All things DeMarcus Cousins (merged thread)

[crimson_stallion]

i know we have many that would like to take a shot at Cousins. And I have to admit, he's a great talent.
I will say his, the Kings are gonna want "everything" for him. We're talking about the Brooklyn pick... plus, plus, plus.

If we get Cousins, and he doesn't fit in, or isn't happy, or acts like the same player he presently does in Sacramento, and he then skips in free agency. It will be the biggest mistake in the history of the Celtic franchise. It will set this team back years and years. It will make the Len Bias catastrophe look like a blessing.

No...

The biggest mistake would be declining a Cousins trade, keeping the Nets pick, and drafting a player who turns out being the next huge bust.

Nobody has ever criticized a team for trading a high draft pick for a legit superstar.  Even if it doesn't work out to plan, it's a perfectly understandable move to make.  It's a deal that you make, and never regret, no matter how it turns out.

If you keep that pick, and it becomes a top 3 pick, then even with that top 3 pick you still probably only have a 1/100 chance (if that) of drafting a player as good as Cousins.  A guy that good comes along maybe 3 or 4 times in a generation.

[Roy H.]

Karl sucks. He's a terrible coach at this stage who has a huge ego.

what about Cousins' behavior here?

It sucks too...

They're grown men.  Listen to some of the stories about Doc and Rondo, or any number of other coaches and players.  If Cousins swore at Karl, I don't see it as a huge deal. 

I guess I don't care that much that Cousins cursed a two-faced egomaniac who tried to organize a mutiny in his own locker room last season, and who was initiating trade discussions without the permission of his own organization.  Karl should be fired.

[pearljammer10]

If the Kings call Boston and say Cousins is available, you come up with a package ASAP to get him here. That's a no brainer.

[Rondo9]

Karl sucks. He's a terrible coach at this stage who has a huge ego.

what about Cousins' behavior here?

It sucks too...

They're grown men.  Listen to some of the stories about Doc and Rondo, or any number of other coaches and players.  If Cousins swore at Karl, I don't see it as a huge deal. 

I guess I don't care that much that Cousins cursed a two-faced egomaniac who tried to organize a mutiny in his own locker room last season, and who was initiating trade discussions without the permission of his own organization.  Karl should be fired.

It's still unprofessional on Cousins part.

[MJohnnyboy]

Not to burst everyone's bubble here but the team that I see trading for Cousins is probably Orlando. They have a lot of young talent to offer, they have a good coach, a stable team, and best of all, with Cousins aboard, they'd become one of the sleeper teams in the east. No question.

Vucevic, Fournier (playing out of his mind this year), Hezonja, and Lakers 2017 first for Cousins. Heck that might even be an overpay for DMC.

PG:Elfrid Payton
SG:Victor Oladipo
SF:Tobias Harris
PF:Aaron Gordon
C:Demarcus Cousins

Point is, I see them more realistically having a shot than Boston does. We do have the picks, but last time I checked, Sacramento doesn't handle lottery picks too well.

Orlando is still too raw. 

They have potential to be really solid a year or two from now, but right now they just aren't quite there. 

I don't see Cousins being a good fit.  They are too young, too many soft-like-marshmellow personalities on the team.  Not enough toughness.  I don't see him having any interest in going there, and if he doesn't want to go there then it's probably not going to end well.

Boston on the other hand has a top shelf coach, and a team filled with a bunch of guys who are tough as nails.  I think Cousins would love playing with guys like Crowder, Smart, Johnson, etc.

With Boston being an up and coming playoff team, I don't think he'd oppose it either.

Boston with Cousins is a better team than Orlando with Cousins, and with the way the Nets are going Boston have the potential to add a second young superstar prospect next to him after the season. 

The problem with Orlando is that if they traded for Cousins, they'd need to trade half their starting lineup...and after that they would have no team.

Boston is TOO deep in the front court so we NEED to shed players, and we also have draft picks to burn.  We could put together a solid package for Cousins, and still have enough quality talent left over to be a scary team.

See but it doesn't matter whether or not DMC wants to go there. He doesn't have a no-trade clause so Sacramento could give him away for peanuts if they so wanted, and Sacramento will trade Cousins to the team that can give them the best offer (I think). Again, we have the picks, but Orlando has the players to entice the Kings. My point was centered around Orlando's offer more than it was the fit itself. No matter what you may think about Cousins fit with Boston, Orlando IMO has the better offer.

And I think the potential additions of Cousins helps the Magic realize their potential all the more. They would have better prospects than Cousins ever had in Sactown, and their role players aren't too shabby. Frye is a good veteran presence. CJ Watson is decent. Dwayne Dedmon, Andrew Nicholson, possibly Shabazz Napier. I like that team. It's not an instant contender, but its a playoff team in the east with ridiculous upside.

And if a Cousins trade to Boston happens, I don't see how Boston couldn't include Johnson/Lee and Smart in said deal.

[Roy H.]

Karl sucks. He's a terrible coach at this stage who has a huge ego.

what about Cousins' behavior here?

It sucks too...

They're grown men.  Listen to some of the stories about Doc and Rondo, or any number of other coaches and players.  If Cousins swore at Karl, I don't see it as a huge deal. 

I guess I don't care that much that Cousins cursed a two-faced egomaniac who tried to organize a mutiny in his own locker room last season, and who was initiating trade discussions without the permission of his own organization.  Karl should be fired.

It's still unprofessional on Cousins part.

Perhaps.  My experience is that when you put passionate, competitive people together, there are going to be blowups from time to time.  Every team I've ever been on has had the occasional skirmish, and I'm sure the higher and higher the competition goes -- and thus the stakes -- the more emotional those scenes get.

Cousins called a team meeting, and he got in touch with each of his teammates saying that he believed in them.  He's consistently been leading optional workouts and practices, showing up at summer league, etc.  Omri Casspi said that Cousins showed good leadership in this most recent incident.  I'm not judging.

[celticdog]

I dont know much about Karl, other than he coached the Sonics to the Finals.  Could someone give me a run down on what hes done in the past to earn a bad reputation? 

Regarding Cousins, his talent is incredible but he seems like a real cancer.  I hate watching him quit on plays.  His demeanor is immature and brings his team down.  I could definitely see him casuing a coach to want to work elsewhere. 

He's a scary guy.  Im skeptical Amir, Lee and Smart would be able and willing to provide him with bipolarity treatment throughout the season. 

What if the pick we traded for him turned out to be an amazing player?  I know it is unlikely but it is possible. 

[Rosco917]

i know we have many that would like to take a shot at Cousins. And I have to admit, he's a great talent.
I will say his, the Kings are gonna want "everything" for him. We're talking about the Brooklyn pick... plus, plus, plus.

If we get Cousins, and he doesn't fit in, or isn't happy, or acts like the same player he presently does in Sacramento, and he then skips in free agency. It will be the biggest mistake in the history of the Celtic franchise. It will set this team back years and years. It will make the Len Bias catastrophe look like a blessing.

No...

The biggest mistake would be declining a Cousins trade, keeping the Nets pick, and drafting a player who turns out being the next huge bust.

Nobody has ever criticized a team for trading a high draft pick for a legit superstar.  Even if it doesn't work out to plan, it's a perfectly understandable move to make.  It's a deal that you make, and never regret, no matter how it turns out.

If you keep that pick, and it becomes a top 3 pick, then even with that top 3 pick you still probably only have a 1/100 chance (if that) of drafting a player as good as Cousins.  A guy that good comes along maybe 3 or 4 times in a generation.

You're taking for granted the draft pick will be a bust. You're also taking for granted, we can't get another star type of player, for a similar trade package. You're also taking for granted Cousins is a "normal" superstar, and not pretty much of an idiot.

[byennie]

I'd start the discussion with something practical, like:

David Lee (expiring) + James Young + Kelly Olynyk + (best of Boston, Minny, Dallas 2016) + (Boston 2017 after swap with Brooklyn) + Brooklyn 2018

DeMarcus Cousins + Marco Bellineli (deadweight contract for rebuild)

Sacramento would get two young guys with years left on their deals, a mid-1st rounder, and the next two Brooklyn picks, and dump a little extra salary. They can run out KO, WCS, Young, McClemore the rest of the way and tank.

They'll *want* more but it's not a bad offer if they're in a pinch.

[crimson_stallion]

I think cousins is more sheed then kg as far as personality. The talent is great but the immaturity and volatility is disconcerting. Cussing out your coach in from of the whole team is absolutely childish.

As far as the pick. It depends. I it's number one overall I might just go with Ben Simmons. If it's later then I still would roll the dice on cousins but I think it's a bigger risk then ppl think. There legitimately might be a mental issue with DMC that doesn't allow him to control his emotions.

You mean the Rasheed that was arguably the best player on a championship Pistons squad?

Also Rasheed had nowhere near Cousin's talent level.  Rasheed was good, but Cousins is all-time-great good.  Rasheed was also one of the to 1 or 2 players on quite a few very competitive teams over his career.

If I had chance at a 25 year old Rasheed Wallace right now, then I would trade an unknown draft pick for him any day.

I think many people here continue to forget the fact that draft prospects are not guaranteed.  They could be good, they could be rubbish, they could be average, they could be just OK.  If you pull a draft pick and it ends up as good as Wallace or Cousins, then you have hit the jackpot.

Cousins is 25 years old and is arguably the most dominant bit man in the NBA for the past three seasons.  If you want to roll your dice on a draft pick then by all means go ahead, I'm taking the proven superstar, thanks!

[greg683x]

i know we have many that would like to take a shot at Cousins. And I have to admit, he's a great talent.
I will say his, the Kings are gonna want "everything" for him. We're talking about the Brooklyn pick... plus, plus, plus.

If we get Cousins, and he doesn't fit in, or isn't happy, or acts like the same player he presently does in Sacramento, and he then skips in free agency. It will be the biggest mistake in the history of the Celtic franchise. It will set this team back years and years. It will make the Len Bias catastrophe look like a blessing.

I think you drastically underestimate how big of an impact the death of Len Bias had on this franchise. 

[rondohondo]

I think cousins is more sheed then kg as far as personality. The talent is great but the immaturity and volatility is disconcerting. Cussing out your coach in from of the whole team is absolutely childish.

As far as the pick. It depends. I it's number one overall I might just go with Ben Simmons. If it's later then I still would roll the dice on cousins but I think it's a bigger risk then ppl think. There legitimately might be a mental issue with DMC that doesn't allow him to control his emotions.

You mean the Rasheed that was arguably the best player on a championship Pistons squad?

Also Rasheed had nowhere near Cousin's talent level.  Rasheed was good, but Cousins is all-time-great good.

So career avg's of 18 ppg, 10 rpg , 46% FG'S(For a big man is not great) , 73% FT's  is an all-time great player ?

Add to that his childish behavior , lack of winning and giving up on plays because he is pouting .

Those look more like Al Jefferson numbers to me , he just puts them up in a different way .

[Roy H.]

I dont know much about Karl, other than he coached the Sonics to the Finals.  Could someone give me a run down on what hes done in the past to earn a bad reputation? 

He's been referred to as a "snake" by Carmelo Anthony, Ty Lawson, J.R. Smith, and Andre Iguodala.  That's backed up by his actions in Sacramento:  he immediately isolated his best player, tried to trade him without the front office's permission, and then attempted to organize a mutiny within his own locker room.

[crimson_stallion]

I think cousins is more sheed then kg as far as personality. The talent is great but the immaturity and volatility is disconcerting. Cussing out your coach in from of the whole team is absolutely childish.

As far as the pick. It depends. I it's number one overall I might just go with Ben Simmons. If it's later then I still would roll the dice on cousins but I think it's a bigger risk then ppl think. There legitimately might be a mental issue with DMC that doesn't allow him to control his emotions.

You mean the Rasheed that was arguably the best player on a championship Pistons squad?

Also Rasheed had nowhere near Cousin's talent level.  Rasheed was good, but Cousins is all-time-great good.

So career avg's of 18 ppg, 10 rpg , 46% FG'S(For a big man is bad) , 73% FT's  is an all-time great player ?

Add to that his childish behavior , lack of winning and giving up on plays because he is pouting .

Those look more like Al Jefferson numbers to me , he just puts them up in a different way .

Now you're just being silly.

Please observe Demarcus Cousins' Per-36 stats for the past five seasons:

2011/12 (age 21): 21.4 points, 13 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 1.7 steals, 1.4 blocks
2012/13 (age 22): 20.1 points, 11.7 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 1.7 steals, 0.9 blocks
2013/14 (age 23): 25 points, 13 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 1.7 steals, 1.4 blocks
2014/15 (age 24): 25.4 points, 13.4 rebounds, 3.8 assists, 1.6 steals, 1.8 blocks
2015/16 (age 25): 28.5 points, 14.7 rebounds, 3.3 assists, 1.0 steals, 1.3 blocks

Please, go b ack over the past 20 years and look up the absolute greatest players who have played in that stretch, then come back and find me a list of bigs who put up stats that were clearly better than what Cousins had put up at a given age.

Let me help you - you won't.  Because such a player does not exist.  I know, because I tried.  I looked up Hakeem, Robinson, Duncan. Garnett, Shaq, Gasol, Ewing, Malone, Barkely, Mourning - none of them had stats that were clearly better than Cousins at the same age.  One or two of those guys had stats that you could argue were on par, but none better.

Please do not be naive to the fact that Cousins has put up the stats he has so far while playing only 30-32 minutes per game, while most of those all time greats back in their day had stats that looked especially great because they were playing 35-40 minutes a game.

The guys in those days also started playing much later, so while Cousins is putting up 24/13/3 at the age of 24, most of the historical stars were only in their rookie or sophomore years by that age and were not putting up stats nearly that good.

So again, look at the stats that Cousins has put up in the past 3-4 seasons compared to some of the absolute greatest big men who have ever played the game, and you will see that his numbers are right up there with anybody from the past 20-25 years.


P.s.

For their career:

Olajuwon's averages are  22 / 11 / 2 / 2.5 / 1.7 in 35 minutes per game
Robinson's averages are 21.1 / 10.6 / 2.5 / 1.4 / 3.0 in 35 minutes per game
Ewing's averages are 21.0  9.8 / 1.9 / 1.0 / 2.4 in 34 minutes per game
Duncan's averages are 19.5 / 11 / 3.1 / 0.7 / 2.2 in 34 minutes per game
Shaq's average are 23.7 / 10.9 / 2.5 / 0.6 / 2.3 in 35 minutes per game
Barkley's averages are 22.1 / 11.7 / 3.9 / 1.5 / 0.8 in 36 minutes per game
Garnett's averages are 18.2 / 10.2 / 3.8 / 1.3 / 1.4 in 35 minutes per game
Malone's averages are 25.0 / 10.1 / 3.6 / 1.4 / 0.8 in 37 minutes per game
Mourning's averages are 17.1 / 8.5 / 1.1 / 0.5 / 2.8 in 31 minutes per game

Cousins Averages are 18.9 / 10.7 / 2.6 / 1.4 / 1.1 in 31 minutes per game

Please explain to me how those career numbers are not right up there with the greatest bigs of the past 20 years, despite the fact that he is still a good 3 or 4 years away from reaching his prime?

The only guys on that list who are significantly above Cousins stats are maybe Malone and Shaq, and even their stats become merely on par once you adjust for minutes played.

Cousins is a beast.  You might not like him as a person, but he has the type of big man talent that come across once or twice a decade if you're lucky.

[crimson_stallion]

I dont know much about Karl, other than he coached the Sonics to the Finals.  Could someone give me a run down on what hes done in the past to earn a bad reputation? 

He's been referred to as a "snake" by Carmelo Anthony, Ty Lawson, J.R. Smith, and Andre Iguodala.  That's backed up by his actions in Sacramento:  he immediately isolated his best player, tried to trade him without the front office's permission, and then attempted to organize a mutiny within his own locker room.

When did Carmelo Anthony, Ty Lawson, J.R smith and Andre Iguodala ever play NBA basketball on the same team as Cousins, may I ask?  Oh, never?  Thought so.

I asked if any of his teammates (guys who actually shared a locker room with him) have ever criticized him afterwards.  I don't recall any such cases.  If he was as bad a guy as people make him out to be, then every second player who leaves Sacramento should be complaining about him and dissing him - why aren't they?

Also, since when did Carmelo Anthony, Ty Lawson and JR Smith earn any credibility in this league for their personalities?  They are all guys who have been seen as head cases at some point or other in their careers. 

Iggy is a credible guy, but he's also never played with Cousins, so it's a moot point.

There are a million guys around the NBA who hate Kevin Garnett too, but aside from Wally Sczerbiak every teammate seams to love him.  From what I've seen, it seems to be the same deal with Cousins.

If Cousins is such a horrible cancer, then:
1) Why has he not been traded or allowed to walk in FA?
2) Why has he not acted like a diva and tried to request a trade?

No player in the NBA has had to deal with a more cancerous organisation than he has, yet he's stayed put and for the most part stayed quiet.  That's more than I can say for most guys out there with his level of talent.  Even Pierce and Kobe tried to force trades at some point in their careers.