Bucher: Bulls shopping Butler

[Donoghus]

I was much more pro-Butler this past off-season.  Sort've swung the other way now given the way the Celtics currently are playing, the increasing value of the BKN pick, and the expected cost to acquire him.   

Think he'd be a much better addition to this team than some of the other names floating around the boards (Hayward, for once).  But, I'm not sure the addition by subtraction here would make the Celtics that much better than currently constituted.

[tankcity!]

Is Bucher reliable? I remember him not having great sources.

[jambr380]

With all of this talk about a go-to all-star wing player and what it would likely take to acquire him, it really makes the decision between Hayward and Butler quite easy. If only we had a guarantee from Hayward...

I think Butler is a notch above Hayward. A really significant notch.

Maybe a notch, but I wouldn't say significant. And, while less expensive, you get to keep Brown, the '17 BKN pick, and Crowder with a Hayward signing.

Utah has been awesome this year, anyway, while the Bulls have been reeling. Getting more difficult to see a scenario where Hayward leaves a team on the rise like his Jazz team.

[Evantime34]

I'd love Butler here, but it all depends on the price. With the quality young player the Brooklyn pick should provide, and the quality of the C's now, the C's are set up so they feel like they have to make a Butler deal, which means they can sit out the negotiations if Chicago is asking for too much.

[Ed Hollison]

Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but keep in mind that Butler's making $19m per year for the next 4 years (after which he'll be 31). Considering the new CBA and the jump in elite players' salaries, that's potentially huge.

With all that said, I'm not sure I trade Jaylen Brown PLUS the 2017 Nets pick for him. But maybe I am being unrealistic.

[saltlover]

And considering where that 1st rounder is going to be, too much.

It's a lot, to be sure, but not a single one of those pieces is guaranteed to be anywhere near as valuable as Butler.


Butler is:

- A borderline top 10 player
- 27 years old
- Making a little more than half what his market value would be if he were a FA this summer
- Under contract for 3 more seasons after this one

If the Bulls trade him, they will expect to get a ton.  You're getting a superstar two-way wing for 3.5 years of his prime.

I like Butler a good deal, but he is not a borderline top 10 player.  He's arguably not even top 5 at his position.  LeBron, KD, Kawhi, and Paul George are all undisputably ahead of him, and certainly people could make good cases for Giannis and Carmelo as well.  I wouldn't object to anyone who wanted to through Hayward in the mix, either.  And then there are all sorts of bigs and guards ahead of him too.

Also, he will certainly opt out of his contract for the final year, so you're only getting him for 2.5 years.

Finally, once his trade bonus is accounted for, his cap hit next year will be about $20 million, or 2/3 of the ~$30 million he'd get on the open market.  Still a discount, but significantly more than half.

He's a really good player, and it would be a great acquisition.  But he's not a history-altering player, which is the package you seem to have gotten behind.  It would not surprise me at all if in three years that draft pick were better than Jimmy Butler.  Throwing piles of players and picks on top of it is unnecessary. It is a really, really good draft at the top.  The Bulls will get a player that will make their fans forget about Jimmy Butler in a hurry.  If they do it quickly enough such that they fall down the standings, they could get two.

[saltlover]

Is Bucher reliable? I remember him not having great sources.

How dare you question the basis of this thread?!?

[Moranis]

And considering where that 1st rounder is going to be, too much.

It's a lot, to be sure, but not a single one of those pieces is guaranteed to be anywhere near as valuable as Butler.


Butler is:

- A borderline top 10 player
- 27 years old
- Making a little more than half what his market value would be if he were a FA this summer
- Under contract for 3 more seasons after this one

If the Bulls trade him, they will expect to get a ton.  You're getting a superstar two-way wing for 3.5 years of his prime.

I like Butler a good deal, but he is not a borderline top 10 player.  He's arguably not even top 5 at his position.  LeBron, KD, Kawhi, and Paul George are all undisputably ahead of him, and certainly people could make good cases for Giannis and Carmelo as well.  I wouldn't object to anyone who wanted to through Hayward in the mix, either.  And then there are all sorts of bigs and guards ahead of him too.

Also, he will certainly opt out of his contract for the final year, so you're only getting him for 2.5 years.

Finally, once his trade bonus is accounted for, his cap hit next year will be about $20 million, or 2/3 of the ~$30 million he'd get on the open market.  Still a discount, but significantly more than half.

He's a really good player, and it would be a great acquisition.  But he's not a history-altering player, which is the package you seem to have gotten behind.  It would not surprise me at all if in three years that draft pick were better than Jimmy Butler.  Throwing piles of players and picks on top of it is unnecessary. It is a really, really good draft at the top.  The Bulls will get a player that will make their fans forget about Jimmy Butler in a hurry.  If they do it quickly enough such that they fall down the standings, they could get two.

that is why Boston also need to come away with Lopez and/or Gibson in the trade.  I think you could reasonably put together a package where Lopez, Gibson, and Butler all come to Boston, which would clearly put Boston in the Cleveland realm. 

Starters - Thomas, Bradley, Butler, Horford, Lopez
Main Playoff Rotation - Smart, Gibson, Olynyk
Rest of Playoff Bench - Green, Jerekbo, Young, Jackson/Mickey

That is a team that can realistically compete with the Cavs and Warriors.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Lopez is a pretty substantial upgrade over Amir. I'd like to get Lopez as a part of a deal, and if Butler is going to play SF (as he does in Chicago), then I'm prepared to cough up Crowder, Brown/Smart, Amir, and some sort of pick. And Young if needed to make salaries match.

Every stat, other than RPG indicates otherwise. Advanced stats favor Johnson's defense.

[max215]

And considering where that 1st rounder is going to be, too much.

It's a lot, to be sure, but not a single one of those pieces is guaranteed to be anywhere near as valuable as Butler.


Butler is:

- A borderline top 10 player
- 27 years old
- Making a little more than half what his market value would be if he were a FA this summer
- Under contract for 3 more seasons after this one

If the Bulls trade him, they will expect to get a ton.  You're getting a superstar two-way wing for 3.5 years of his prime.

I like Butler a good deal, but he is not a borderline top 10 player.  He's arguably not even top 5 at his position.  LeBron, KD, Kawhi, and Paul George are all undisputably ahead of him, and certainly people could make good cases for Giannis and Carmelo as well.  I wouldn't object to anyone who wanted to through Hayward in the mix, either.  And then there are all sorts of bigs and guards ahead of him too.

Also, he will certainly opt out of his contract for the final year, so you're only getting him for 2.5 years.

Finally, once his trade bonus is accounted for, his cap hit next year will be about $20 million, or 2/3 of the ~$30 million he'd get on the open market.  Still a discount, but significantly more than half.

He's a really good player, and it would be a great acquisition.  But he's not a history-altering player, which is the package you seem to have gotten behind.  It would not surprise me at all if in three years that draft pick were better than Jimmy Butler.  Throwing piles of players and picks on top of it is unnecessary. It is a really, really good draft at the top.  The Bulls will get a player that will make their fans forget about Jimmy Butler in a hurry.  If they do it quickly enough such that they fall down the standings, they could get two.

I'd like to see how you came to the conclusion that PG is better than Butler. And suggesting that Melo is even remotely comparable is comical. Butler's been fantastic this year; he's borderline top 10.

[SHAQATTACK]

I like the idea of Lopez /Butler .....for whatever DA can do.

Because.

It kills two birds with one stone. 

Lopez is an upgrade to Amir and Zeller

Butler is upgrade scorer to Crowder , Young , . KO


Like to keep Smart and Brown to go with Horford. 

I guess deal with Bulls ....assumes DA can't get a deal with Pacers or Kings

I wait out Kings and Pacers

[jpotter33]

And considering where that 1st rounder is going to be, too much.

It's a lot, to be sure, but not a single one of those pieces is guaranteed to be anywhere near as valuable as Butler.


Butler is:

- A borderline top 10 player
- 27 years old
- Making a little more than half what his market value would be if he were a FA this summer
- Under contract for 3 more seasons after this one

If the Bulls trade him, they will expect to get a ton.  You're getting a superstar two-way wing for 3.5 years of his prime.

I like Butler a good deal, but he is not a borderline top 10 player.  He's arguably not even top 5 at his position.  LeBron, KD, Kawhi, and Paul George are all undisputably ahead of him, and certainly people could make good cases for Giannis and Carmelo as well.  I wouldn't object to anyone who wanted to through Hayward in the mix, either.  And then there are all sorts of bigs and guards ahead of him too.

Also, he will certainly opt out of his contract for the final year, so you're only getting him for 2.5 years.

Finally, once his trade bonus is accounted for, his cap hit next year will be about $20 million, or 2/3 of the ~$30 million he'd get on the open market.  Still a discount, but significantly more than half.

He's a really good player, and it would be a great acquisition.  But he's not a history-altering player, which is the package you seem to have gotten behind.  It would not surprise me at all if in three years that draft pick were better than Jimmy Butler.  Throwing piles of players and picks on top of it is unnecessary. It is a really, really good draft at the top.  The Bulls will get a player that will make their fans forget about Jimmy Butler in a hurry.  If they do it quickly enough such that they fall down the standings, they could get two.

Paul George? I'm not sure about that. Butler has significantly better statistics than George with almost an identical usage rate.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Jimmy+Butler&player_id1_select=Jimmy+Butler&y1=2017&player_id1=butleji01&hint=Paul+George&player_id2_select=Paul+George&y2=2017&player_id2=georgpa01

The only thing I'd really put George clearly better than Butler at is three point shooting. And there have been a lot of complaints this year about George's defense and his over-reliance on the 3 and jumpshot in general.

George is probably a better fit for our team with his shooting, but Butler is pretty clearly the better overall player in my mind.

Also, Carmelo is nowhere near Butler or George right now, though a case can be made for Giannis being better.

[max215]

[dang], this might actually be real:

Just saw that report - let me say this. Bulls management is in hot water, so they have to do something. Butler is best chip they have.

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/817117051407962114

Kyler is usually quick to shut down most "rumors."

[PhoSita]

I like Butler a heck of a lot better than Melo, and I think he's probably better than George as well, TBH.  I'd rather have him than Derozan.

Yes - Bron, Durant, Kawhi, Giannis are all ahead of him at his position.

He's still a top player, and the prevalence of excellent players at the wing position only underscores how important it is to have an elite player there.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

What if they want to include Rondo?

Also, having signed Wade, do they want to go into a full rebuild? That wouldn't seem fair. Would they rather have a starter and get a third team involved to get another starter?

What about the Nuggets get the 2018 Brooklyn pick (with Johnson and Jerebko for salary matching).
The Bulls get Bradley, Gallinari, Clippers pick, and Memphis pick.
The Celtics get Mirotic and Butler.