Happy trails to Hinkie's Power.

[GC003332]

Yawn, until they win 50 games in back to back seasons and go deep into the playoffs a couple of times , seriously who gives a rats about them,wake me up when that happens if it indeed happens within the next 5 years.
League history is filled with teams that have had multiple top 5 picks and achieved nothing.

[MBunge]

They have one of the brightest futures of any team in this league.

It's not brighter than Boston's or Minnesota's or Utah's.  And 2 1/2 years into Hinkie's plan, that future is still almost entirely dependent on getting lucky.  Things could certainly still work out great for Philly.  Nab Simmons and Skal in the draft and a brain-damaged sloth could make them into a contender.  But the odds are against that happening.

Las Vegas loves people who bet big against the odds.

Mike

[Who]

I think Philly will have a pretty good three man young core to build around next year.

(1) Okafor
(2) Noel (or who they trade him for)
(3) Top 5 pick

Plus, some other young talent. Other firsts they are owed. Saric. Jerami Grant.

It is more about resolving that Noel-Okafor problem. Give their team more shape. Once they do that, I think they will have a talented young core to start moving forward with.

[HomerSapien]

...  Most of the people on this forum simply don't understand what Philly is doing...

LarBrd33 cannot comprehend that everybody understands what Philadelphia is doing.

and, seemingly, he relies upon the opinion of a man who was just demoted. hinkie is on the way out. i see no reason why we should rely upon his quotes about his position to inform us of his future with the 76ers.

76er owership had just told the world what they think of hinkie's plan to date.

If this is true then it is also an admission of what they think of there own plan because ownership signed off on ”the process” from day 1.

I'm not convinced that Hinkie is being totally neutered as a result of the Coangelo move. I think it is an admission that they have lost the battle of public opinion, and that the organization needs help repairing that, and also that ownership now wants phase II of the rebuild to start soon.

The hard part of this process is actually turning all the great assets they've accumulated into a talented basketball team capable of winning games.

[LarBrd33]

...  Most of the people on this forum simply don't understand what Philly is doing...

LarBrd33 cannot comprehend that everybody understands what Philadelphia is doing.

and, seemingly, he relies upon the opinion of a man who was just demoted. hinkie is on the way out. i see no reason why we should rely upon his quotes about his position to inform us of his future with the 76ers.

76er owership had just told the world what they think of hinkie's plan to date.

If this is true then it is also an admission of what they think of there own plan because ownership signed off on ”the process” from day 1.

I'm not convinced that Hinkie is being totally neutered as a result of the Coangelo move. I think it is an admission that they have lost the battle of public opinion, and that the organization needs help repairing that, and also that ownership now wants phase II of the rebuild to start soon.

The hard part of this process is actually turning all the great assets they've accumulated into a talented basketball team capable of winning games.

Phase II of the rebuild probably would have started this offseason had Embiid been healthy and Saric came over.   It'll start this Summer.  Unless you consider signing Elton Brand and maybe a couple small-level trades to bring in a PG "the beginning of Phase II", this team will tank until the Summer and deal with it then (as they should... and as they have clearly been planning to do). 

I honestly don't even care what Philly does and I'd be happy to see them fall on their faces.  As a Celtic fan, I've never had love for Philly.  But as long as I see the majority of this board trumpeting around with in accurate view of their situation, I'll probably continue to respond.  I don't know how anyone can look at Okafor, Noel, potentially two top 5 picks, Saric, Embiid, two other 1st rounders, various young pieces and unlimited cap space and not understand the type of options PHilly has this Summer... especially considering that every trade idea thread on this board has us moving either Marcus Smart (worse asset than Okafor) and/or the Brooklyn pick (worse asset than Philly's pick) for a star.  You'd think those people would be able to understand the value of Philly's hoard.   On CelticsBlog there's a broad misunderstanding of Philly's situation fueled by media that caters to casuals and an underlying pro-Boston bias that clouds your logic.   There's only a few people here that seem to "get it" with Philly and those are generally the fans that see the value in prospects, draft picks, cap space and have the ability to see the long-term big picture.   It doesn't surprise me that respected NBA voices like Zach Lowe, Van Gundy and our own Jeff ( http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/12/9/9878000/here-come-the-sixers-eventually ) seem to understand the big picture... you don't see them trumpeting the whole "Lolz, Philly Failed Ha ha ha" that most folks here like to ramble about.     

I'm not going to apologize to anyone here for defending Philly's "plan" as long as I continue to get the impression that most here simply don't understand Philly's "plan".  If anyone here thinks they already failed... they don't get it.

[MBunge]

...  Most of the people on this forum simply don't understand what Philly is doing...

LarBrd33 cannot comprehend that everybody understands what Philadelphia is doing.

and, seemingly, he relies upon the opinion of a man who was just demoted. hinkie is on the way out. i see no reason why we should rely upon his quotes about his position to inform us of his future with the 76ers.

76er owership had just told the world what they think of hinkie's plan to date.

If this is true then it is also an admission of what they think of there own plan because ownership signed off on ”the process” from day 1.

I'm not convinced that Hinkie is being totally neutered as a result of the Coangelo move. I think it is an admission that they have lost the battle of public opinion, and that the organization needs help repairing that, and also that ownership now wants phase II of the rebuild to start soon.

The hard part of this process is actually turning all the great assets they've accumulated into a talented basketball team capable of winning games.

Phase II of the rebuild probably would have started this offseason had Embiid been healthy and Saric came over.   It'll start this Summer.  Unless you consider signing Elton Brand and maybe a couple small-level trades to bring in a PG "the beginning of Phase II", this team will tank until the Summer and deal with it then (as they should... and as they have clearly been planning to do). 

I honestly don't even care what Philly does and I'd be happy to see them fall on their faces.  As a Celtic fan, I've never had love for Philly.  But as long as I see the majority of this board trumpeting around with in accurate view of their situation, I'll probably continue to respond.  I don't know how anyone can look at Okafor, Noel, potentially two top 5 picks, Saric, Embiid, two other 1st rounders, various young pieces and unlimited cap space and not understand the type of options PHilly has this Summer... especially considering that every trade idea thread on this board has us moving either Marcus Smart (worse asset than Okafor) and/or the Brooklyn pick (worse asset than Philly's pick) for a star.  You'd think those people would be able to understand the value of Philly's hoard.   On CelticsBlog there's a broad misunderstanding of Philly's situation fueled by media that caters to casuals and an underlying pro-Boston bias that clouds your logic.   There's only a few people here that seem to "get it" with Philly and those are generally the fans that see the value in prospects, draft picks, cap space and have the ability to see the long-term big picture.   It doesn't surprise me that respected NBA voices like Zach Lowe, Van Gundy and our own Jeff ( http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/12/9/9878000/here-come-the-sixers-eventually ) seem to understand the big picture... you don't see them trumpeting the whole "Lolz, Philly Failed Ha ha ha" that most folks here like to ramble about.     

I'm not going to apologize to anyone here for defending Philly's "plan" as long as I continue to get the impression that most here simply don't understand Philly's "plan".  If anyone here thinks they already failed... they don't get it.

The main reason this Philly debate goes on the way it does is because of you.

The suggestion that you need to "correct" anyone on this board is childishly arrogant.  You've accused others of being obsessed with you and now you've just admitted the truth that you are obsessed with everyone else.

That's not even the biggest problem, though.  The biggest problem is that your posts are so full of ridiculous, non-responsive arguments.  There isn't a single intelligent person who would deny that Philly has a lot of valuable assets.  You refuse to acknowledge that the ultimate value of those assets is debateable.

Philly has Noel, Embiid and Okafor.  Noel looks nothing like a franchise player, Embiid is a medical question mark and Okafor just had a giant red warning flag go up on his off-court behavior.  Additionally, they all play the same position and it's unclear if any of them can play effectively on the same court at the same time.  Which means at least one or perhaps two of them have to be traded, and if other teams know you have to trade a player it weakens your bargaining position in negotiations.

As of right now, no one knows how good Saric would be in the NBA or when it's absolutely certain he'll even step on an NBA court.

The Lakers are tanking as hard as they can to make sure Philly does not get their pick in the next draft.  Even if they fail, Philly could easily wind up with the 4th and 5th picks next year and again miss out on a true franchise-altering superstar.

The other two first rounders they're getting this year look to be in the mid to late 20s, which would make them exactly the type of players Philly's been avoiding like the plague since they'll be good enough to help you win a few more games but not good enough to lift you above mediocrity.

They don't have any other young pieces anyone in the league cares about.  Covington is about the best they've got and I'd bet money other GMs see him as "guy putting up stats on horrible team."

And while they have huge cap space, so does essentially every other team in the league and all of them are much more appealing to free agents.  Any decent free agent that Phiily goes after is going to be offered the same money from a team that hasn't been a dumpster fire for three years.

Does Philly have assets?  Yes.  Is future success possible?  Yes.  Has " The Process" been validated as better than any other rebuilding plan?  Not even close.  Philly could easily go through a half-decade of the worst basketball ever seen in the league and emerge with a team that never does more than make the Eastern Finals a time or two.  Would that be a success?

Mike

[LarBrd33]

...  Most of the people on this forum simply don't understand what Philly is doing...

LarBrd33 cannot comprehend that everybody understands what Philadelphia is doing.

and, seemingly, he relies upon the opinion of a man who was just demoted. hinkie is on the way out. i see no reason why we should rely upon his quotes about his position to inform us of his future with the 76ers.

76er owership had just told the world what they think of hinkie's plan to date.

If this is true then it is also an admission of what they think of there own plan because ownership signed off on ”the process” from day 1.

I'm not convinced that Hinkie is being totally neutered as a result of the Coangelo move. I think it is an admission that they have lost the battle of public opinion, and that the organization needs help repairing that, and also that ownership now wants phase II of the rebuild to start soon.

The hard part of this process is actually turning all the great assets they've accumulated into a talented basketball team capable of winning games.

Phase II of the rebuild probably would have started this offseason had Embiid been healthy and Saric came over.   It'll start this Summer.  Unless you consider signing Elton Brand and maybe a couple small-level trades to bring in a PG "the beginning of Phase II", this team will tank until the Summer and deal with it then (as they should... and as they have clearly been planning to do). 

I honestly don't even care what Philly does and I'd be happy to see them fall on their faces.  As a Celtic fan, I've never had love for Philly.  But as long as I see the majority of this board trumpeting around with in accurate view of their situation, I'll probably continue to respond.  I don't know how anyone can look at Okafor, Noel, potentially two top 5 picks, Saric, Embiid, two other 1st rounders, various young pieces and unlimited cap space and not understand the type of options PHilly has this Summer... especially considering that every trade idea thread on this board has us moving either Marcus Smart (worse asset than Okafor) and/or the Brooklyn pick (worse asset than Philly's pick) for a star.  You'd think those people would be able to understand the value of Philly's hoard.   On CelticsBlog there's a broad misunderstanding of Philly's situation fueled by media that caters to casuals and an underlying pro-Boston bias that clouds your logic.   There's only a few people here that seem to "get it" with Philly and those are generally the fans that see the value in prospects, draft picks, cap space and have the ability to see the long-term big picture.   It doesn't surprise me that respected NBA voices like Zach Lowe, Van Gundy and our own Jeff ( http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/12/9/9878000/here-come-the-sixers-eventually ) seem to understand the big picture... you don't see them trumpeting the whole "Lolz, Philly Failed Ha ha ha" that most folks here like to ramble about.     

I'm not going to apologize to anyone here for defending Philly's "plan" as long as I continue to get the impression that most here simply don't understand Philly's "plan".  If anyone here thinks they already failed... they don't get it.

 Has " The Process" been validated as better than any other rebuilding plan? 

Mike

Nobody should have expected the process to be validated at this stage.  We also shouldn't expect to know if it was a failure for a long while.  We are at least a couple years away from knowing if it worked.  So all these "they failed" posts are extremely premature.  That said, they landed a clear star prospect in the most recent draft... That's arguably enough validation for the process as-is.

[celticsclay]

...  Most of the people on this forum simply don't understand what Philly is doing...

LarBrd33 cannot comprehend that everybody understands what Philadelphia is doing.

and, seemingly, he relies upon the opinion of a man who was just demoted. hinkie is on the way out. i see no reason why we should rely upon his quotes about his position to inform us of his future with the 76ers.

76er owership had just told the world what they think of hinkie's plan to date.

If this is true then it is also an admission of what they think of there own plan because ownership signed off on ”the process” from day 1.

I'm not convinced that Hinkie is being totally neutered as a result of the Coangelo move. I think it is an admission that they have lost the battle of public opinion, and that the organization needs help repairing that, and also that ownership now wants phase II of the rebuild to start soon.

The hard part of this process is actually turning all the great assets they've accumulated into a talented basketball team capable of winning games.

Phase II of the rebuild probably would have started this offseason had Embiid been healthy and Saric came over.   It'll start this Summer.  Unless you consider signing Elton Brand and maybe a couple small-level trades to bring in a PG "the beginning of Phase II", this team will tank until the Summer and deal with it then (as they should... and as they have clearly been planning to do). 

I honestly don't even care what Philly does and I'd be happy to see them fall on their faces.  As a Celtic fan, I've never had love for Philly.  But as long as I see the majority of this board trumpeting around with in accurate view of their situation, I'll probably continue to respond.  I don't know how anyone can look at Okafor, Noel, potentially two top 5 picks, Saric, Embiid, two other 1st rounders, various young pieces and unlimited cap space and not understand the type of options PHilly has this Summer... especially considering that every trade idea thread on this board has us moving either Marcus Smart (worse asset than Okafor) and/or the Brooklyn pick (worse asset than Philly's pick) for a star.  You'd think those people would be able to understand the value of Philly's hoard.   On CelticsBlog there's a broad misunderstanding of Philly's situation fueled by media that caters to casuals and an underlying pro-Boston bias that clouds your logic.   There's only a few people here that seem to "get it" with Philly and those are generally the fans that see the value in prospects, draft picks, cap space and have the ability to see the long-term big picture.   It doesn't surprise me that respected NBA voices like Zach Lowe, Van Gundy and our own Jeff ( http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/12/9/9878000/here-come-the-sixers-eventually ) seem to understand the big picture... you don't see them trumpeting the whole "Lolz, Philly Failed Ha ha ha" that most folks here like to ramble about.     

I'm not going to apologize to anyone here for defending Philly's "plan" as long as I continue to get the impression that most here simply don't understand Philly's "plan".  If anyone here thinks they already failed... they don't get it.

 Has " The Process" been validated as better than any other rebuilding plan? 

Mike

Nobody should have expected the process to be validated at this stage.  We also shouldn't expect to know if it was a failure for a long while.  We are at least a couple years away from knowing if it worked.  So all these "they failed" posts are extremely premature.  That said, they landed a clear star prospect in the most recent draft... That's arguably enough validation for the process as-is.

jeez dude. Okafor clearly isn't a certified star 22 games into a 1-21 campaign. Jennings, Evans and others have put up incredible stats in their first 20 games and never have become stars. Lets pump the breaks. Also lets just pump the breaks in general with the philly stuff. It is taking over the board.

[Who]

"I have to mentor and I have to advise, and I mean that across the board -- ownership, coaching," Colangelo said Sunday. "Brett has been on the phone with me a lot. There aren't a lot of basketball people in the organization. And then with Sam, I've been there and done that, and I'm trying to help, move things along."

Pretty [dang]ing about the Sixers front office.

Sounds like they got too many stats guys and not enough basketball voices to provide a balanced point of view. Too many similar minds with limited basketball backgrounds.

 

After the news conference announcing Brown's extension, Hinkie said he welcomed Colangelo and his extensive contacts.

"My network and his network don't overlap a lot," Hinkie said. "The folks I have on speed dial and the folks he has on speed dial are very different. He has deep and wide relationships with the best players in the world, particularly the best players in our country. I don't think that's going to be a panacea immediately, but I'd be shocked if that doesn't help us over time."

[LarBrd33]

"I have to mentor and I have to advise, and I mean that across the board -- ownership, coaching," Colangelo said Sunday. "Brett has been on the phone with me a lot. There aren't a lot of basketball people in the organization. And then with Sam, I've been there and done that, and I'm trying to help, move things along."

Pretty [dang]ing about the Sixers front office.

Sounds like they got too many stats guys and not enough basketball voices to provide a balanced point of view. Too many similar minds with limited basketball backgrounds.

 

After the news conference announcing Brown's extension, Hinkie said he welcomed Colangelo and his extensive contacts.

"My network and his network don't overlap a lot," Hinkie said. "The folks I have on speed dial and the folks he has on speed dial are very different. He has deep and wide relationships with the best players in the world, particularly the best players in our country. I don't think that's going to be a panacea immediately, but I'd be shocked if that doesn't help us over time."

Smart move bringing in more opinions as they move to the next stage of their plan this Summer.   We've seen non-traditional GM's acquire loads of assets and then make mistakes down the line.  Sam Presti comes to mind. 

[PhoSita]

"I have to mentor and I have to advise, and I mean that across the board -- ownership, coaching," Colangelo said Sunday. "Brett has been on the phone with me a lot. There aren't a lot of basketball people in the organization. And then with Sam, I've been there and done that, and I'm trying to help, move things along."

Pretty [dang]ing about the Sixers front office.

Sounds like they got too many stats guys and not enough basketball voices to provide a balanced point of view. Too many similar minds with limited basketball backgrounds.

 

After the news conference announcing Brown's extension, Hinkie said he welcomed Colangelo and his extensive contacts.

"My network and his network don't overlap a lot," Hinkie said. "The folks I have on speed dial and the folks he has on speed dial are very different. He has deep and wide relationships with the best players in the world, particularly the best players in our country. I don't think that's going to be a panacea immediately, but I'd be shocked if that doesn't help us over time."

Makes a lot of sense, when you look at the moves they've made.  Good sense on paper, from a purely theoretical, big picture standpoint. 

A lot of poor moves with respect to managing relationships and actually making it work on the floor.

Hiring Colangelo might mean that Hinkie is basically done.  That's probably what's going on here.  That said, hiring a traditional basketball mind to help cover Hinkie's blind spots in that area would make a ton of sense.

Probably shoulda done that when they hired Hinkie to begin "The Process," though.

[LarBrd33]

"I have to mentor and I have to advise, and I mean that across the board -- ownership, coaching," Colangelo said Sunday. "Brett has been on the phone with me a lot. There aren't a lot of basketball people in the organization. And then with Sam, I've been there and done that, and I'm trying to help, move things along."

Pretty [dang]ing about the Sixers front office.

Sounds like they got too many stats guys and not enough basketball voices to provide a balanced point of view. Too many similar minds with limited basketball backgrounds.

 

After the news conference announcing Brown's extension, Hinkie said he welcomed Colangelo and his extensive contacts.

"My network and his network don't overlap a lot," Hinkie said. "The folks I have on speed dial and the folks he has on speed dial are very different. He has deep and wide relationships with the best players in the world, particularly the best players in our country. I don't think that's going to be a panacea immediately, but I'd be shocked if that doesn't help us over time."

Makes a lot of sense, when you look at the moves they've made.  Good sense on paper, from a purely theoretical, big picture standpoint. 

A lot of poor moves with respect to managing relationships and actually making it work on the floor.

Hiring Colangelo might mean that Hinkie is basically done.  That's probably what's going on here.  That said, hiring a traditional basketball mind to help cover Hinkie's blind spots in that area would make a ton of sense.

Probably shoulda done that when they hired Hinkie to begin "The Process," though.

I'm not sure why you'd hire a basketball guy until you were ready to actually try winning basketball games.   Hinkie's job was to lose as much as possible, acquire assets, rent out cap space while acquiring more assets, take chances on d-league talent that could be flipped for more assets...   And then at some point, flip a switch and try forming a team.   They will be in team forming mode after the season.  Good to bring in Colangelo now so he can spend the remaining part of the season evaluating the players on the team, getting familiar with the league in general (hes' been gone for a while) and help determine the next move.   Noel and Okafor are both really talented young players with bright futures.  I'd still bet on Embiid playing next season so it would be foolish to sell low on him until they see what he can do.   That's a lot of talent there that doesn't fit together.  The ceilings are high on all those guys.  You don't generally abandon a very talented big man a year or two into his career.  It puts them in a great position when they are ready to make trades... but it's also a nerve-wracking position.  I wouldn't want to be the one to trade away any of those guys in the infancy of their careers... and they inevitably will need to.  Tough decisions are ahead.  They can't just have purely analytic guys in the war room when they start trying to construct a winner.  I don't think a guy like Colangelo served a purpose until now. 

[SHAQATTACK]

Major market sucking at making their shard of revenue .

I'm not liking the special treatment the owners are giving 76ers to HELP them rebuild ......the stupid Owners are the one at fault .....they get all the draft picks and now the special help .   That's wrong....

They should loose their rights to lottery picks for putting themselves in this situation .

Why not award special help to the Lakers .....? They are still producing revenue while the 76ers play a childish game and pity party for being stupid .

There should be sanctions punishment ....NOT help ......for this club.

[mctyson]

"I have to mentor and I have to advise, and I mean that across the board -- ownership, coaching," Colangelo said Sunday. "Brett has been on the phone with me a lot. There aren't a lot of basketball people in the organization. And then with Sam, I've been there and done that, and I'm trying to help, move things along."

Pretty [dang]ing about the Sixers front office.

Sounds like they got too many stats guys and not enough basketball voices to provide a balanced point of view. Too many similar minds with limited basketball backgrounds.

 

After the news conference announcing Brown's extension, Hinkie said he welcomed Colangelo and his extensive contacts.

"My network and his network don't overlap a lot," Hinkie said. "The folks I have on speed dial and the folks he has on speed dial are very different. He has deep and wide relationships with the best players in the world, particularly the best players in our country. I don't think that's going to be a panacea immediately, but I'd be shocked if that doesn't help us over time."

Makes a lot of sense, when you look at the moves they've made.  Good sense on paper, from a purely theoretical, big picture standpoint. 

A lot of poor moves with respect to managing relationships and actually making it work on the floor.

Hiring Colangelo might mean that Hinkie is basically done.  That's probably what's going on here.  That said, hiring a traditional basketball mind to help cover Hinkie's blind spots in that area would make a ton of sense.

Probably shoulda done that when they hired Hinkie to begin "The Process," though.

Hinkie should be done.  What he and the owner have done to a once-proud NBA franchise is disgusting.  If this was playing out in Charlotte or New Orleans no one would care.  Vancouver should have done this at one point.  The Clippers did it for almost 2 decades and got away with it because they had a more important team sharing their gym

I don't see how anyone can give this guy credit for doing a good job.  I could run the 76ers just as well.

[PhoSita]

I'm not sure why you'd hire a basketball guy until you were ready to actually try winning basketball games.   

Because managing a basketball franchise is about more than moving numbers or names around on a ledger sheet.  It's more than playing a strategy board game.  There are people involved.

Sure, Hinkie can design and execute "The Process" to maximize their chances of lottery picks, but even once you've got those superstar prospects in place, you need to have relationships with players, agents, other GMs, and the league office in order to successfully build the team beyond that point. 

I don't think it's arguable that Hinkie's actions (or inaction) were sabotaging the franchise in those areas.