Author Topic: Would you trade the 16 and 28 for Aaron Gordon?  (Read 19995 times)

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Re: Would you trade the 16 and 28 for Aaron Gordon?
« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2015, 05:05:53 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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Orlando obviously isn't doing that.  The premise of this thread is absurd.  Gordon was the youngest guy in the draft. Anyone saying he "didn't fit in" is probably just looking at stats and making assumptions.   This is like another team saying, "would you trade two second rounders for James Young?"

Once again I feel folks are overestimating the value of a mid 1st.  Lower them expectations.

And yes, Boston would obviously trade those two picks for Gordon. They'd obviously do it for wiggins, Jabari, noel, exum, embiid or randle as well.  None of those trades seem plausible.  You could possibly talk me into the plausibility of trading those two picks for Noah vonleh or nick stauskas... But that speaks more to my lack of respect for the Kings and Hornets management.

Welcome to the mind of LarBrd33, a peculiar place where Smart gets underrated for being a Celtic, but Gordon gets overrated for NOT being one.
Eddie... there's no way I'd trade Smart for #16 and #28.  I rate him properly.  I've repeatedly said he's our best asset.


You're about as likely to see Orlando trade Gordon for #16 and #28 as you are to see Boston trade Smart to Houston for #18 and #32

Next time someone makes one of these silly threads, they should imagine how furious they'd be if Boston dumped Marcus Smart for those two Houston picks (#18 and #32).
Would you trade Gordon for the 16th pick and Brooklyn's pick next year? Or something similar to that. I agree the 16 and 28 is unreasonable, but the idea that Orlando would trade Gordon because they are committing big money to Harris and AG doesn't really fit with their current personnel isn't.
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Re: Would you trade the 16 and 28 for Aaron Gordon?
« Reply #46 on: May 11, 2015, 05:22:02 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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The Aaron Gordon fascination continues.....  :P

For that price, though?  Sure thing.  However, never in a million years would ORL sell that low on a top 5 pick only one season into his career.

You sure about that??

Like i stated what is the reason for them to clog their forward spots?

Also have Harkless, Nicholson. And no teams are trading anything really for these guys

Magic are not a FA destination either.  They could use more backcourt help.

They might or might not bite . but if they say yes, that would be a good thing for the Celts. Plus danny can get some reasonable players with 33/45

Re: Would you trade the 16 and 28 for Aaron Gordon?
« Reply #47 on: May 11, 2015, 05:27:41 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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The magic are not giving up on Gordon this early,

If they still hold the 5th pick after the draft my guess is they draft Porzingis. They signed Frye last season and this shows they value the stretch 4. Gordon and Prozingis could potentially have a Marion/Dirk type roles. Where the PF is more on the perimeter and the SF plays inside.

It will be interesting to see how bad they really want to keep Harris or if they move the still very young Mo Harkless.
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Re: Would you trade the 16 and 28 for Aaron Gordon?
« Reply #48 on: May 11, 2015, 05:54:32 PM »

Offline coco

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My god no...

I'm sure he's a nice fellow and all, but as a basketball player I just don't like this guy, and I really feel he has draft bust written all over him - Darius Miles 2.0 I think. 

To me, he's the perfect example of a guy who is all athleticism with so little skill to go with it.  During the draft everybody was going on about his versatility, his PG skills, his potential, etc.  I watched a lot of this guy, and I have no idea where people get that from.

He looks awkward when he's handling the ball, his passing are below par (0.8 assists per turnover), he doesn't have offensive range (27% 3PT) and has historically shown poor shooting form (<50% FT in college). 

To make matters worse, his defense (the one area where he was supposed to be a revelation) has sucked.  His 0.9 steals and 1 block per 36 minutes are nothing to write home about, nor has his Defensive Real Plus-Minus (-0.48) which is good for 67th among Power Forwards and 248th overall.  About 20 ranks worse than David Lee.

You can't even use the rookie excuse, because Marcus Smart's DRPM (+1.05) ranks him 6th at his position and 103rd among NBA players...and out of college Gordon was regarded as being just as good (if not better) defensively.

At this stage it seems like Gordon's only impressive skill/talent is his ability to jump high and dunk a lot.

Seems like a nice enough kid, but I'll pass.
Physically, his quickness/speed is IMHO vastly overrated, he's not especially long for his size (about average), he's too skinny for PF, and the list goes on.

Ultimately his only great strengths seem to be his vertical leaping ability and his perimeter defense, which is not a lot.

Again he seems like a nice enough kid, but no interest in this guy. At all.

My sentiments exactly.

Not sure he has shown enough yet....

Re: Would you trade the 16 and 28 for Aaron Gordon?
« Reply #49 on: May 11, 2015, 05:59:42 PM »

Offline colincb

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The Magic don't have a clue how Gordon's going to turn out after one season, but they know they have a problem with offense and he's part of the problem. So is Payton, but he's got an upside similar to Rondo at his peak (He could surpass Rondo and fail to surpass Rondo - is that CYA disclaimer enough?). Oladipo is another below average shooter. I don't see how you can play all 3 of them and prosper as they amply demonstrated this year.

Gordon's not versatile around the rim - he's a put back dunker and transition scorer. He had no game around the basket coming in to the NBA or now. On defense, he's a tweener. and while pegged as a future DPOY here by some, he was 201st in defensive +/-.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2015_advanced.html

I think the 16+28 pick combo is fair value for a guy who's a bad fit on ORL, hasn't proved anything as a rookie other than confirming that he's a bad shooter, and went too high at #4.  Would I want him on the Cs? No. We need offense and a rim protector. He's neither and he's fairly priced at 16 + 28 and not some fabulous bargain. He can be decent somewhere else where he'd fit better.

Just for the record is the SBNation ORL homer assessment.

Quote
And then there's Aaron Gordon, who, through no fault of his own, had a quiet rookie season. Owing to injury, the fourth overall pick in the 2014 NBA Draft made only 47 appearances, offering only fleeting glimpses into his potential.

We know he can defend, at least. Though by no means a perfect defender, Gordon's size, frame, athleticism, and willingness to engage on that end make him a plus even at age 19. I'm not certain he'll ever be able to defend speedier small forwards on a full-time basis, but he can cover certain threes for a handful of possessions each game, making him valuable in isolation or switching situations.

As with seemingly every other youngster on Orlando's roster, however, the real question with Gordon is his shooting and scoring. He's not a threat as a shooter off the catch, so stashing him in the corner as a spacer doesn't quite make sense. His iffy midrange shot and work-in-progress handles mean he's not yet equipped to handle hard closeouts. At this (admittedly early) juncture it's hard to tell precisely what role Gordon will play in an NBA offense. And while I understand the inclination to play him as a sort free safety defensively, I do think more clearly defining his offensive position would help certain of his skills develop more quickly.

I'd prefer to see Gordon as a power forward, hanging around the elbows as a facilitator and screener. But I can also see, if I squint hard enough, the Magic going an entirely different direction and having him play a perimeter-based, jack-of-all-trades role not unlike Andre Iguodala.

Given his age, skill set, and how infrequently he played as a rookie, it's really tough to assess Gordon. But it's fun to think of the possibilities.

Very generous description of his mid-range shot as iffy. Shot 18% from 10 feet out to the 3 point range.

http://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2015/5/6/8557723/victor-oladipo-nba-stats-2015-orlando-magic-aaron-gordon-maurice-harkless

Re: Would you trade the 16 and 28 for Aaron Gordon?
« Reply #50 on: May 11, 2015, 06:01:27 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Hum?

Maybe

Re: Would you trade the 16 and 28 for Aaron Gordon?
« Reply #51 on: May 11, 2015, 06:02:23 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Secondly, there's absolutely no way to judge how good this draft was after just one year.


You'd think people would know by now not to judge too quickly.

Just look at the 2013 draft, which was meant to be historically terrible.

So many players who started off poorly showed this season they could become really quality players.  McLemore, KCP, Len, Noel, Porter, Muhammad, McCollum, etc.

. . . Schroder
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Would you trade the 16 and 28 for Aaron Gordon?
« Reply #52 on: May 11, 2015, 06:05:58 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Orlando obviously isn't doing that.  The premise of this thread is absurd.  Gordon was the youngest guy in the draft. Anyone saying he "didn't fit in" is probably just looking at stats and making assumptions.   This is like another team saying, "would you trade two second rounders for James Young?"

Once again I feel folks are overestimating the value of a mid 1st.  Lower them expectations.

And yes, Boston would obviously trade those two picks for Gordon. They'd obviously do it for wiggins, Jabari, noel, exum, embiid or randle as well.  None of those trades seem plausible.  You could possibly talk me into the plausibility of trading those two picks for Noah vonleh or nick stauskas... But that speaks more to my lack of respect for the Kings and Hornets management.

Welcome to the mind of LarBrd33, a peculiar place where Smart gets underrated for being a Celtic, but Gordon gets overrated for NOT being one.
Eddie... there's no way I'd trade Smart for #16 and #28.  I rate him properly.  I've repeatedly said he's our best asset.


You're about as likely to see Orlando trade Gordon for #16 and #28 as you are to see Boston trade Smart to Houston for #18 and #32

Next time someone makes one of these silly threads, they should imagine how furious they'd be if Boston dumped Marcus Smart for those two Houston picks (#18 and #32).

That's exactly the problem though. You consider Smart and Gordon on equal ground as far as prospects go, despite Gordon being a below average player last season.

You may have said Smart is our best asset, but that's a backhanded compliment since you've repeatedly criticized our overall assets and also compared Smart's ceiling to that of defensive role player.

I don't think they'll move Gordon..yet. However, when he sucks again next season and doesn't fit with their roster makeup they should be looking to deal him during mid-season. The same thing happened recently to Thomas Robinson, another undersized PF, with no perimeter game, who was drafted very high (#5 overall).

Re: Would you trade the 16 and 28 for Aaron Gordon?
« Reply #53 on: May 11, 2015, 06:10:11 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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The Aaron Gordon fascination continues.....  :P

For that price, though?  Sure thing.  However, never in a million years would ORL sell that low on a top 5 pick only one season into his career.

You sure about that??

Like i stated what is the reason for them to clog their forward spots?

Also have Harkless, Nicholson. And no teams are trading anything really for these guys

Magic are not a FA destination either.  They could use more backcourt help.

They might or might not bite . but if they say yes, that would be a good thing for the Celts. Plus danny can get some reasonable players with 33/45

Yes, I'm sure about that.  100%


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Re: Would you trade the 16 and 28 for Aaron Gordon?
« Reply #54 on: May 11, 2015, 06:35:03 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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The Aaron Gordon fascination continues.....  :P

For that price, though?  Sure thing.  However, never in a million years would ORL sell that low on a top 5 pick only one season into his career.

You sure about that??

Like i stated what is the reason for them to clog their forward spots?

Also have Harkless, Nicholson. And no teams are trading anything really for these guys

Magic are not a FA destination either.  They could use more backcourt help.

They might or might not bite . but if they say yes, that would be a good thing for the Celts. Plus danny can get some reasonable players with 33/45

Yes, I'm sure about that.  100%

What about the possible clog?

Re: Would you trade the 16 and 28 for Aaron Gordon?
« Reply #55 on: May 11, 2015, 06:43:20 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I'd obviously trade the 16 and 28 for Gordon - that's just great value. I would probably throw in James Young, as well.

But I don't think Gordon has star potential. His lack of scoring (and overall unassertiveness on that end of the floor) will always limit his potential. I suppose his ultimate peak as a player would be a guy like Shawn Marion, but that would require major work on his shot.

I compare Gordon to a guy like MKG - they were both drafted too high, but both were NBA ready defenders (even though the stats don't back this up with Gordon, I am fairly confident he will be very good in this area). It was kind-of obvious neither was going to be a go-to guy on a good team, but the floor was reasonably high for both of them.

Re: Would you trade the 16 and 28 for Aaron Gordon?
« Reply #56 on: May 11, 2015, 06:58:42 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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The Aaron Gordon fascination continues.....  :P

For that price, though?  Sure thing.  However, never in a million years would ORL sell that low on a top 5 pick only one season into his career.

You sure about that??

Like i stated what is the reason for them to clog their forward spots?

Also have Harkless, Nicholson. And no teams are trading anything really for these guys

Magic are not a FA destination either.  They could use more backcourt help.

They might or might not bite . but if they say yes, that would be a good thing for the Celts. Plus danny can get some reasonable players with 33/45

Yes, I'm sure about that.  100%

What about the possible clog?
You are overrating that clog.

They have Payton and Oladipo at the guard, then they have Harris and Gordan at the forward positions and Vucevic at the Center position. Drafting where they are they will probably pick up a 3-5 meaning they will have 4 guys (2 of them rookies) for 3 positions.

Thats not quite a roster jam. Especially when Gordon is a bit of a project.

With young guys there are still penty of minutes for the 4 of them. I think that the jam does make Gordon attainable but they arent looking to dump him unless they can get something really nice in return.

James Young, Booker, 28 isnt as far off as some people are making it out to be but I still dont think it gets it done

Re: Would you trade the 16 and 28 for Aaron Gordon?
« Reply #57 on: May 11, 2015, 07:02:34 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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The Aaron Gordon fascination continues.....  :P

For that price, though?  Sure thing.  However, never in a million years would ORL sell that low on a top 5 pick only one season into his career.

You sure about that??

Like i stated what is the reason for them to clog their forward spots?

Also have Harkless, Nicholson. And no teams are trading anything really for these guys

Magic are not a FA destination either.  They could use more backcourt help.

They might or might not bite . but if they say yes, that would be a good thing for the Celts. Plus danny can get some reasonable players with 33/45

Yes, I'm sure about that.  100%

What about the possible clog?
You are overrating that clog.

They have Payton and Oladipo at the guard, then they have Harris and Gordan at the forward positions and Vucevic at the Center position. Drafting where they are they will probably pick up a 3-5 meaning they will have 4 guys (2 of them rookies) for 3 positions.

Thats not quite a roster jam. Especially when Gordon is a bit of a project.

With young guys there are still penty of minutes for the 4 of them. I think that the jam does make Gordon attainable but they arent looking to dump him unless they can get something really nice in return.

James Young, Booker, 28 isnt as far off as some people are making it out to be but I still dont think it gets it done

Sure just don't list Harkless, Nicholson and Frye like they don't matter

The accurate list is

F - Harris, Gordon, Harkless, Nicholson , Frye, plus draft pick (Winslow, Porzingis, Johnson)

Goodluck trying to divide the mins between all of these guys

Re: Would you trade the 16 and 28 for Aaron Gordon?
« Reply #58 on: May 11, 2015, 07:08:35 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Orlando obviously isn't doing that.  The premise of this thread is absurd.  Gordon was the youngest guy in the draft. Anyone saying he "didn't fit in" is probably just looking at stats and making assumptions.   This is like another team saying, "would you trade two second rounders for James Young?"

Once again I feel folks are overestimating the value of a mid 1st.  Lower them expectations.

And yes, Boston would obviously trade those two picks for Gordon. They'd obviously do it for wiggins, Jabari, noel, exum, embiid or randle as well.  None of those trades seem plausible.  You could possibly talk me into the plausibility of trading those two picks for Noah vonleh or nick stauskas... But that speaks more to my lack of respect for the Kings and Hornets management.

Welcome to the mind of LarBrd33, a peculiar place where Smart gets underrated for being a Celtic, but Gordon gets overrated for NOT being one.
Eddie... there's no way I'd trade Smart for #16 and #28.  I rate him properly.  I've repeatedly said he's our best asset.


You're about as likely to see Orlando trade Gordon for #16 and #28 as you are to see Boston trade Smart to Houston for #18 and #32

Next time someone makes one of these silly threads, they should imagine how furious they'd be if Boston dumped Marcus Smart for those two Houston picks (#18 and #32).

That's exactly the problem though. You consider Smart and Gordon on equal ground as far as prospects go, despite Gordon being a below average player last season.

You may have said Smart is our best asset, but that's a backhanded compliment since you've repeatedly criticized our overall assets and also compared Smart's ceiling to that of defensive role player.

I don't think they'll move Gordon..yet. However, when he sucks again next season and doesn't fit with their roster makeup they should be looking to deal him during mid-season. The same thing happened recently to Thomas Robinson, another undersized PF, with no perimeter game, who was drafted very high (#5 overall).
Gordon was drafted as a raw project.  He was drafted for his potential.  Same with Dante Exum.  I don't think anyone expected those guys to light it up in year 1.

On the flip side, Marcus Smart was hailed as perhaps the 2nd most NBA-prospect in the draft.  So yes, I think it's perfectly fine to compare their trade values.  And we both know i'm not the only person who pegs Smart's ceiling as a solid defensive role player.  National writers have said the same thing.

But Smart is still a good young player with some trade value.  I've said it twice now, but he's a B- asset in a sea of C's and D's.  There would be widespread outrage (me included) if we dumped him for Houston's #18 and #32 picks.   I want people to understand that when they come up with these silly threads suggesting #16 for #28 for Gordon, it's on the same level of Boston trading Smart trading Smart to Houston for their crappy picks.   If that sounds unappealing to you... then imagine how Orlando fans would feel if they gave up their 19 year old project (who they took #4) just 47 games into his basketball career.  C'mon.  Let's get real here.  I don't buy the idea that Orlando looked at those 47 games and decided "BUST!!! BUST!!! PANIC!!!... QUICK, DUMP HIM FOR SOME CRAPPY #16 PICK!!" ...  That's not happening.

« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 07:16:51 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Would you trade the 16 and 28 for Aaron Gordon?
« Reply #59 on: May 11, 2015, 07:14:36 PM »

Offline colincb

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The Aaron Gordon fascination continues.....  :P

For that price, though?  Sure thing.  However, never in a million years would ORL sell that low on a top 5 pick only one season into his career.


You sure about that??

Like i stated what is the reason for them to clog their forward spots?

Also have Harkless, Nicholson. And no teams are trading anything really for these guys

Magic are not a FA destination either.  They could use more backcourt help.

They might or might not bite . but if they say yes, that would be a good thing for the Celts. Plus danny can get some reasonable players with 33/45

Yes, I'm sure about that.  100%

What about the possible clog?
You are overrating that clog.

They have Payton and Oladipo at the guard, then they have Harris and Gordan at the forward positions and Vucevic at the Center position. Drafting where they are they will probably pick up a 3-5 meaning they will have 4 guys (2 of them rookies) for 3 positions.

Thats not quite a roster jam. Especially when Gordon is a bit of a project.

With young guys there are still penty of minutes for the 4 of them. I think that the jam does make Gordon attainable but they arent looking to dump him unless they can get something really nice in return.

James Young, Booker, 28 isnt as far off as some people are making it out to be but I still dont think it gets it done

Sure just don't list Harkless, Nicholson and Frye like they don't matter

The accurate list is

F - Harris, Gordon, Harkless, Nicholson , Frye, plus draft pick (Winslow, Porzingis, Johnson)

Goodluck trying to divide the mins between all of these guys

Harkless had his minutes go from 1,950 to 674 last year. Nicholson from 1,174 to 492. Think they're not long for ORL.