C's , Cavs, Pelican 3 team deal in works?(Rumor) UPDATES on pg 1

[Eddie20]

Looks like the Pel's don't have to take back much salary.  If it goes down, might look something like this--

NOL gets Young, Jerebko, Bos 2016 1st
CLE gets AB, Anderson, Sully, Dal 2016 1st + the 2017 BKL swap rights
C's get Love

How do you trade "swap rights"?

I think you mean the 2017 BOS pick (w/ right to swap)

We can't trade both our 2016 1st and our 2017 first. You can't trade consecutive #1s.

If you could trade swap rights, we could trade them to GS for a good return and NJ would end up with the last pick.

We can trade both our own 1st's in consecutive years as long as we have a 1st rd pick coming in from another team(which we do).

[nostar]

Cleveland has the expiring contract of Mosgov at 5M and a lot of minimum deals. That is hard to make something work that isn't Mosgov/Williams and a late 2018 1st rounder for Anderson, which the Pelicans might take if that is all that is offered. I would imagine there are better deals for Anderson on the table though.

Whereas we could step in and offer larger expirings, added picks closer to the middle of the draft (maybe even the beginning!) and possibly get Cleveland the wing depth they seem to need.

I definitely don't think that stuff should net us Kevin Love but I'd be just thrilled if a package of expirings to NOLA along with a mid-to-late 1st, and some combination of Turner, AB and Jerebko to Cleveland along with the BKN pick was enough to get us Love. It shouldn't be, but if Cleveland thinks the key to getting past the West teams is perimeter D and high percentage 3pt shooting...of Love, AB, Anderson and Jerebko, Love is the lowest percentage 3pt shooter and he's probably only a better defender than Anderson.

[crimson_stallion]

...
If you look at Sully's Per 36 numbers this year and compare them to Love's Per 36 numbers, they are pretty darn close.  Love is +2 on scoring, but Sully is shoots a higher percentage (as scary as that is to say) and is rebounding at a slightly better rate.  Sully is way up on assists, and is a significant better defensive player (IMHO) than Love is.

Playing time is also a moot point since Sully averaged just under 28 MPG for the previous two seasons, and the only reason his minutes are down this year is because we have a logjam up front. 
...

Playing time is not a moot point because Sully has horrible conditioning.

And why even mention Sully's minutes from previous season if we are only going to look at Love's numbers in Cleveland? If we are going to talk about Sully's previous 2 seasons, we should also consider Love's last season in Minny.

I'm mentioning Sully's previous two seasons only in relation to minutes played and no other statistic. 

The fact that Sully was capable of playing 27-28 MPG the past two seasons shows that despite conditioning concerns, he's still capable of playing starters minutes.  He probably can't play 32 or 36 minutes and remain effective, but at 28 minutes he is fine.

On a 'per 28 minute' basis Sully is averaging 11.85 points, 10.17 rebounds, 2.75 assists, 1.08 steals, 0.84 blocks, 1.55 turnovers and 3.35 fouls while shooting 43%/27%/63%.

In 32 minutes Love is averaging 15.7 points, 10.3 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.6 blocks, 1.8 turnovers and 2.1 fouls while shooting 42%/37%/80%.

So even if you apply a 28 minute cap on Sully's playing time, Love still only gives you the benefit of:

* 4 PPG
* Dependable three point shot
* More consistent free throw shooting

Once again that is a significant enough enough gain to justify upgrading if the price is right.  But I find it very hard to justify giving up a core player that is very important to our team (e.g. Bradley) and a draft pick with #1 potential, for such a relatively modest upgrade. 

Again, I would rather just re-sign Sully and then go after Horford or Dwight in free agency with our abundance of cap space.
 

[crimson_stallion]

Looks like the Pel's don't have to take back much salary.  If it goes down, might look something like this--

NOL gets Young, Jerebko, Bos 2016 1st
CLE gets AB, Anderson, Sully, Dal 2016 1st + the 2017 BKL swap rights
C's get Love

good lord I hope that's not it.  too much.

Young (prospect), Sully (starting PF/C), AB (starting SG), Jerebko (backup SF/PF) and 3 firsts including a Brooklyn pick for 2017 for Love?  too much.   take the Nets swap off the table.

I can actually kinda live with that. 

Boston gets Love and keeps the 2016 Nets pick...

Pelicans get the Celtics 2016 pick (which will be a mid-late first), a very raw prosepct (Young) and a 3rd tier role player (Jerebko) for Anderson

Clevleand gets Bradley, Anderson, Sully, Dallas 2016 first (mid to late 1st rounder) and the 2017 BRK pick (which I expect to go 8-12 range) for Love.

I mean I'm not the biggest fan of Love, but I think that's a pretty reasonably deal.   Maybe a bit of an overpay to Cleveleand, but not dramatically so.

I don't see trades that way.  I look at them as "what's the net exchange for the C's"?  from that POV, this trade is a net overpayment for the C's.

I see what you're saying, and that's a valid point. 

Basically talking about us giving up a prospect (Young), three rotation players (Sully, Bradley and Jerebko) and three first rounders (one with the potential to be high lottery)...and all we get back is Love.

When you think about it that way it does feel like a massive, massive overpay.  I mean realistically, a deal like that is what you'd expect to give up for Westbrook, or maybe Cousins/Griffin. 
 

[SHAQATTACK]

Marc Stein ...two minutes ago ....thinks Cavs keeping love for this years run and see what happens , then make a decsions in Summer .

[guava_wrench]

...
If you look at Sully's Per 36 numbers this year and compare them to Love's Per 36 numbers, they are pretty darn close.  Love is +2 on scoring, but Sully is shoots a higher percentage (as scary as that is to say) and is rebounding at a slightly better rate.  Sully is way up on assists, and is a significant better defensive player (IMHO) than Love is.

Playing time is also a moot point since Sully averaged just under 28 MPG for the previous two seasons, and the only reason his minutes are down this year is because we have a logjam up front. 
...

Playing time is not a moot point because Sully has horrible conditioning.

And why even mention Sully's minutes from previous season if we are only going to look at Love's numbers in Cleveland? If we are going to talk about Sully's previous 2 seasons, we should also consider Love's last season in Minny.

I'm mentioning Sully's previous two seasons only in relation to minutes played and no other statistic. 

The fact that Sully was capable of playing 27-28 MPG the past two seasons shows that despite conditioning concerns, he's still capable of playing starters minutes.  He probably can't play 32 or 36 minutes and remain effective, but at 28 minutes he is fine.
...

And that is cherry picking.

The fact that Love was an all-NBA player 2 years ago shows that despite fit concerns in Cleveland, he's still capable of being a top NBA player.

If you are going to be so generous in evaluating Sully when convenient to your argument, you should be doing the same even when it hurts your argument.

[D Dub]

Looks like the Pel's don't have to take back much salary.  If it goes down, might look something like this--

NOL gets Young, Jerebko, Bos 2016 1st
CLE gets AB, Anderson, Sully, Dal 2016 1st + the 2017 BKL swap rights
C's get Love

good lord I hope that's not it.  too much.

Young (prospect), Sully (starting PF/C), AB (starting SG), Jerebko (backup SF/PF) and 3 firsts including a Brooklyn pick for 2017 for Love?  too much.   take the Nets swap off the table.

I can actually kinda live with that. 

Boston gets Love and keeps the 2016 Nets pick...

Pelicans get the Celtics 2016 pick (which will be a mid-late first), a very raw prosepct (Young) and a 3rd tier role player (Jerebko) for Anderson

Clevleand gets Bradley, Anderson, Sully, Dallas 2016 first (mid to late 1st rounder) and the 2017 BRK pick (which I expect to go 8-12 range) for Love.

I mean I'm not the biggest fan of Love, but I think that's a pretty reasonably deal.   Maybe a bit of an overpay to Cleveleand, but not dramatically so.

I don't see trades that way.  I look at them as "what's the net exchange for the C's"?  from that POV, this trade is a net overpayment for the C's.

I see what you're saying, and that's a valid point. 

Basically talking about us giving up a prospect (Young), three rotation players (Sully, Bradley and Jerebko) and three first rounders (one with the potential to be high lottery)...and all we get back is Love.

When you think about it that way it does feel like a massive, massive overpay.  I mean realistically, a deal like that is what you'd expect to give up for Westbrook, or maybe Cousins/Griffin. 
 

It's a lot, for sure, but we're one of the deepest teams in the league just for this reason.   Adding Love without giving up our three most valuable players, or the 16 BK pick, would be incredible!   

Thomas  Smart Crowder  Love  Amir

Would still have a Lee/Olynyk/BKL Pick package at our disposal.   

[Dino Pitino]

According to Bulpett, Ainge is not willing to give the Nets pick for Love. Good.

[rondohondo]

According to Bulpett, Ainge is not willing to give the Nets pick for Love. Good.

hmmm , but is he willing to give up AB and Crowder for them ?

[Cman]

Marc Stein ...two minutes ago ....thinks Cavs keeping love for this years run and see what happens , then make a decsions in Summer .

Makes sense. It is what Danny should do as well.

[ssspence]

According to Bulpett, Ainge is not willing to give the Nets pick for Love. Good.

Link?

[rondohondo]

While league sources indicated that, in the words of one, “nothing is really hot with Boston,” Danny Ainge and Co. are still said to be working to pry loose something major. In that vein, for example, Doc Rivers has said the Clippers aren’t trading Blake Griffin, but it’s a fair bet the Celtics will revisit the topic before the clock next strikes 3 p.m. EST Thursday.

It would take someone on Griffin’s level to get Ainge to part with the first-round pick from Brooklyn, but sources tell the Herald it would definitely be on the table in that case

.

And word is the Celtics would also be unwilling to part with the Nets’ pick if the Cavaliers choose to be more interested in making Kevin Love available. The C’s have never really stopped being interested in Love after their hot pursuit in the summer of 2014 when he was with the Timberwolves, and it was reported here that if Cleveland didn’t come through with the big contract last summer, Love would have been looking at Boston as a landing spot.

But now with his large deal in place and physical questions (sources say a knee problem may be more of an issue than his back or shoulder), how much would the C’s be willing to offer? And, again, that presupposes the Cavs change their stance and look harder and what Love could bring back on the open market.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2016/02/bulpett_celtics_still_aiming_for_big_deal

[j804]

According to Bulpett, Ainge is not willing to give the Nets pick for Love. Good.

hmmm , but is he willing to give up AB and Crowder for them ?

I hope not we'd be in the same or worse place

[slamtheking]

Looks like the Pel's don't have to take back much salary.  If it goes down, might look something like this--

NOL gets Young, Jerebko, Bos 2016 1st
CLE gets AB, Anderson, Sully, Dal 2016 1st + the 2017 BKL swap rights
C's get Love

good lord I hope that's not it.  too much.

Young (prospect), Sully (starting PF/C), AB (starting SG), Jerebko (backup SF/PF) and 3 firsts including a Brooklyn pick for 2017 for Love?  too much.   take the Nets swap off the table.

I can actually kinda live with that. 

Boston gets Love and keeps the 2016 Nets pick...

Pelicans get the Celtics 2016 pick (which will be a mid-late first), a very raw prosepct (Young) and a 3rd tier role player (Jerebko) for Anderson

Clevleand gets Bradley, Anderson, Sully, Dallas 2016 first (mid to late 1st rounder) and the 2017 BRK pick (which I expect to go 8-12 range) for Love.

I mean I'm not the biggest fan of Love, but I think that's a pretty reasonably deal.   Maybe a bit of an overpay to Cleveleand, but not dramatically so.

I don't see trades that way.  I look at them as "what's the net exchange for the C's"?  from that POV, this trade is a net overpayment for the C's.

I see what you're saying, and that's a valid point. 

Basically talking about us giving up a prospect (Young), three rotation players (Sully, Bradley and Jerebko) and three first rounders (one with the potential to be high lottery)...and all we get back is Love.

When you think about it that way it does feel like a massive, massive overpay.  I mean realistically, a deal like that is what you'd expect to give up for Westbrook, or maybe Cousins/Griffin. 
 

and that's my point, for that amount of assets going out, we should be getting back a top player that has no question marks.  someone who is unquestionably the top player on a contender.  to me, Love isn't that player.  He has questions about his abilities (I think a bit overstated) and his ability to be the top dog on a top team (which I think are valid).

[slamtheking]

Looks like the Pel's don't have to take back much salary.  If it goes down, might look something like this--

NOL gets Young, Jerebko, Bos 2016 1st
CLE gets AB, Anderson, Sully, Dal 2016 1st + the 2017 BKL swap rights
C's get Love

good lord I hope that's not it.  too much.

Young (prospect), Sully (starting PF/C), AB (starting SG), Jerebko (backup SF/PF) and 3 firsts including a Brooklyn pick for 2017 for Love?  too much.   take the Nets swap off the table.

I can actually kinda live with that. 

Boston gets Love and keeps the 2016 Nets pick...

Pelicans get the Celtics 2016 pick (which will be a mid-late first), a very raw prosepct (Young) and a 3rd tier role player (Jerebko) for Anderson

Clevleand gets Bradley, Anderson, Sully, Dallas 2016 first (mid to late 1st rounder) and the 2017 BRK pick (which I expect to go 8-12 range) for Love.

I mean I'm not the biggest fan of Love, but I think that's a pretty reasonably deal.   Maybe a bit of an overpay to Cleveleand, but not dramatically so.

I don't see trades that way.  I look at them as "what's the net exchange for the C's"?  from that POV, this trade is a net overpayment for the C's.

I see what you're saying, and that's a valid point. 

Basically talking about us giving up a prospect (Young), three rotation players (Sully, Bradley and Jerebko) and three first rounders (one with the potential to be high lottery)...and all we get back is Love.

When you think about it that way it does feel like a massive, massive overpay.  I mean realistically, a deal like that is what you'd expect to give up for Westbrook, or maybe Cousins/Griffin. 
 

It's a lot, for sure, but we're one of the deepest teams in the league just for this reason.   Adding Love without giving up our three most valuable players, or the 16 BK pick, would be incredible!   

Thomas  Smart Crowder  Love  Amir

Would still have a Lee/Olynyk/BKL Pick package at our disposal.   

just because we have that many assets to use doesn't mean we should use more than what's necessary for a fair payment.  If you went to buy a new TV that cost $500, would you pay them $600 just because you had $1000 in the bank?  of course not.  no different here.

put it another way, wouldn't you be kicking yourself if in giving away this many assets, Danny ended up shorting himself in another deal where one of these assets would have been enough to bring in another top player?

I don't get the mentality that we have so many assets we should be just giving them away to everyone else.  No matter what you have, always get fair (or better) value for what you give up.