Fans of Avery Bradley Thread

[TheFlex]

But they could play, I see no reason why Bradley can't function he may not be as good as them, but still pretty good.

Sure. Many SGs with Bradley's size have made a living as career-backup three-point specialists.

Lol, you are a terrific writer but your points often make little sense once you dig past the impressive vocabulary and sentence structure. All of the guys I've mentioned so far have been starters for multiple seasons in this league.

Funny you should say that, because you don't seem particularly interested in digging beyond the surface of anything.

To address your concerns from the previous post, I take everything from draftexpress.com's measurements database. Sites like Basketball Reference take their measurements from team media guides, in which generally anything goes. DE database contains actual official measurements that were made, recorded and published during the NBA Draft Combine.

You can find a lot of curious stuff there. Wade measured 6'4.75 in shoes. Hinrich measured 6'3.75. Ben Gordon was considerably smaller than listed at 6'2.25, which is why he got relegated to spot starter once Hinrich was no longer around to pick up bigger guards on defense.

Dragic didn't attend the combine and is listed at 6'4 in DraftExpress. No idea how accurate this is, but it is worth noting that in Europe player measurements are reported with no shoes on (which may explain the one-inch difference).

Bradley, for that matter, measured as 6'3.25. That's smaller than everyone on your list not named Ben Gordon, and about the same size as Monta Ellis. Except Ellis has PG skills and Bradley... well, let's just say he doesn't, and leave it at that.

Also, English is not my first language. Which in turn must mean a lot of people on the Internetz these day are semi-literate.

Ha! Feisty, I like it. TP.

All of what you said is accurate, but are you really arguing that Bradley can't be an effective SG because he's a half inch too short (as he is 6'3.25" and Hinrich, a player you deem not only tall enough to play SG but to offset Gordon's height disadvantage, is 6'3.75")? To my naked eye, Bradley appears to make up for that devastating half-inch difference with greater lateral quickness, speed and strength than Hinrich. Is there some absolute limit around 6'3.5" that you have to find yourself above to be an effective SG? Because your argument seems to center around the idea that height is the ultimate determinant of success for basketball players.

This debate has become really petty. I've made my point and there's nothing more that I can say to convince you to see it my way. I will listen if you have any more to say that may or may not persuade me to agree with you. It seems to me as if we won't see eye-to-eye on this one as your opinion of Bradley is so removed from my own (you see Bradley as a terrible defender who can't shoot, I see Bradley as someone who is suffering from inferior defensive surroundings and I have no idea how you can back up the idea that he's a bad shooter) that cherry-picked statistics and measurements won't do it for either one of us.

Anyways, that's pretty impressive that English isn't your first language. You seem to have a great handle on it from what I can tell.

[kozlodoev]

Yes, this seems to have gotten bogged down. I guess my point can be reduced to the observation there aren't many SGs who are as small as Bradley that are or were full starters in the NBA. Combo guards, yes, but Bradley isn't one.

[D.o.s.]

Also, English is not my first language. Which in turn must mean a lot of people on the Internetz these day are semi-literate.

This is like the nicest thing you've ever written Koz. 

[kozlodoev]

Also, English is not my first language. Which in turn must mean a lot of people on the Internetz these day are semi-literate.

This is like the nicest thing you've ever written Koz. 

It's a fleeting moment of weakness. I'll be my old self before the weekend rolls around 

[crimson_stallion]

I think the biggest problem with people here is that so many people on this forum seem to expect every player on the team to be an all-star, and if you aren't one then you're crap and should be traded.

Avery Bradley is a pretty efficient 15 PPG scorer, an excellent defender, and a solid rebounder.  In the NBA, that's a starting calibre player.

The biggest criticisms people seem to have for AB are:

1) He's not a good ball handler
2) He's not a good passer
3) He has poor shot selection
4) He's inconsistent
5) He's undersized

Lets address some of these starting with points 1 and 2...

Passing and Dribbling
There's no denying that AB is not an above average ball handler or passer...but the fact of the matter is, he doesn't really need to be.  He plays purely off the ball and rarely ever is the primary ball handler, so he doesn't have to have PG handles or passing ability.  He's also averaged only 1.9 turnovers per 36 minutes over his career, so it's not like he is constantly dribbling off his foot or passing the ball out of bounds...these things aren't a liability, they just aren't an asset.  If he could pass and dribble (in addition to his current rate of scoring, defending and rebounding) then he'd be pretty near All-Star consideration.  As it is, he's a starting calibre player.

On to point 3...

Shot Selection
For his career Avery Bradley has shot 44% from the field, 36% from three and 78% from the free throw line.  For a guard, they are really quite good numbers. 

Statistically, the majority of AB's offense (34%) has come from behind the three point line, where he's shot 32.4% so far this season.  Because a three counts as 1.5 two point attempts, that's the equivalent of him shooting 48.6% from two.  That's pretty efficient.

The second largest amount of his offense (29%) comes on long two's - between 16 feet and the three point line.  So far this season he is shooting a whopping 51.7% on those long two's which means for him, that's an even more efficient shot than the three pointer is right now.

The third highest number of his shots (26%) are coming from within 3 feet of the basket - i.e. layups and dunks. Obviously they are pretty efficient shots, and sure enough he's shooting 50% from that range - not fantastic relatively speaking, but efficient as a shot. 

The two worst shooting areas for Bradley (over his entire career) have been the close jumper (3-10 feet) and the midrange jumper (10-16 feet).  So far this season he has only attempted 6% of his shots from 3-10 feet, and only 5% of his shots from 10-16 feet.  Look at his career stats and his attempts from these ranges have consistently hovered around there.  He obviously acknowledges that this area is a weakness for him, and so he takes lets shots from there.

So to summarise, Avery Bradley has taken 86% of his field goal attempts this season either from three where his effective FG% is 48%, or on two point shots where his effective FG% is over 50%.

Where is the evidence of poor shot selection?

I can't see any evidence to indicate that AB is taking a large number of low percentage shots.


Inconsistency
This is probably the only criticism that I think is probably fair.  I must admit that Bradley has been pretty inconsistent from game to game, and he seems to be the type to have an 8 point game one night (with 1-5 threes) and then a 27 point game the next night (with 4-6 threes). 

That said, NBA players on the whole aren't as consistent as most people probably think - not unless you're talking about bonafide All-Stars / superstars like Kevin Durant, Lebron, Bosh, etc. 

Size
I don't think it's fair to bash Bradley on his size because

1) His long wingspan and outstanding athleticism largely make up for a lot of his lack of height
2) The general lack of size in the NBA these days as it is - there are a ton of SG's out there these days between 6'1" - 6'4" these days, and teams with small guards (e.g. Phoenix) don't really seem to suffer much for it.

Now you can argue that the other's mostly have PG skills, while Bradley does not.  True, but I personally think this is somewhat irrelevant because the fact is that much of the time Bradley is on the floor he's matched up against guys who are within 1" of his height.  The only time Bradley's lack of PG skills ever become a legit concern is if he's put in a situation where he is actually depended on to play the PG spot, which on this team (with Rondo, Smart, Pressey and Turner) is going to happen pretty much never.

[TheFlex]

I think the biggest problem with people here is that so many people on this forum seem to expect every player on the team to be an all-star, and if you aren't one then you're crap and should be traded.

Avery Bradley is a pretty efficient 15 PPG scorer, an excellent defender, and a solid rebounder.  In the NBA, that's a starting calibre player.

The biggest criticisms people seem to have for AB are:

1) He's not a good ball handler
2) He's not a good passer
3) He has poor shot selection
4) He's inconsistent
5) He's undersized

Lets address some of these starting with points 1 and 2...

Passing and Dribbling
There's no denying that AB is not an above average ball handler or passer...but the fact of the matter is, he doesn't really need to be.  He plays purely off the ball and rarely ever is the primary ball handler, so he doesn't have to have PG handles or passing ability.  He's also averaged only 1.9 turnovers per 36 minutes over his career, so it's not like he is constantly dribbling off his foot or passing the ball out of bounds...these things aren't a liability, they just aren't an asset.  If he could pass and dribble (in addition to his current rate of scoring, defending and rebounding) then he'd be pretty near All-Star consideration.  As it is, he's a starting calibre player.

On to point 3...

Shot Selection
For his career Avery Bradley has shot 44% from the field, 36% from three and 78% from the free throw line.  For a guard, they are really quite good numbers. 

Statistically, the majority of AB's offense (34%) has come from behind the three point line, where he's shot 32.4% so far this season.  Because a three counts as 1.5 two point attempts, that's the equivalent of him shooting 48.6% from two.  That's pretty efficient.

The second largest amount of his offense (29%) comes on long two's - between 16 feet and the three point line.  So far this season he is shooting a whopping 51.7% on those long two's which means for him, that's an even more efficient shot than the three pointer is right now.

The third highest number of his shots (26%) are coming from within 3 feet of the basket - i.e. layups and dunks. Obviously they are pretty efficient shots, and sure enough he's shooting 50% from that range - not fantastic relatively speaking, but efficient as a shot. 

The two worst shooting areas for Bradley (over his entire career) have been the close jumper (3-10 feet) and the midrange jumper (10-16 feet).  So far this season he has only attempted 6% of his shots from 3-10 feet, and only 5% of his shots from 10-16 feet.  Look at his career stats and his attempts from these ranges have consistently hovered around there.  He obviously acknowledges that this area is a weakness for him, and so he takes lets shots from there.

So to summarise, Avery Bradley has taken 86% of his field goal attempts this season either from three where his effective FG% is 48%, or on two point shots where his effective FG% is over 50%.

Where is the evidence of poor shot selection?

I can't see any evidence to indicate that AB is taking a large number of low percentage shots.


Inconsistency
This is probably the only criticism that I think is probably fair.  I must admit that Bradley has been pretty inconsistent from game to game, and he seems to be the type to have an 8 point game one night (with 1-5 threes) and then a 27 point game the next night (with 4-6 threes). 

That said, NBA players on the whole aren't as consistent as most people probably think - not unless you're talking about bonafide All-Stars / superstars like Kevin Durant, Lebron, Bosh, etc. 

Size
I don't think it's fair to bash Bradley on his size because

1) His long wingspan and outstanding athleticism largely make up for a lot of his lack of height
2) The general lack of size in the NBA these days as it is - there are a ton of SG's out there these days between 6'1" - 6'4" these days, and teams with small guards (e.g. Phoenix) don't really seem to suffer much for it.

Now you can argue that the other's mostly have PG skills, while Bradley does not.  True, but I personally think this is somewhat irrelevant because the fact is that much of the time Bradley is on the floor he's matched up against guys who are within 1" of his height.  The only time Bradley's lack of PG skills ever become a legit concern is if he's put in a situation where he is actually depended on to play the PG spot, which on this team (with Rondo, Smart, Pressey and Turner) is going to happen pretty much never.

TP, great stuff. Bradley is very under-appreciated around these parts. We're lucky to have him locked up for the next four years. I expect him to be an even better player than he is now by the end of his contract.

[kozlodoev]

To say that Avery Bradley is "not an above average dribbler or passer" is the understatement of the year. At this stage, he is so horrible in both departments that the team has to actively try to mitigate  his weaknesses. Has no-one noticed that every possession in which Bradley tries anything other than a one-step jumper or a simple lateral pass ends up with him dribbling the ball off his foot, a bad pass, or a missed layup.

Bradley has value when he spots in the corner for open threes or backdoor cuts (he has been and can be decent at both). But don't have him take 15 shots per game and, for the love of god, don't run plays with him at the top of the key.

I can't really blame folks who think that he doesn't have a skill set that is worth $8 million a season.

[crimson_stallion]

To say that Avery Bradley is "not an above average dribbler or passer" is the understatement of the year. At this stage, he is so horrible in both departments that the team has to actively try to mitigate  his weaknesses. Has no-one noticed that every possession in which Bradley tries anything other than a one-step jumper or a simple lateral pass ends up with him dribbling the ball off his foot, a bad pass, or a missed layup.

I would love to see some statistics to back this up, because from the games I've seen I haven't seen this at all.

I would imagine that if this was true, then Bradley would be averaging far more than the 2 turnovers per 36 that he's currently averaging...

Like yourself, people STILL judge Bradley on weaknesses he hasn't shown since his first two seasons in the league.  Yes, as a Rookie AB was a horrendous passer and ball handler.  He averaged something like 3.5 turnovers per 36. He bounced the ball off his foot or threw it out of bounds just about every time he touched the ball.

This season I think I've only seen him make one or two bass passes, and I don't think I've seen him bounce the ball off his foot once time.  He's not out there pulling off fancy euro-steps or crossing people over (and probably never will be) but I think he's settled down a lot and seems to have learned to make the simple play.  He rarely attempts fancy passes or fancy dribble moves, and when he does keep thing simple (which he usually does) he is pretty good at avoiding turning the ball over.

It's worth noting that Bradley's playing time and usage rate have both increase significantly since 2012-2013 and yet his turnover rate (already quite low) has actually decreased significantly as indicated below:

Turnover rate - Avery Bradley
2010-11: 18.1%
2011-12: 14.7%
2012-13:  12.6%
2013-14: 9.9%
2014-15: 10.3%

To put things in to perspective, here are the turnover rates for some of Boston's other perimeter players this season:

Evan Turner - 20.6%
Phil Pressey - 12.5% (big improvement from the 24.2% last year)
Rajon Rondo - 24.9%
Marcus Thornton - 4.9%
Marcus Smart - 13.4%
Jeff Green - 9%

So much for Avery Bradley being a turnover machine, huh? I guess he must just have hands made of wet soap!

[LooseCannon]

Bradley has value when he spots in the corner for open threes or backdoor cuts (he has been and can be decent at both). But don't have him take 15 shots per game and, for the love of god, don't run plays with him at the top of the key.

Last season, Bradley shot 36.8% on corner threes.  Since he shot 39.5% on all threes, the math says that he must have been making more than 39.5% of non-corner threes.

The stats say that Avery Bradley should be taking threes and that he should be taking threes from places other than the corners.  One of the key developments of last season was getting Bradley to be comfortable doing something other than corner threes and cuts to the basket.

Given the rest of the roster, Bradley should be taking a lot of shots.  Unlike some players, I think Bradley has the discipline to scale back his shot-taking when Ainge finds a star to add to the mix because he can just focus more on defense.

[TheFlex]

Rejoice AB fans...

When will people stop blaming losses on one player and realize our team stinks? I didn't realize AB was solely responsible for the double digit deficit that didn't see improvement until midway through the third.

[Rondo9]

I'm starting to think this is more of a coaching problem, rather than the individual players.....

[TheFlex]

I'm starting to think this is more of a coaching problem, rather than the individual players.....

Disagree, our roster is severely imbalanced. We're going through something similar what we're seeing in Denver, only we have more positional holes and a weaker talent base.

[Rondo9]

I'm starting to think this is more of a coaching problem, rather than the individual players.....

Disagree, our roster is severely imbalanced. We're going through something similar what we're seeing in Denver, only we have more positional holes and a weaker talent base.

I don't think so, considering last year they wern't a bad defensive, this year they're downright awful. The roster unbalance isn't that bad as it was from last year and on paper they should be a competent defensive team, but they're not.

[D.o.s.]

I maintain that our team is worse this year than it was this time last year. Lots of people on this blog don't agree.

[Rondo9]

I maintain that our team is worse this year than it was this time last year. Lots of people on this blog don't agree.

I still don't agree, but it's early.