Bucher: Bulls shopping Butler

[SHAQATTACK]

And considering where that 1st rounder is going to be, too much.

It's a lot, to be sure, but not a single one of those pieces is guaranteed to be anywhere near as valuable as Butler.


Butler is:

- A borderline top 10 player
- 27 years old
- Making a little more than half what his market value would be if he were a FA this summer
- Under contract for 3 more seasons after this one

If the Bulls trade him, they will expect to get a ton.  You're getting a superstar two-way wing for 3.5 years of his prime.

I like Butler a good deal, but he is not a borderline top 10 player.  He's arguably not even top 5 at his position.  LeBron, KD, Kawhi, and Paul George are all undisputably ahead of him, and certainly people could make good cases for Giannis and Carmelo as well.  I wouldn't object to anyone who wanted to through Hayward in the mix, either.  And then there are all sorts of bigs and guards ahead of him too.

Also, he will certainly opt out of his contract for the final year, so you're only getting him for 2.5 years.

Finally, once his trade bonus is accounted for, his cap hit next year will be about $20 million, or 2/3 of the ~$30 million he'd get on the open market.  Still a discount, but significantly more than half.

He's a really good player, and it would be a great acquisition.  But he's not a history-altering player, which is the package you seem to have gotten behind.  It would not surprise me at all if in three years that draft pick were better than Jimmy Butler.  Throwing piles of players and picks on top of it is unnecessary. It is a really, really good draft at the top.  The Bulls will get a player that will make their fans forget about Jimmy Butler in a hurry.  If they do it quickly enough such that they fall down the standings, they could get two.

I'd like to see how you came to the conclusion that PG is better than Butler. And suggesting that Melo is even remotely comparable is comical. Butler's been fantastic this year; he's borderline top 10.

i have to agree with this. Carmelo at 32 is worst at everything than Butler right now. On defense carmelo is not even the same league. How can you really think they are similar?

Carmelo isn't even in Butler's league on OFFENSE, and that's where Melo "excells."

Melo is top five .......


Over rated and over paid player

[Ilikesports17]

One thing to consider if deciding between AB and Crowder: Jae and Jimmy are not exactly best buds.

I was under the impression that they had a very good relationship

[jpotter33]

And considering where that 1st rounder is going to be, too much.

It's a lot, to be sure, but not a single one of those pieces is guaranteed to be anywhere near as valuable as Butler.


Butler is:

- A borderline top 10 player
- 27 years old
- Making a little more than half what his market value would be if he were a FA this summer
- Under contract for 3 more seasons after this one

If the Bulls trade him, they will expect to get a ton.  You're getting a superstar two-way wing for 3.5 years of his prime.

I like Butler a good deal, but he is not a borderline top 10 player.  He's arguably not even top 5 at his position.  LeBron, KD, Kawhi, and Paul George are all undisputably ahead of him, and certainly people could make good cases for Giannis and Carmelo as well.  I wouldn't object to anyone who wanted to through Hayward in the mix, either.  And then there are all sorts of bigs and guards ahead of him too.

Also, he will certainly opt out of his contract for the final year, so you're only getting him for 2.5 years.

Finally, once his trade bonus is accounted for, his cap hit next year will be about $20 million, or 2/3 of the ~$30 million he'd get on the open market.  Still a discount, but significantly more than half.

He's a really good player, and it would be a great acquisition.  But he's not a history-altering player, which is the package you seem to have gotten behind.  It would not surprise me at all if in three years that draft pick were better than Jimmy Butler.  Throwing piles of players and picks on top of it is unnecessary. It is a really, really good draft at the top.  The Bulls will get a player that will make their fans forget about Jimmy Butler in a hurry.  If they do it quickly enough such that they fall down the standings, they could get two.

I'd like to see how you came to the conclusion that PG is better than Butler. And suggesting that Melo is even remotely comparable is comical. Butler's been fantastic this year; he's borderline top 10.

i have to agree with this. Carmelo at 32 is worst at everything than Butler right now. On defense carmelo is not even the same league. How can you really think they are similar?

Ignore Melo.  Not worth arguing about.  I'd personally fight for Giannis most, myself.

The point remains, it's questionable whether Butler is even a top 5 SF, and we haven't even talked about PF, Centers, SG, and PG yet.  Are you putting him above Westbrook?  Harden?  Curry?  Klay? Davis?  Kyrie? Cousins? Lowry? DeRozan? Draymond? Towns? Aldridge? Paul?  Lillard? Wall? Walker?  I'm not even including IT on this list, because there are enough threads on this forum debating his worth.

If you want to say Jimmy Butler is a top 20 player, I'm not going to fight it.  But borderline top 10 is nonsense.  There are obviously 10 players better than him in the NBA.  Top 10 gets you MVP votes.  He's never gotten those, and is not getting those this year, nor should he.  He's a very good player.  He'd probably be the best player on this team.  He would be a great addition.  But there's no reason to overrate him.  There are a lot of really good players in the NBA, and Jimmy Butler is one of them, but "borderline top 10" he is not.

I'd say the majority of the guys you named are worse than Butler.

Bron
Harden
KD
Russ
Curry
Leonard
Davis
Cousins
Lowry
Giannis

That's 10. After that, Butler enters the discussion for me along with guys like Dray, Marc Gasol, Klay, Isaiah, etc. He probably comes in at 11 or 12, which is borderline top-10.

Honestly, Draymomd Green is sooooooo overrated. He is nowhere near a top 15 player, imo. I honestly think he's just a bigger version of Smart who benefits tremendously by playing off of Curry, Klay, and Durant and only having to worrry about playing good D, rebounding, and hitting the occasional open shot.

[jpotter33]

One thing to consider if deciding between AB and Crowder: Jae and Jimmy are not exactly best buds.

I was under the impression that they had a very good relationship

Same here, and I think they are. They had a spat earlier in the year in one of our games against them, but that was nothing big.

[JaylenBrown7]

so their not friends because of a tussle on the court even when they hang out in the off season and always were good friends from college?

[chambers]

He's averaging 25 points, 6.8 rebounds and 4.5 assists
45% FG and 33.5% 3 pt shooting.

That's pretty close to superstar territory considering he plays both ends.

[tazzmaniac]

Hey Chicago!

Pick one of each:

- Smart OR Rozier
- Bradley OR Crowder
- 2017 OR 2018 BRK pick
- Zeller OR Jerebko (as filler)

We'll throw in BOTH of the 2019 1st round picks owed to the Celtics from the Grizzlies and the Clippers!

Let's make a deal!

Too much.

Is it?

Smart / Rozier ... that's a young role player.

Bradley / Crowder ... one of these would be supplanted in the starting lineup by Butler anyway.

2017 / 2018 BRK pick ... you've got to give up one of these to get a talent like Butler.

2019 MEM / LAC picks .... these might end up as lottery picks down the line, but it seems more likely they'll be in the middle of the 1st round.


Basically, you're giving up a young role player, a starting caliber wing on a bargain deal, a likely top 5 pick, and two future mid-1sts to get a superstar wing player in his prime with 3 years left on his deal after this one at a below-market price.

What's not to love?

I agree it is not too much.  People seem to ignore that there will be other teams very interested in Butler.  You don't get a top 20 player cheaply. 

BTW, the LAC pick is lottery protected until it turns into a 2nd rounder. 

[chambers]

there's discussion on the bulls forum on realgm about this.
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1506883&p=51117856#p51117856


I offered:
2017 Brooklyn pick (currently #1, probably top 3 at season's end)
2019 Memphis pick (could be gold considering Gasol's age/health history)
Terry Rozier
Kelly Olynyk
Amir Johnson


and was abused multiple times, lol.

The reasonable replies are saying they'd want at the very least:
17' BRK pick
Brown
18' nets.

if we are keeping Smart, Bradley, Crowder.

Which in a way is sort of fair. Would suck to lose Brown, but we are hoping he turns into Butler eventually right?

IT
Bradley
Butler
Horford
Bogut or Lopez

with
Crowder
Smart
Rozier
KO
Zeller
Green
Jerebko

is better than the Raptors.

[jpotter33]

there's discussion on the bulls forum on realgm about this.
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1506883&p=51117856#p51117856


I offered:
2017 Brooklyn pick (currently #1, probably top 3 at season's end)
2019 Memphis pick (could be gold considering Gasol's age/health history)
Terry Rozier
Kelly Olynyk
Amir Johnson


and was abused multiple times, lol.

The reasonable replies are saying they'd want at the very least:
17' BRK pick
Brown
18' nets.

if we are keeping Smart, Bradley, Crowder.

Which in a way is sort of fair. Would suck to lose Brown, but we are hoping he turns into Butler eventually right?

IT
Bradley
Butler
Horford
Bogut or Lopez

with
Crowder
Smart
Rozier
KO
Zeller
Green
Jerebko

is better than the Raptors.

Here's the thing though - after Crowder's spat the other night, will he accept going back to the bench?

I probably do that deal, too (Amir, Brown, 2 Brooklyn picks), and then snag Noel from Philly. Imagine that small ball lineup: IT, AB, Butler, Crowder, Horford/Noel!

[max215]

One thing to consider if deciding between AB and Crowder: Jae and Jimmy are not exactly best buds.

I was under the impression that they had a very good relationship

Same here, and I think they are. They had a spat earlier in the year in one of our games against them, but that was nothing big.

IIRC reports at the time were that they're not pals. I'll try to find an article.

[tankcity!]

there's discussion on the bulls forum on realgm about this.
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1506883&p=51117856#p51117856


I offered:
2017 Brooklyn pick (currently #1, probably top 3 at season's end)
2019 Memphis pick (could be gold considering Gasol's age/health history)
Terry Rozier
Kelly Olynyk
Amir Johnson


and was abused multiple times, lol.

The reasonable replies are saying they'd want at the very least:
17' BRK pick
Brown
18' nets.

if we are keeping Smart, Bradley, Crowder.

Which in a way is sort of fair. Would suck to lose Brown, but we are hoping he turns into Butler eventually right?

IT
Bradley
Butler
Horford
Bogut or Lopez

with
Crowder
Smart
Rozier
KO
Zeller
Green
Jerebko

is better than the Raptors.

That team doesn't win us a championship though? And we're trading our best assets away. How would we improve the team with limited assets and cap flexibility assuming Thomas gets max?

[max215]

One thing to consider if deciding between AB and Crowder: Jae and Jimmy are not exactly best buds.

I was under the impression that they had a very good relationship

Same here, and I think they are. They had a spat earlier in the year in one of our games against them, but that was nothing big.

IIRC reports at the time were that they're not pals. I'll try to find an article.

Found it:

Just told by someone in the know that Jimmy Butler and Jae Crowder -- ex-Marquette teammates -- not exactly boys.

https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/791812523360194560

Tweet is from during the game in which the altercation occurred.

[Humble G]

One thing to consider if deciding between AB and Crowder: Jae and Jimmy are not exactly best buds.

I was under the impression that they had a very good relationship

Same here, and I think they are. They had a spat earlier in the year in one of our games against them, but that was nothing big.

IIRC reports at the time were that they're not pals. I'll try to find an article.

Found it:

Just told by someone in the know that Jimmy Butler and Jae Crowder -- ex-Marquette teammates -- not exactly boys.

https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/791812523360194560

Tweet is from during the game in which the altercation occurred.

But if u scroll down thru the replies from that tweet...there is a pic of the 2 hanging out getting din din after a game......hmmmm

I really dunno much bout their relationship but interesting

[max215]

One thing to consider if deciding between AB and Crowder: Jae and Jimmy are not exactly best buds.

I was under the impression that they had a very good relationship

Same here, and I think they are. They had a spat earlier in the year in one of our games against them, but that was nothing big.

IIRC reports at the time were that they're not pals. I'll try to find an article.

Found it:

Just told by someone in the know that Jimmy Butler and Jae Crowder -- ex-Marquette teammates -- not exactly boys.

https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/791812523360194560

Tweet is from during the game in which the altercation occurred.

But if u scroll down thru the replies from that tweet...there is a pic of the 2 hanging out getting din din after a game......hmmmm

I really dunno much bout their relationship but interesting

So I guess we don't really know, but I did remember some mention of them not being particularly close.

[Phantom255x]

The Hawks have shipped Korver and are actively shopping Millsap.

Makes me think, with this brutal stretch ahead for Chicago.. the Bulls will be active sellers later this month or in February.

Unless the Bulls hang around the 7-8 seed... The Bulls might decide to hit "full rebuild" and deal Butler, etc.