s the definition of what hard work and dedication can get you in this life.”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/17/bulls-jimmy-butler-praises-former-college-teammate-jae-crowder/E0Lo5RirK1H2oJR8iAYBsO/story.html

conclusion: they are really close

[max215]

One thing to consider if deciding between AB and Crowder: Jae and Jimmy are not exactly best buds.

I was under the impression that they had a very good relationship

Same here, and I think they are. They had a spat earlier in the year in one of our games against them, but that was nothing big.

IIRC reports at the time were that they're not pals. I'll try to find an article.

Found it:

Just told by someone in the know that Jimmy Butler and Jae Crowder -- ex-Marquette teammates -- not exactly boys.

https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/791812523360194560

Tweet is from during the game in which the altercation occurred.

But if u scroll down thru the replies from that tweet...there is a pic of the 2 hanging out getting din din after a game......hmmmm

I really dunno much bout their relationship but interesting

So I guess we don't really know, but I did remember some mention of them not being particularly close.

Jeff Goodman isn't very reliable, and he has a pretty strong anti-Celtics bias that is well-known.

I remember Crowder talking after the incident about it, and he was talking about how he was surprised, too, since they are good friends.

EDIT: Here you go.  It was Butler saying Jae was his "guy" lol http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2016/10/boston_celtics_jae_crowder_on_1.html

They were teammates at Marquette, so I imagine they have a fairly good relationship.

They seem to be very good friends
https://www.instagram.com/p/BARJ6m1B7nC/?taken-by=jimmybutler&hl=en
https://www.instagram.com/p/BASrL0WMFP2/?taken-by=bossmann99&hl=en
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJ6fT_AAZ16/?taken-by=jimmybutler&hl=en
In the last one he is working out with Brown but uses the caption #imcomingforyoualsojaecrowder. Certainly doesnt seem like in a malicious way.
http://nbpa.com/life-on-mars-how-jae-crowder-has-carved-his-own-lane-with-the-celtics/

Beyond his family, Crowder has found motivation through one of his closest friends, Bulls star Jimmy Butler, who was his teammate at Marquette during the 2010-11 season. Between both players attending junior college and being overlooked in the NBA draft—Crowder was the 34th pick in 2012 and Butler went 30th in 2011—they have very similar stories.

“Last time we broke bread and talked over dinner, he wanted to work out with me and vice versa because I know he’s going to push me to a limit, and we just want to make each other better,” Crowder said. “We want to start working out together in the summer time. We talk a lot and we go out to dinner when we play one another. That’s one of my best friends in the NBA. That’s my brother.”

“It’s a blue-collar mentality,” Crowder said of Marquette. “Me and Jimmy, we played in the Big East when it was really tough. It helped mold us and grew us to become everyday-type players. That’s the way our coach coached us when we were at Marquette. You don’t play unless you play hard and unless you play with a certain type of swag.”

“I think you always have a bond when you go to the same school and go to war with a guy like Jae under Buzz [Williams],” Butler told the NBPA. “He went to Juco just like I went to the Juco, so that just shows even more how much we have in common—overlooked in the draft, made our mark in this league and we’re here to stay. More than a basketball player, he’s an incredible human being, a great father and somebody that these kids can look up to because he’s the definition of what hard work and dedication can get you in this life.”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/17/bulls-jimmy-butler-praises-former-college-teammate-jae-crowder/E0Lo5RirK1H2oJR8iAYBsO/story.html

conclusion: they are really close

Yeah, seems like Goodman was probably wrong (or worse).

[RJ87]

Yes, please.

[jpotter33]

One thing to consider if deciding between AB and Crowder: Jae and Jimmy are not exactly best buds.

I was under the impression that they had a very good relationship

Same here, and I think they are. They had a spat earlier in the year in one of our games against them, but that was nothing big.

IIRC reports at the time were that they're not pals. I'll try to find an article.

Found it:

Just told by someone in the know that Jimmy Butler and Jae Crowder -- ex-Marquette teammates -- not exactly boys.

https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/791812523360194560

Tweet is from during the game in which the altercation occurred.

But if u scroll down thru the replies from that tweet...there is a pic of the 2 hanging out getting din din after a game......hmmmm

I really dunno much bout their relationship but interesting

So I guess we don't really know, but I did remember some mention of them not being particularly close.

Jeff Goodman isn't very reliable, and he has a pretty strong anti-Celtics bias that is well-known.

I remember Crowder talking after the incident about it, and he was talking about how he was surprised, too, since they are good friends.

EDIT: Here you go.  It was Butler saying Jae was his "guy" lol http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2016/10/boston_celtics_jae_crowder_on_1.html

They were teammates at Marquette, so I imagine they have a fairly good relationship.

They seem to be very good friends
https://www.instagram.com/p/BARJ6m1B7nC/?taken-by=jimmybutler&hl=en
https://www.instagram.com/p/BASrL0WMFP2/?taken-by=bossmann99&hl=en
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJ6fT_AAZ16/?taken-by=jimmybutler&hl=en
In the last one he is working out with Brown but uses the caption #imcomingforyoualsojaecrowder. Certainly doesnt seem like in a malicious way.
http://nbpa.com/life-on-mars-how-jae-crowder-has-carved-his-own-lane-with-the-celtics/

Beyond his family, Crowder has found motivation through one of his closest friends, Bulls star Jimmy Butler, who was his teammate at Marquette during the 2010-11 season. Between both players attending junior college and being overlooked in the NBA draft—Crowder was the 34th pick in 2012 and Butler went 30th in 2011—they have very similar stories.

“Last time we broke bread and talked over dinner, he wanted to work out with me and vice versa because I know he’s going to push me to a limit, and we just want to make each other better,” Crowder said. “We want to start working out together in the summer time. We talk a lot and we go out to dinner when we play one another. That’s one of my best friends in the NBA. That’s my brother.”

“It’s a blue-collar mentality,” Crowder said of Marquette. “Me and Jimmy, we played in the Big East when it was really tough. It helped mold us and grew us to become everyday-type players. That’s the way our coach coached us when we were at Marquette. You don’t play unless you play hard and unless you play with a certain type of swag.”

“I think you always have a bond when you go to the same school and go to war with a guy like Jae under Buzz [Williams],” Butler told the NBPA. “He went to Juco just like I went to the Juco, so that just shows even more how much we have in common—overlooked in the draft, made our mark in this league and we’re here to stay. More than a basketball player, he’s an incredible human being, a great father and somebody that these kids can look up to because he’s the definition of what hard work and dedication can get you in this life.”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/17/bulls-jimmy-butler-praises-former-college-teammate-jae-crowder/E0Lo5RirK1H2oJR8iAYBsO/story.html

conclusion: they are really close

Yeah, seems like Goodman was probably wrong (or worse).

Yeah, Goodman is a... less than likable person, let's say. He's had a lot of pretty anti-Celtics biased stuff, even though he covers us a lot.

[Geo123]

Off Limits:

IT, Horford, Jae, Smart, Brown, Bradley, and ONE of 2017/2018 Nets picks.

If they can make it work around that, well, welcome to the team Jimmy.

Maybe KO, Rozier, Jerebko, 2017 Nets 1st, 2019 Griz 1st, 1-10 Protected Bos 2018 1st, 2017 Minn 2nd. That's 3 1st round picks (with this year's likely being top 4 in a talented draft), some young talent in Rozier, A serviceable vet in Jerebko, and an expiring in KO--Along with a decent 2nd round pick this year. Chicago still says no, but this is a trade that I could get behind.

Y'all mo fos need to chill and leave my boys Smart and Brown out of this trade.

We'd be even thinner up front this year, but we could make due--Especially if we play a ton of small ball. The Team would look something like:

Starters------Bench
IT------------Smart
Butler--------Bradley
Crowder------Brown, Green
Amir----------Brown, Mickey
Horford-------Zeller

I figure PG, SG, and SF will be split between IT, Smart, Butler, Bradley, Crowder,  Brown, and Green.
PF and C would be split between Horford, Zeller, Amir, Brown, Mickey, and sometimes Crowder or Smart. We could make it work. We keep our leading rebounder on our team with this trade.

You have no chance to get Butler without at least one if not 2  of Smart, Bradley, Brown and Crowder plus one of the Nets picks.  I think you can get them to include Gibson though.