Fans of Avery Bradley Thread

[LooseCannon]

Bradley on his current contract is better value than Iverson for the max.

[D.o.s.]

Bradley on his current contract is better value than Iverson for the max.

[Chris22]

I'm not sure if I respect the basketball opinion anyone who thinks that Bradley is inherently too short to be a starting SG.

He is too short to be a good shooting guard.

+1

[kozlodoev]

Undersized shooting guard compared to undersized shooting guard. I don't think anyone's really comparing The Answer to The Avery, just using AI as an example (albeit an extreme one) that size isn't the dealbreaker it's often asserted to be.

Everyone who thinks Iverson truly played SG in all phases of the game may want to check the height of his backcourt partners in Philly.

[Celtics4ever]

AI as an example (albeit an extreme one) that size isn't the dealbreaker it's often asserted to be.

Iverson was a career  43% shooting.  Do you think it is that low because maybe guys could get into his shot picture with their height?   He was quick but so short all a guy had to do was put up a hand and they could still affect his shot.   Definitely, a warrior but a volume scorer is a poor comparison for AB, he doesn't hoist the shots regardless of height.  Iverson is a rare bird and not the norm regardless of what you think of him.

[D.o.s.]

Undersized shooting guard compared to undersized shooting guard. I don't think anyone's really comparing The Answer to The Avery, just using AI as an example (albeit an extreme one) that size isn't the dealbreaker it's often asserted to be.

Everyone who thinks Iverson truly played SG in all phases of the game may want to check the height of his backcourt partners in Philly.

That's true, and the difference is largely academic anyway, since the best example of the 76ers (the 2001 team) largely eschewed "true" point guard play. That's a product of the times, though, when the 1vs5 method of scoring points was prevalent around the league.

[TheFlex]

I'm not sure if I respect the basketball opinion anyone who thinks that Bradley is inherently too short to be a starting SG.

He is too short to be a good shooting guard.

Correction, he is too short to be a Great shooting guard.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/iversal01.html

TP.

However AB, is nowhere near as big of a talent as AI was.

Obviously. If AB has Iverson's handles and passing acumen I don't know how many people here would be so excited about swapping him out.

On the other hand, I do think that the height thing ranges from a little overblown to a lot overblown, depending on how he does the night before.

Wow. Did this thread really go as far as comparing Avery Bradley to Allen freakin' Iverson?

Now I really have seen it all.

Haha, not the point at all. As others have said, I was merely challenging the idea that there is a height threshold/requirement for a 2-guard to be good/great.

Undersized shooting guard compared to undersized shooting guard. I don't think anyone's really comparing The Answer to The Avery, just using AI as an example (albeit an extreme one) that size isn't the dealbreaker it's often asserted to be.

Everyone who thinks Iverson truly played SG in all phases of the game may want to check the height of his backcourt partners in Philly.

Useless quibble, but I'll entertain it nonetheless.

Here's some others: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/ellismo01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gordobe01.html

Article on Dwyane Wade:

Part of the conundrum is that there are few close comparisons, few players of his height who have played a similar style.

"Yeah, there ain't," Wade said. "People always asked me who I modeled my game after. Obviously, (Michael) Jordan was the one from the standpoint of talent, but I never looked to see (anybody) who played like me, or I played like them. You can see some guys that come now, you can see their games, like Bradley Beal, you can see them and say he's got a Ray Allen type of game."

Beal, in his second season for Washington, can stroke it from the outside and is still developing other aspects of his repertoire.

"There was not really a guy when I came in, that they saw me, and said I play like him," Wade said. "Not close to the same height, etc. So, yeah. But I think that's the cool thing. In a sense, I will have my own space, as that 2-guard. As someone who is 6'3", 6'4" on a good day, and I've done what I was able to do. I think it will be my own space, in a sense."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1927932-dwyane-wade-now-32-still-staking-his-place-among-two-guards

And, of course, any one of Phoenix's three-headed PG monster plays SG frequently. All are 6'3" and under.

[kozlodoev]

Undersized shooting guard compared to undersized shooting guard. I don't think anyone's really comparing The Answer to The Avery, just using AI as an example (albeit an extreme one) that size isn't the dealbreaker it's often asserted to be.

Everyone who thinks Iverson truly played SG in all phases of the game may want to check the height of his backcourt partners in Philly.

That's true, and the difference is largely academic anyway, since the best example of the 76ers (the 2001 team) largely eschewed "true" point guard play. That's a product of the times, though, when the 1vs5 method of scoring points was prevalent around the league.

My point was chiefly to underline that regardless of lineup taxonomy, Iverson would always have the ball in his hands, be guarded by the smallest guy on the floor, and have 6'3 Eric Snow cover the bigger opposing guard on defense.

The difference isn't necessarily academic, since the poster suggested that someone with Iverson's size could operate as a conventional SG, which wasn't really the case.

[pearljammer10]

I'm not sure if I respect the basketball opinion anyone who thinks that Bradley is inherently too short to be a starting SG.

He is too short to be a good shooting guard.

Correction, he is too short to be a Great shooting guard.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/iversal01.html

TP.

However AB, is nowhere near as big of a talent as AI was.

Obviously. If AB has Iverson's handles and passing acumen I don't know how many people here would be so excited about swapping him out.

On the other hand, I do think that the height thing ranges from a little overblown to a lot overblown, depending on how he does the night before.

Wow. Did this thread really go as far as comparing Avery Bradley to Allen freakin' Iverson?

Now I really have seen it all.

Haha, not the point at all. As others have said, I was merely challenging the idea that there is a height threshold/requirement for a 2-guard to be good/great.

Undersized shooting guard compared to undersized shooting guard. I don't think anyone's really comparing The Answer to The Avery, just using AI as an example (albeit an extreme one) that size isn't the dealbreaker it's often asserted to be.

Everyone who thinks Iverson truly played SG in all phases of the game may want to check the height of his backcourt partners in Philly.

Useless quibble, but I'll entertain it nonetheless.

Here's some others: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/ellismo01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gordobe01.html

Article on Dwyane Wade:

Part of the conundrum is that there are few close comparisons, few players of his height who have played a similar style.

"Yeah, there ain't," Wade said. "People always asked me who I modeled my game after. Obviously, (Michael) Jordan was the one from the standpoint of talent, but I never looked to see (anybody) who played like me, or I played like them. You can see some guys that come now, you can see their games, like Bradley Beal, you can see them and say he's got a Ray Allen type of game."

Beal, in his second season for Washington, can stroke it from the outside and is still developing other aspects of his repertoire.

"There was not really a guy when I came in, that they saw me, and said I play like him," Wade said. "Not close to the same height, etc. So, yeah. But I think that's the cool thing. In a sense, I will have my own space, as that 2-guard. As someone who is 6'3", 6'4" on a good day, and I've done what I was able to do. I think it will be my own space, in a sense."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1927932-dwyane-wade-now-32-still-staking-his-place-among-two-guards

And, of course, any one of Phoenix's three-headed PG monster plays SG frequently. All are 6'3" and under.

Haha, phew...You had me worried.

[kozlodoev]

Haha, not the point at all. As others have said, I was merely challenging the idea that there is a height threshold/requirement for a 2-guard to be good/great.

Undersized shooting guard compared to undersized shooting guard. I don't think anyone's really comparing The Answer to The Avery, just using AI as an example (albeit an extreme one) that size isn't the dealbreaker it's often asserted to be.

Everyone who thinks Iverson truly played SG in all phases of the game may want to check the height of his backcourt partners in Philly.

Useless quibble, but I'll entertain it nonetheless.

Here's some others: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/ellismo01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gordobe01.html

Article on Dwyane Wade:

Part of the conundrum is that there are few close comparisons, few players of his height who have played a similar style.

"Yeah, there ain't," Wade said. "People always asked me who I modeled my game after. Obviously, (Michael) Jordan was the one from the standpoint of talent, but I never looked to see (anybody) who played like me, or I played like them. You can see some guys that come now, you can see their games, like Bradley Beal, you can see them and say he's got a Ray Allen type of game."

Beal, in his second season for Washington, can stroke it from the outside and is still developing other aspects of his repertoire.

"There was not really a guy when I came in, that they saw me, and said I play like him," Wade said. "Not close to the same height, etc. So, yeah. But I think that's the cool thing. In a sense, I will have my own space, as that 2-guard. As someone who is 6'3", 6'4" on a good day, and I've done what I was able to do. I think it will be my own space, in a sense."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1927932-dwyane-wade-now-32-still-staking-his-place-among-two-guards

And, of course, any one of Phoenix's three-headed PG monster plays SG frequently. All are 6'3" and under.

I'm not sure you're helping your point much. Monta Ellis is a legitimate combo guard who doesn't embarrass himself when he has to handle the ball. Dwyane Wade is almost 6'5. Ben Gordon is a bench player, who has only had success starting when he played with 6'4 Kirk Hinrich and 6'3 Derrick Rose in the starting lineup.

edit: Goran Dragic is also 6'4.

[Rondo9]

Haha, not the point at all. As others have said, I was merely challenging the idea that there is a height threshold/requirement for a 2-guard to be good/great.

Undersized shooting guard compared to undersized shooting guard. I don't think anyone's really comparing The Answer to The Avery, just using AI as an example (albeit an extreme one) that size isn't the dealbreaker it's often asserted to be.

Everyone who thinks Iverson truly played SG in all phases of the game may want to check the height of his backcourt partners in Philly.

Useless quibble, but I'll entertain it nonetheless.

Here's some others: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/ellismo01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gordobe01.html

Article on Dwyane Wade:

Part of the conundrum is that there are few close comparisons, few players of his height who have played a similar style.

"Yeah, there ain't," Wade said. "People always asked me who I modeled my game after. Obviously, (Michael) Jordan was the one from the standpoint of talent, but I never looked to see (anybody) who played like me, or I played like them. You can see some guys that come now, you can see their games, like Bradley Beal, you can see them and say he's got a Ray Allen type of game."

Beal, in his second season for Washington, can stroke it from the outside and is still developing other aspects of his repertoire.

"There was not really a guy when I came in, that they saw me, and said I play like him," Wade said. "Not close to the same height, etc. So, yeah. But I think that's the cool thing. In a sense, I will have my own space, as that 2-guard. As someone who is 6'3", 6'4" on a good day, and I've done what I was able to do. I think it will be my own space, in a sense."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1927932-dwyane-wade-now-32-still-staking-his-place-among-two-guards

And, of course, any one of Phoenix's three-headed PG monster plays SG frequently. All are 6'3" and under.

I'm not sure you're helping your point much. Monta Ellis is a legitimate combo guard who doesn't embarrass himself when he has to handle the ball. Dwyane Wade is almost 6'5. Ben Gordon is a bench player, who has only had success starting when he played with 6'4 Kirk Hinrich and 6'3 Derrick Rose in the starting lineup.

edit: Goran Dragic is also 6'4.

But they could play, I see no reason why Bradley can't function he may not be as good as them, but still pretty good.

[kozlodoev]

But they could play, I see no reason why Bradley can't function he may not be as good as them, but still pretty good.

Sure. Many SGs with Bradley's size have made a living as career-backup three-point specialists.

[TheFlex]

Haha, not the point at all. As others have said, I was merely challenging the idea that there is a height threshold/requirement for a 2-guard to be good/great.

Undersized shooting guard compared to undersized shooting guard. I don't think anyone's really comparing The Answer to The Avery, just using AI as an example (albeit an extreme one) that size isn't the dealbreaker it's often asserted to be.

Everyone who thinks Iverson truly played SG in all phases of the game may want to check the height of his backcourt partners in Philly.

Useless quibble, but I'll entertain it nonetheless.

Here's some others: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/ellismo01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gordobe01.html

Article on Dwyane Wade:

Part of the conundrum is that there are few close comparisons, few players of his height who have played a similar style.

"Yeah, there ain't," Wade said. "People always asked me who I modeled my game after. Obviously, (Michael) Jordan was the one from the standpoint of talent, but I never looked to see (anybody) who played like me, or I played like them. You can see some guys that come now, you can see their games, like Bradley Beal, you can see them and say he's got a Ray Allen type of game."

Beal, in his second season for Washington, can stroke it from the outside and is still developing other aspects of his repertoire.

"There was not really a guy when I came in, that they saw me, and said I play like him," Wade said. "Not close to the same height, etc. So, yeah. But I think that's the cool thing. In a sense, I will have my own space, as that 2-guard. As someone who is 6'3", 6'4" on a good day, and I've done what I was able to do. I think it will be my own space, in a sense."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1927932-dwyane-wade-now-32-still-staking-his-place-among-two-guards

And, of course, any one of Phoenix's three-headed PG monster plays SG frequently. All are 6'3" and under.

I'm not sure you're helping your point much. Monta Ellis is a legitimate combo guard who doesn't embarrass himself when he has to handle the ball. Dwyane Wade is almost 6'5. Ben Gordon is a bench player, who has only had success starting when he played with 6'4 Kirk Hinrich and 6'3 Derrick Rose in the starting lineup.

edit: Goran Dragic is also 6'4.

As usual you're trying to distort the argument. Someone implied that you have to be a certain height to be effective as a 2-guard. I have given multiple examples of that not being true. AI, Monta Ellis (6'3"), Ben Gordon (very effective for multiple years at 6'3"), Dwyane Wade (where are you getting your numbers from? BBall-Ref claims he's 6'4" and Wade himself said 6'3"/6'4" "on a good day).

According to BBall-Ref Goran Dragic is 6'3". I find it odd that the argument you are defending claims that Bradley's height renders him ineffective, especially on the defensive end, and yet you are caviling at an inch to two inch difference between Bradley and a player who is a far less capable defender.

You keep saying things like, "yeah well that guy played next to a taller point guard." Of course if we accept that Bradley is at a disadvantage height-wise at shooting guard then we cannot continue to evaluate the likelihood of his success at the position in a conventional lineup. In a conventional lineup his height is certainly a problem. That does not mean there is no lineup that Bradley could not succeed in as a shooting guard (perhaps playing next to Marcus Smart), which is a relevant and legitimate point considering that Bradley was bluntly deemed completely incapable of handling SG duties in any circumstance (or rather, in any lineup) because of his height.

[TheFlex]

But they could play, I see no reason why Bradley can't function he may not be as good as them, but still pretty good.

Sure. Many SGs with Bradley's size have made a living as career-backup three-point specialists.

Lol, you are a terrific writer but your points often make little sense once you dig past the impressive vocabulary and sentence structure. All of the guys I've mentioned so far have been starters for multiple seasons in this league.

[kozlodoev]

But they could play, I see no reason why Bradley can't function he may not be as good as them, but still pretty good.

Sure. Many SGs with Bradley's size have made a living as career-backup three-point specialists.

Lol, you are a terrific writer but your points often make little sense once you dig past the impressive vocabulary and sentence structure. All of the guys I've mentioned so far have been starters for multiple seasons in this league.

Funny you should say that, because you don't seem particularly interested in digging beyond the surface of anything.

To address your concerns from the previous post, I take everything from draftexpress.com's measurements database. Sites like Basketball Reference take their measurements from team media guides, in which generally anything goes. DE database contains actual official measurements that were made, recorded and published during the NBA Draft Combine.

You can find a lot of curious stuff there. Wade measured 6'4.75 in shoes. Hinrich measured 6'3.75. Ben Gordon was considerably smaller than listed at 6'2.25, which is why he got relegated to spot starter once Hinrich was no longer around to pick up bigger guards on defense.

Dragic didn't attend the combine and is listed at 6'4 in DraftExpress. No idea how accurate this is, but it is worth noting that in Europe player measurements are reported with no shoes on (which may explain the one-inch difference).

Bradley, for that matter, measured as 6'3.25. That's smaller than everyone on your list not named Ben Gordon, and about the same size as Monta Ellis. Except Ellis has PG skills and Bradley... well, let's just say he doesn't, and leave it at that.

Also, English is not my first language. Which in turn must mean a lot of people on the Internetz these day are semi-literate.