Would you trade the 16 and 28 for Aaron Gordon?

[Who]

Yes

Yes would the magic bite or yes we should do it.

I still don't think the orlando magic are going to move a top 5 pick because he might have to come off the bench. There's still plenty of minutes to go around in Orlando for whoever they draft along with Harris and Gordon. If gordan and this years pick start playin at levels that demand 30+unites a night then you trade one. No need to do it at this point.

Yes, I think Boston should do that trade for Aaron Gordon.

I think there is a chance Orlando moves Gordon. Or S&T's Tobias. I don't really know what they're going to do with the pick, trading it makes some sense too.

I think that Orlando will probably be conservative though. They'll go BPA whomever they think that is (the Euro though makes a lot of sense, both in terms of filling a need and potentially being the BPA). They'll match the offer on Harris, and they'll try to figure out what to do with what they have.

Its not like they couldn't move anyone of their core. But I think they have been very particular about who they drafted or acquired, they're a team that puts a premium on culture, and part of a winning culture is roster consistency.

Agreed -- Orlando will take their time with it and see how each guy develops. Then make a decision further down the road.

[Ilikesports17]

This is an amazing question.  Aaron Gordon was the fourth pick in what was supposed to be the best draft since the one that saw Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, Carmelo and Chris Bosh enter the league.

Less than a year after he was drafted, still only nineteen years old, you actually think the Magic would give up on him for a 16th and a 28th pick?

To me the whole concept is slightly crazy.  It's like every kid in the draft, prior to playing a minute in the NBA is a potential superstar, then as soon as they aren't stars immediately in the big leagues, it's time to move on.

We all know it takes kids time to develop into pros.  Once they become pros, though, that patience gets tossed out right out the door.  Now it's "show me now!!"

Lets be honest , magic reached for Gordon at 4. I was reading they were nearly locked to draft Randle until they found out about his foot problem

Magic also were interested in Exum to pair with victorO but decided to grab Payton instead.

The Magic are still a mess and need to balance their lineup by adding more backcourt depth. But cant bypass on winslow, wcs, porzingis with their 1st pick

I dont think they take 16 and 28 but maybe add james young and who knows.  They could use more shooters in their lineup

If Say booker is available at 16 an Orlando doesn't see him in their future plans and they draft Stanley Johnson then maybe they could be talked into young, booker, 28 for Gordon as it could solve their shooting woes in one fell swoop.

But that's reliant on then making the decision to move on from a 19 year old freak athlete who they spent a top 5 pick on just 1 year ago

I don't see it happening.

And fwiw I don't love Gordon either. Id do the trade as a buy low thing with no plans if necessarily being with us for the long term. In hopes that he comes to boston shows that crazy athletic ability and we can flip him again for better than we gave up.

[konkmv]

Harkless gordon for turner olynyc clippers pick minessotas next year pick and a second rounder...

[Smartacus]

This is an amazing question.  Aaron Gordon was the fourth pick in what was supposed to be the best draft since the one that saw Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, Carmelo and Chris Bosh enter the league.

Less than a year after he was drafted, still only nineteen years old, you actually think the Magic would give up on him for a 16th and a 28th pick?

To me the whole concept is slightly crazy.  It's like every kid in the draft, prior to playing a minute in the NBA is a potential superstar, then as soon as they aren't stars immediately in the big leagues, it's time to move on.

We all know it takes kids time to develop into pros.  Once they become pros, though, that patience gets tossed out right out the door.  Now it's "show me now!!"

Lets be honest , magic reached for Gordon at 4. I was reading they were nearly locked to draft Randle until they found out about his foot problem

Magic also were interested in Exum to pair with victorO but decided to grab Payton instead.

The Magic are still a mess and need to balance their lineup by adding more backcourt depth. But cant bypass on winslow, wcs, porzingis with their 1st pick

I dont think they take 16 and 28 but maybe add james young and who knows.  They could use more shooters in their lineup

Gordon at 4 definitely surprised me. Thought they would go for Exum or Smart.

Your right it might not be best to view Gordon as the number 4 pick but instead look at him as 1 of 2 top ten picks. If they only had one selection they probably wouldn't have taken Gordon, but the cant miss factor of Payton allowed them to reach for Gordon.

[wahz]

My god no...

I'm sure he's a nice fellow and all, but as a basketball player I just don't like this guy, and I really feel he has draft bust written all over him - Darius Miles 2.0 I think. 

To me, he's the perfect example of a guy who is all athleticism with so little skill to go with it.  During the draft everybody was going on about his versatility, his PG skills, his potential, etc.  I watched a lot of this guy, and I have no idea where people get that from.

He looks awkward when he's handling the ball, his passing are below par (0.8 assists per turnover), he doesn't have offensive range (27% 3PT) and has historically shown poor shooting form (<50% FT in college). 

To make matters worse, his defense (the one area where he was supposed to be a revelation) has sucked.  His 0.9 steals and 1 block per 36 minutes are nothing to write home about, nor has his Defensive Real Plus-Minus (-0.48) which is good for 67th among Power Forwards and 248th overall.  About 20 ranks worse than David Lee.

You can't even use the rookie excuse, because Marcus Smart's DRPM (+1.05) ranks him 6th at his position and 103rd among NBA players...and out of college Gordon was regarded as being just as good (if not better) defensively.

At this stage it seems like Gordon's only impressive skill/talent is his ability to jump high and dunk a lot.

Seems like a nice enough kid, but I'll pass.
Physically, his quickness/speed is IMHO vastly overrated, he's not especially long for his size (about average), he's too skinny for PF, and the list goes on.

Ultimately his only great strengths seem to be his vertical leaping ability and his perimeter defense, which is not a lot.

Again he seems like a nice enough kid, but no interest in this guy. At all.

He is probably more like Austin Rivers 2.0. Some of these kids need way more time to develop than they get now. And some need both time and a decent situation. Gordon should become a great defender on an excellent team, but we'll see if he gets the chance.

[crimson_stallion]

Aaron Gordon was the fourth pick in what was supposed to be the best draft since the one that saw Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, Carmelo and Chris Bosh enter the league.

But who actually said all that about the draft, because Danny Ainge predicted it was going to be one of the worst drafts in history, and he turned out being absolutely right.

I think it's safe to say that Gordon has (thus far) failed to live up to his draft position, being outplayed so far by a number of players who were chosen after him.

[LarBrd33]

Orlando obviously isn't doing that.  The premise of this thread is absurd.  Gordon was the youngest guy in the draft. Anyone saying he "didn't fit in" is probably just looking at stats and making assumptions.   This is like another team saying, "would you trade two second rounders for James Young?"

Once again I feel folks are overestimating the value of a mid 1st.  Lower them expectations.

And yes, Boston would obviously trade those two picks for Gordon. They'd obviously do it for wiggins, Jabari, noel, exum, embiid or randle as well.  None of those trades seem plausible.  You could possibly talk me into the plausibility of trading those two picks for Noah vonleh or nick stauskas... But that speaks more to my lack of respect for the Kings and Hornets management.

[crimson_stallion]

My god no...

I'm sure he's a nice fellow and all, but as a basketball player I just don't like this guy, and I really feel he has draft bust written all over him - Darius Miles 2.0 I think. 

To me, he's the perfect example of a guy who is all athleticism with so little skill to go with it.  During the draft everybody was going on about his versatility, his PG skills, his potential, etc.  I watched a lot of this guy, and I have no idea where people get that from.

He looks awkward when he's handling the ball, his passing are below par (0.8 assists per turnover), he doesn't have offensive range (27% 3PT) and has historically shown poor shooting form (<50% FT in college). 

To make matters worse, his defense (the one area where he was supposed to be a revelation) has sucked.  His 0.9 steals and 1 block per 36 minutes are nothing to write home about, nor has his Defensive Real Plus-Minus (-0.48) which is good for 67th among Power Forwards and 248th overall.  About 20 ranks worse than David Lee.

You can't even use the rookie excuse, because Marcus Smart's DRPM (+1.05) ranks him 6th at his position and 103rd among NBA players...and out of college Gordon was regarded as being just as good (if not better) defensively.

At this stage it seems like Gordon's only impressive skill/talent is his ability to jump high and dunk a lot.

Seems like a nice enough kid, but I'll pass.
Physically, his quickness/speed is IMHO vastly overrated, he's not especially long for his size (about average), he's too skinny for PF, and the list goes on.

Ultimately his only great strengths seem to be his vertical leaping ability and his perimeter defense, which is not a lot.

Again he seems like a nice enough kid, but no interest in this guy. At all.

He is probably more like Austin Rivers 2.0. Some of these kids need way more time to develop than they get now. And some need both time and a decent situation. Gordon should become a great defender on an excellent team, but we'll see if he gets the chance.

The difference is that Rivers seems like he has potential to contribute in multiple ways.  He has potential as a scorer, and he's a decent enough ball handler and passer that he could probably spend some time filling in at PG for some teams - as far as I'm aware he's just not much of a defender.  Also at 6'5" he's got pretty decent size for a SG. 

The problem with Gordon is that even if he did develop into an elite perimeter defender, what more can he offer?  If he's to earn himself a career as a starter on playoff teams (like Bowen did) then he'll need to, at the very least, develop a consistent three point shot.  Nothing in his history indicates he's capable of that.

Then even if he DOES become an elite defender AND a capable three point shooter...then you end up what - Bruce Bowen with hops?   That's not a phenomenal amount of upside.

Lanky athletic guys just don't tend to get that far in the NBA unless they have either superstar talent or swiss-army-knife versatility (Durant, KG, Pippen, Odom.  About the only guy I've seen carve out a successful career almost entirely from his defense/hustle has been Tony Allen.  Again he's a nice piece to have on a team, but not what I'd consider fantastic upside.   

Maybe one day I'll be proven wrong, but I'm going to make my prediction right now - Aaron Gordon is going to be a bust.

[crimson_stallion]

Orlando obviously isn't doing that.  The premise of this thread is absurd.  Gordon was the youngest guy in the draft. Anyone saying he "didn't fit in" is probably just looking at stats and making assumptions.   This is like another team saying, "would you trade two second rounders for James Young?"

Once again I feel folks are overestimating the value of a mid 1st.  Lower them expectations.

And yes, Boston would obviously trade those two picks for Gordon. They'd obviously do it for wiggins, Jabari, noel, exum, embiid or randle as well.  None of those trades seem plausible.  You could possibly talk me into the plausibility of trading those two picks for Noah vonleh or nick stauskas... But that speaks more to my lack of respect for the Kings and Hornets management.

Vonleh has much higher upside than Gordon.  He's a PF with excellent physical strength, elite wingspan, above average athleticism and elite rebounding ability - plus he's already shown he has a lot of potential with his ball handling, his jump shot, his post game and his shot blocking.  That's an extremely versatile range of skills and skilled big men are a hot commodity in this league - if he develops even 2/3 of that skill set he'll be a very good starter.

Randle has already shown he is an elite rebounder with great physical strength, and he's show he has the potential to be a very good post player.

Gordon has shown us no real skill/talent so far outside of his (admittedly impressive) leaping ability.  So far his scoring, passing, his ball handling and defense have all been below average.  His only skill that could even qualify as average has been his rebounding, and that assumes you're playing him at SF.

To put things simply, he's been Jeff Green without the scoring and without the defense.  Yikes.

Stauskas is not worth two firsts.  If he Stauskas turns out to be half of JJ Redick I'd be very surprised.

[Csfan1984]

Gordon is like Young they will need 2 years before we really start seeing their true potential. Can not trade either guy after only one year. Could also say the same about Exum.

[Vermont Green]

I was hoping the Celtics got Gordon in the draft because I liked him.  His rookie season was disappointing for sure.  I would be happy to trade  for him.  There is as much risk with him as any draft pick, I am just not sure what it would take.

I don't think Orlando would take 16+28 or another way to look at it is if Gordon was on the market, other teams would offer more than this.  Maybe 28 and a future Brooklyn pick would be what it would take.  I suspect a lot fewer like that trade but it is probably what it would take.  I think I would do it for a future Brooklyn but it is a tough call.

[Eddie20]

Gordon looks like a horrid fit in Stevens' pace and space system. His lack of shooting kills our offensive spacing and his contributions defensively weren't as advertised. Sure, he can have the highlight block or rebound with his great athleticism. However, when you closely you see a player that can't defend most 4's in the block and a player not laterally quick enough to cover a lot of 3's.

Gordon is a player that's going to demand a lot of patience. The scariest thing he showed little to no improvement during the year. In fact, numbers suggest that he actually showed slight regression from pre all-star (53% FG, 5.9 PPG, 3.2 RPG) to post all-star (37% FG, 4.5 PPG, 4.0 RPG).

He'll probably eventually be an undersized 4, but he needs to add a lot of bulk before that's possible.

Let's look at who might be available at 16 and 28. At 16, we'll be looking at guys like Dekker, Portis, Lyles, and Booker. At 28, Wood, Upshaw, Alexander, and Martin. A few of those players (Dekker, Portis, Lyles, and Martin) appear to be more ready to contribute next season than Gordon.

Gordon's stock has fallen significantly since last year and despite a return that might seem marginal (16 and 28) I still wouldn't do it. I just don't see Gordon developing into anything remotely close to a top 5 pick. Right now, he looks like one of the biggest potential busts of the 2014 draft.

[Tr1boy]

Gordon looks like a horrid fit in Stevens' pace and space system. His lack of shooting kills our offensive spacing and his contributions defensively weren't as advertised. Sure, he can have the highlight block or rebound with his great athleticism. However, when you closely you see a player that can't defend most 4's in the block and a player not laterally quick enough to cover a lot of 3's.

Gordon is a player that's going to demand a lot of patience. The scariest thing he showed little to no improvement during the year. In fact, numbers suggest that he actually showed slight regression from pre all-star (53% FG, 5.9 PPG, 3.2 RPG) to post all-star (37% FG, 4.5 PPG, 4.0 RPG).

He'll probably eventually be an undersized 4, but he needs to add a lot of bulk before that's possible.

Let's look at who might be available at 16 and 28. At 16, we'll be looking at guys like Dekker, Portis, Lyles, and Booker. At 28, Wood, Upshaw, Alexander, and Martin. A few of those players (Dekker, Portis, Lyles, and Martin) appear to be more ready to contribute next season than Gordon.

Gordon's stock has fallen significantly since last year and despite a return that might seem marginal (16 and 28) I still wouldn't do it. I just don't see Gordon developing into anything remotely close to a top 5 pick. Right now, he looks like one of the biggest potential busts of the 2014 draft.

I hope the magic think like you

[Eddie20]

Orlando obviously isn't doing that.  The premise of this thread is absurd.  Gordon was the youngest guy in the draft. Anyone saying he "didn't fit in" is probably just looking at stats and making assumptions.   This is like another team saying, "would you trade two second rounders for James Young?"

Once again I feel folks are overestimating the value of a mid 1st.  Lower them expectations.

And yes, Boston would obviously trade those two picks for Gordon. They'd obviously do it for wiggins, Jabari, noel, exum, embiid or randle as well.  None of those trades seem plausible.  You could possibly talk me into the plausibility of trading those two picks for Noah vonleh or nick stauskas... But that speaks more to my lack of respect for the Kings and Hornets management.

Welcome to the mind of LarBrd33, a peculiar place where Smart gets underrated for being a Celtic, but Gordon gets overrated for NOT being one.

[mef730]

Aaron Gordon was the fourth pick in what was supposed to be the best draft since the one that saw Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, Carmelo and Chris Bosh enter the league.

But who actually said all that about the draft, because Danny Ainge predicted it was going to be one of the worst drafts in history, and he turned out being absolutely right.

I think it's safe to say that Gordon has (thus far) failed to live up to his draft position, being outplayed so far by a number of players who were chosen after him.

I'm going to give it some time before declaring it one of the worst drafts of all time.  It's only been a year and three of the top 10 players spent a year on the sidelines with injuries, while a couple of others missed a big chunk of the season.  Also, Danny could just as easily have been jawboning to move up in the draft.

Having said that, I was disappointed when we didn't get Gordon last year, but it has worked out pretty well for us so far.  Since he's better than the combination of 16 & 28, though, I'd make the trade.

Mike