Bucher: Bulls shopping Butler

[tankcity!]

Butler's not going anywhere.  He's got a guaranteed 5 year deal that's going to wind up being below market rate once the new collective bargaining agreement goes into effect. 

You change the coach, GM and then every other player on the roster before you move him.

Disagree. They know he's not a superstar and they can get much more for him now then they could later on. Look at the Kings for example or the Hawks. They're players contracts are expiring and they are losing trade value by the day. Have you seen the market for Milsap? Not great. The Pelicans are offering a lottery protected first round pick haha.

Put yourself in the shoes of one of the Bull's top customers - you have season tickets in the good seats and you're dropping a few hundred dollars each game to see your Bulls.  They deal their best player - who's in his prime and just signed a 5 year deal for a bunch of what ifs - how are you feeling about your entertainment investment?

This is why superstars - especially ones on good contracts - rarely ever move in the league.  It's hard enough to get these guys - your fan base will crucify you if you deal one for lesser talent.

Fact of life in the NBA which 95% of the fans don't get.

Okay, so the Bulls won't deal him then. It's that simple. This is why Cousins, and other players don't get moved often.

[PAOBoston]

Some of you guys are absolutely delirious if you think you can get Butler without giving up some important pieces. Terry Rozier and the 18 BRK pick is not gonna cut it. And, if Jaylen Brown, spare parts, and the 2 BRK picks are what it cost for Butler, we should dive Brown to the airport ASAP to make that deal.

Butler is a borderline top 10 player this year. You need to give up something good to get him. He scored 25 ppg, plays elite defense, and is signed for 3.5 years on a relatively cheap contract in regards to the new CBA/salary cap.

We're better off building through the draft. The market dictates Butler's value. Not you nor the Bulls. Let's see what they can get in return. They still haven't traded him because clearly no one is biting on their high price.

Having a high price is one thing. But lowball offers like the ones beng thown around here is different. It's going to cost a lot to get any superstar via trade.

Building for the draft is going to take another 5-10 years if you get lucky.

So you're just going to ignore the what the Bulls wanted from the Celtics in last years draft? It was widely reported by numerous sources they wanted on Brooklyn pick, Crowder, and a low to mid first round pick?

Where are you getting your assumption from exactly?

1. We do not know with certainty if that was the case. If it was as simple as that, Ainge would have made the move. My take was he was ready but it was the Bulls who backed away because they wanted to keep him and get more for him  by giving him a new deal.
2. Butler is now signed long term on a very affordable contract
3. Heb's putting up even better numbers than last year

Butler's value is not the same as it was last draft. He's worth more now.

Yeah, I'll take people who cover the league's word for it instead of yours. I don't think you have any idea what Ainge would do. I myself wouldn't either since I don't work there and it isn't my job.

I don't get what your argument is.

You keep bringing up Crowder/Brk pick/1st rounder. I said that Butler's value has increased since then so now he's worth more. It's going to take more than that now.

[Neurotic Guy]

I think one thing to keep in mind related to Danny's last rebuild -- KG and Ray Allen were both in their early 30's and enough past their prime to be traded at a discount (fortunately they both proved to have plenty in the tank).  If Danny was trading for the 26/27 year old RA and KG, he wouldn't  have had the assets to acquire both of them. 

If the C's are going for a young max salary star (Butler DMC, PG...), my opinion is that he better be a superstar (top 10) quality guy because  acquiring him will drain our assets.   Butler is good but not good enough IMO, so I wouldn't trade for him.

[tankcity!]

Some of you guys are absolutely delirious if you think you can get Butler without giving up some important pieces. Terry Rozier and the 18 BRK pick is not gonna cut it. And, if Jaylen Brown, spare parts, and the 2 BRK picks are what it cost for Butler, we should dive Brown to the airport ASAP to make that deal.

Butler is a borderline top 10 player this year. You need to give up something good to get him. He scored 25 ppg, plays elite defense, and is signed for 3.5 years on a relatively cheap contract in regards to the new CBA/salary cap.

We're better off building through the draft. The market dictates Butler's value. Not you nor the Bulls. Let's see what they can get in return. They still haven't traded him because clearly no one is biting on their high price.

Having a high price is one thing. But lowball offers like the ones beng thown around here is different. It's going to cost a lot to get any superstar via trade.

Building for the draft is going to take another 5-10 years if you get lucky.

So you're just going to ignore the what the Bulls wanted from the Celtics in last years draft? It was widely reported by numerous sources they wanted on Brooklyn pick, Crowder, and a low to mid first round pick?

Where are you getting your assumption from exactly?

1. We do not know with certainty if that was the case. If it was as simple as that, Ainge would have made the move. My take was he was ready but it was the Bulls who backed away because they wanted to keep him and get more for him  by giving him a new deal.
2. Butler is now signed long term on a very affordable contract
3. Heb's putting up even better numbers than last year

Butler's value is not the same as it was last draft. He's worth more now.

Yeah, I'll take people who cover the league's word for it instead of yours. I don't think you have any idea what Ainge would do. I myself wouldn't either since I don't work there and it isn't my job.

I don't get what your argument is.

You keep bringing up Crowder/Brk pick/1st rounder. I said that Butler's value has increased since then so now he's worth more. It's going to take more than that now.

Well then I just disagree. I can't assume his price has gone up because it hasn't been reported. How can a price go up when people aren't able to meet your old price?

We can agree to disagree.

[oldtype]

The only reason I'd want to trade for Butler now would be if it leaves room open for a second trade.  There's zero point to giving them both Brooklyn picks.

[Ilikesports17]

Some of you guys are absolutely delirious if you think you can get Butler without giving up some important pieces. Terry Rozier and the 18 BRK pick is not gonna cut it. And, if Jaylen Brown, spare parts, and the 2 BRK picks are what it cost for Butler, we should dive Brown to the airport ASAP to make that deal.

Butler is a borderline top 10 player this year. You need to give up something good to get him. He scored 25 ppg, plays elite defense, and is signed for 3.5 years on a relatively cheap contract in regards to the new CBA/salary cap.

We're better off building through the draft. The market dictates Butler's value. Not you nor the Bulls. Let's see what they can get in return. They still haven't traded him because clearly no one is biting on their high price.

Having a high price is one thing. But lowball offers like the ones beng thown around here is different. It's going to cost a lot to get any superstar via trade.

Building for the draft is going to take another 5-10 years if you get lucky.

So you're just going to ignore the what the Bulls wanted from the Celtics in last years draft? It was widely reported by numerous sources they wanted on Brooklyn pick, Crowder, and a low to mid first round pick?

Where are you getting your assumption from exactly?

1. We do not know with certainty if that was the case. If it was as simple as that, Ainge would have made the move. My take was he was ready but it was the Bulls who backed away because they wanted to keep him and get more for him  by giving him a new deal.
2. Butler is now signed long term on a very affordable contract
3. Heb's putting up even better numbers than last year

Butler's value is not the same as it was last draft. He's worth more now.

Yeah, I'll take people who cover the league's word for it instead of yours. I don't think you have any idea what Ainge would do. I myself wouldn't either since I don't work there and it isn't my job.

I don't get what your argument is.

You keep bringing up Crowder/Brk pick/1st rounder. I said that Butler's value has increased since then so now he's worth more. It's going to take more than that now.

Well then I just disagree. I can't assume his price has gone up because it hasn't been reported. How can a price go up when people aren't able to meet your old price?

We can agree to disagree.

When you dont need to sell.

Jimmy is under contract long term and the Bulls seem content to keep him. They made a valuation of Jimmy Butler during the summer. No one wanted to pay it. He has since improved his play and they have made a new valuation. If no one is willing to pay it they will keep Jimmy Butler.

[footey]

I think one thing to keep in mind related to Danny's last rebuild -- KG and Ray Allen were both in their early 30's and enough past their prime to be traded at a discount (fortunately they both proved to have plenty in the tank).  If Danny was trading for the 26/27 year old RA and KG, he wouldn't  have had the assets to acquire both of them. 

If the C's are going for a young max salary star (Butler DMC, PG...), my opinion is that he better be a superstar (top 10) quality guy because  acquiring him will drain our assets.   Butler is good but not good enough IMO, so I wouldn't trade for him.

Completely agree with NG.  Plus bear in mind trading for older all stars made more sense when we also had a 3rd all star who was in his early 30's in Pierce. That is not the case today.

[tankcity!]

Some of you guys are absolutely delirious if you think you can get Butler without giving up some important pieces. Terry Rozier and the 18 BRK pick is not gonna cut it. And, if Jaylen Brown, spare parts, and the 2 BRK picks are what it cost for Butler, we should dive Brown to the airport ASAP to make that deal.

Butler is a borderline top 10 player this year. You need to give up something good to get him. He scored 25 ppg, plays elite defense, and is signed for 3.5 years on a relatively cheap contract in regards to the new CBA/salary cap.

We're better off building through the draft. The market dictates Butler's value. Not you nor the Bulls. Let's see what they can get in return. They still haven't traded him because clearly no one is biting on their high price.

Having a high price is one thing. But lowball offers like the ones beng thown around here is different. It's going to cost a lot to get any superstar via trade.

Building for the draft is going to take another 5-10 years if you get lucky.

So you're just going to ignore the what the Bulls wanted from the Celtics in last years draft? It was widely reported by numerous sources they wanted on Brooklyn pick, Crowder, and a low to mid first round pick?

Where are you getting your assumption from exactly?

1. We do not know with certainty if that was the case. If it was as simple as that, Ainge would have made the move. My take was he was ready but it was the Bulls who backed away because they wanted to keep him and get more for him  by giving him a new deal.
2. Butler is now signed long term on a very affordable contract
3. Heb's putting up even better numbers than last year

Butler's value is not the same as it was last draft. He's worth more now.

Yeah, I'll take people who cover the league's word for it instead of yours. I don't think you have any idea what Ainge would do. I myself wouldn't either since I don't work there and it isn't my job.

I don't get what your argument is.

You keep bringing up Crowder/Brk pick/1st rounder. I said that Butler's value has increased since then so now he's worth more. It's going to take more than that now.

Well then I just disagree. I can't assume his price has gone up because it hasn't been reported. How can a price go up when people aren't able to meet your old price?

We can agree to disagree.

When you dont need to sell.

Jimmy is under contract long term and the Bulls seem content to keep him. They made a valuation of Jimmy Butler during the summer. No one wanted to pay it. He has since improved his play and they have made a new valuation. If no one is willing to pay it they will keep Jimmy Butler.

Yeah I agree with this. I don't think Butler will be traded because the market dictates his value. The seller is clearly pricing too high since no one has been able to meet their price.

They can keep Butler, but just keep in mind that each year Butler's price will go down because we are getting closer to the end of his contract. Please refer to both Milsap, Horford, DHoward, etc. So the Bulls can keep him and not retain lottery picks for the next year.

My whole point is, the right decision for the Bulls is to get at least one lottery pick and a starter for Butler. That way they have two lottery picks in this deep draft and it is quicker rebuild. Future draft class's will not be as strong.

[Granath]

Well then I just disagree. I can't assume his price has gone up because it hasn't been reported. How can a price go up when people aren't able to meet your old price?

We can agree to disagree.

TP.

Butler is basically averaging what he did last year pre-injury. If his stock has risen it's not much of a rise. Whatever the price was during the draft, it was valued as being too high if all the rumors about Danny being interested was true.

So if the sale price last year was too high and Butler hasn't increased his value in a significant manner (and I don't think it has) then I don't see why the price is actually higher now than it would have been over the summer. I don't think it is. I think people are desperate and they'll proffer up anything to get a deal done.

As an aside, ain't it nice? #3 in the East, Brown looking like a valuable long-term asset, both of the draft-and-stash guys showing something overseas and knowing you can swap picks with the team with the worst record in the league? 

[Nails]

I want to see the Celts land Butler and Melo this year. We would be legit. I know no one likes Melo. He is one of my favorite players and he would waive his no trade to play in Boston. For the next three years we would be able to battle CLE.

[mainevent]

I want to see the Celts land Butler and Melo this year. We would be legit. I know no one likes Melo. He is one of my favorite players and he would waive his no trade to play in Boston. For the next three years we would be able to battle CLE.

Which one of them would help us where we need help the most...on the boards? Oh by the way, Melo hasn't played defense since...., since....., since.............Watching Kelly attempting to play D is more than enough for me! Until we can get someone to rebound the ball effectively, we'll never be a threat. Thompson is not much on Cleveland, but he gets boards by the boatload.  I wouldn't care if the guy never scored a point just GET THE BALL WHEN IT COMES OFF THE RIM! Until that happens we'll be middle of the road, period.  PG, Butler, Melo...all good scorers.  Boogie = Beast! THAT is what we need, a beast on the boards and if he could score too...we take the next step.

[kozlodoev]

I want to see the Celts land Butler and Melo this year. We would be legit. I know no one likes Melo. He is one of my favorite players and he would waive his no trade to play in Boston. For the next three years we would be able to battle CLE.

There isn't much there to like -- a career loser and coach-killer who is well past his prime. Stay away.

[Ilikesports17]

Some of you guys are absolutely delirious if you think you can get Butler without giving up some important pieces. Terry Rozier and the 18 BRK pick is not gonna cut it. And, if Jaylen Brown, spare parts, and the 2 BRK picks are what it cost for Butler, we should dive Brown to the airport ASAP to make that deal.

Butler is a borderline top 10 player this year. You need to give up something good to get him. He scored 25 ppg, plays elite defense, and is signed for 3.5 years on a relatively cheap contract in regards to the new CBA/salary cap.

We're better off building through the draft. The market dictates Butler's value. Not you nor the Bulls. Let's see what they can get in return. They still haven't traded him because clearly no one is biting on their high price.

Having a high price is one thing. But lowball offers like the ones beng thown around here is different. It's going to cost a lot to get any superstar via trade.

Building for the draft is going to take another 5-10 years if you get lucky.

So you're just going to ignore the what the Bulls wanted from the Celtics in last years draft? It was widely reported by numerous sources they wanted on Brooklyn pick, Crowder, and a low to mid first round pick?

Where are you getting your assumption from exactly?

1. We do not know with certainty if that was the case. If it was as simple as that, Ainge would have made the move. My take was he was ready but it was the Bulls who backed away because they wanted to keep him and get more for him  by giving him a new deal.
2. Butler is now signed long term on a very affordable contract
3. Heb's putting up even better numbers than last year

Butler's value is not the same as it was last draft. He's worth more now.

Yeah, I'll take people who cover the league's word for it instead of yours. I don't think you have any idea what Ainge would do. I myself wouldn't either since I don't work there and it isn't my job.

I don't get what your argument is.

You keep bringing up Crowder/Brk pick/1st rounder. I said that Butler's value has increased since then so now he's worth more. It's going to take more than that now.

Well then I just disagree. I can't assume his price has gone up because it hasn't been reported. How can a price go up when people aren't able to meet your old price?

We can agree to disagree.

When you dont need to sell.

Jimmy is under contract long term and the Bulls seem content to keep him. They made a valuation of Jimmy Butler during the summer. No one wanted to pay it. He has since improved his play and they have made a new valuation. If no one is willing to pay it they will keep Jimmy Butler.

Yeah I agree with this. I don't think Butler will be traded because the market dictates his value. The seller is clearly pricing too high since no one has been able to meet their price.

They can keep Butler, but just keep in mind that each year Butler's price will go down because we are getting closer to the end of his contract. Please refer to both Milsap, Horford, DHoward, etc. So the Bulls can keep him and not retain lottery picks for the next year.

My whole point is, the right decision for the Bulls is to get at least one lottery pick and a starter for Butler. That way they have two lottery picks in this deep draft and it is quicker rebuild. Future draft class's will not be as strong.

yeah its tough to see what the right decision for the bulls is.

This summer it seemed obvious to me that they should either keep Butler and put young talent around him and build around him or trade butler for a big haul and completely start over. Instead they paid for big names that dont fit together and doom the team to mediocrity.

Now they can move Butler and still get that nice package, but i think they are content to just let Jimmy Butler make up for their bad decisions and keep a competitive team on the floor untill their hand is absolutely forced.

[Nails]

Melo is still in his prime. Can rebound and score with the best of them. Defense is played on occasion as in rarely. But they can get him to play D. He would be the single most dynamic scorer since P2 was good. Not his has last 2 years or so but pre 2011. Think of how Melo would open the whole floor up for IT to drive and the other guys to hit wide open jumpers. I would make it happen. You are paying 80 cents on the dollar and have him in his prime for the next 3 years.

[kozlodoev]

Melo is still in his prime. Can rebound and score with the best of them. Defense is played on occasion as in rarely. But they can get him to play D. He would be the single most dynamic scorer since P2 was good. Not his has last 2 years or so but pre 2011. Think of how Melo would open the whole floor up for IT to drive and the other guys to hit wide open jumpers. I would make it happen. You are paying 80 cents on the dollar and have him in his prime for the next 3 years.

http://www.si.com/nba/2016/12/22/george-karl-book-carmelo-anthony

That is all.