If Mcdermott is available by our 2nd 1st pick

[MBunge]

Paul Pierce is too small at SF? He's 6' 7" and has never been a skinny string bean even in college.

McDermott is a shooter and nothing else. Being a great shooter without handles puts a ceiling on what you can do in the NBA.

Every watch Pierce and Artest go at it?  Yes, in an era where a 6'5'' shooting guard is considered average height, a 6'7'' SF is a bit undersized.

LeBron is 6' 8" and 250, he's probably a bit heavier but not much.

Pierce is 6'7" and 235
Artest is 6'7" and 260

Are you basing your viewpoint of a prototypical SF size on LeBron? Artest and LeBron are probably the two strongest SFs in the most recent era, both are big and bulky guys.

Position average/prototypical height is something like:

PG: 6'2"
SG 6'5"
SF 6'7"
PF 6'9"
C 6'11"

In Hollinger's PER rankings, the top 10 SFs in the league has one 6'6'', one 6'7'', four at 6'8'', three at 6'9'' and one at 6'10''.

Now, when he started his career Pierce may not have been worse than average sized for a SF.  He's clearly been on the small side for the position for quite a while, though.

Mike

[D.o.s.]

The differences between shooting guards and small forwards are pretty arbitrary - they're wing players.

[PickNRoll]

The differences between shooting guards and small forwards are pretty arbitrary - they're wing players.

As always, it depends. If you run out a lineup of Teague, Lou Williams, Millsap/Josh Smith, Horford and Pachulia, it's a pretty important distinction.

[Celtics4ever]

I don't think McDermott had the foot speed to guard my grandmother.   He will have trouble staying in front of some C regardless of his size.   Most PG, SG and SF will be blow by him easily.   A good deal of PF and C could as well.   

Now he is smart and spreads himself wide with his arms out to make guys go around him but this only helps so much.   He will be a defensive liability who needs a monster shot blocker.

Wally World comes across as a good comparison as well.   Good for an expansion team but poor option for a contender.

[Galeto]

The differences between shooting guards and small forwards are pretty arbitrary - they're wing players.

As always, it depends. If you run out a lineup of Teague, Lou Williams, Millsap/Josh Smith, Horford and Pachulia, it's a pretty important distinction.

So Lou Williams is a smaller wing player. 

There aren't any different required skills or attributes between a guard and small forward.  There are featured wings who can create their own shot and/or create for others, be they "guards" or "small forwards" and there are role players who hopefully can shoot well enough from 3 and also defend to be 3 and D players.  It gets really silly when people argue whether a player like Wiggins is a guard or a small forward.  What is the difference?  If he's playing next to Green and is thus a shooting guard, is he going to have to score in different ways than if he's a small forward playing next to Bradley?  No, he might get more post up opportunities against smaller defenders but a player uses what he has regardless of position.   He's blessed to have the size and athleticism to guard any perimeter player so he can play with any wing.

Regarding McDermott, it's hard to see him guarding anyone.  He's not big enough to defend PFs in the post or keep them off the boards and he's not quick enough laterally to prevent dribble penetration.  I suppose the hope is that when he's out there in a 8-9 minute stint off the bench, he can shoot well enough from 3 to outweigh whatever he gives back.  Keeping level is a valuable asset for a role player.

[PickNRoll]

I have to disagree.  There is nothing preventing a team from running out  five short people or five 7-footers.  But the best strategy involves a combination of small and big players.  We created terms to describe that spectrum of small to big (1-5, PG-C), specifically because they have different skills and attributes.  By definition, they're different prototypes.

If you had an all star game between shooting guards and small forwards, I'm not sure who wins, but I bet the guards get killed on the glass and have more steals than the forwards. (Ignoring Lebron and Durant who aren't really human)

[CFAN38]

To many post to read but this is my take on Doug,

He has one elite NBA skill that is shooting, this alone makes him a first round pick.

Size wise he has solid SF size and below average stretch 4 size. At 6'8 235 with 6'8 wing span. Looking at the draftexpress data base his size is almost identical to Luke Walton and similare to Kyle Singler.

I think Singler is a better skill comp than Walton. Walton was a great passer and role player in both college and the NBA. Singler was a primary scorer in college who is transitioning to a role player in the NBA. Singler is currently averaging 9pts a game in 27min.In college he was an inferior 3pt shooter and FT shooter to mcdermott. His superior shooting should allow him more Korver like shooting numbers and closer to 12pts per game.

Aside from being a spot up shooter I think Dougs intermiadiate scoring game is often over looked. The following article was from last years team USA mini cap.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/7/23/4551142/team-usa-basketball-camp-doug-mcdermott-gordon-hayward

I remember there being buzz on twiiter how well Doug did scoring in this mini camp vs the elite in the nba. This leads me be believe He will be at least a 15pt a game guy in the NBA when playing 25+min

Athletically he is obviously a below average SF and probably average for a stretch 4. This is what will hurt him the most on defense. However smart play and know your teams defense principles can make up for this. This is also predicated on his team having a rim protecting big to help cover his difficencys which the Cs currently lack.


So to answer the question I take Doug with any pick after #9 and would as a rookie expect him to play a reserve role around 20 mpg but still average 10+ pts a game.

   

 

[Celtics4ever]

So to answer the question I take Doug with any pick after #9 and would as a rookie expect him to play a reserve role around 20 mpg but still average 10+ pts a game.

Thank God, DA is our GM.

[MBunge]

Paul Pierce career averages in college - 48% shooting, 36% from three.  6.3 rebounds and 16.4 pts per game.

Doug McDermott career averages in college - 55% shooting, 46% from three.  7.5 rebounds and 21.7 pts per game.

Of course, that is NOT to suggest that Dougie Buckets is anywhere close to The Truth.  But he'll truly have to be one of worst defensive players the NBA has ever seen to not be worth a mid-to-late first round lottery pick.

Mike

[CoachBo]

The mischaracterization of McDermott's skillset in this thread is truly humorous.

He will be gone by the time the Celtics use their second pick.

[D.o.s.]

Paul Pierce career averages in college - 48% shooting, 36% from three.  6.3 rebounds and 16.4 pts per game.

Doug McDermott career averages in college - 55% shooting, 46% from three.  7.5 rebounds and 21.7 pts per game.

Of course, that is NOT to suggest that Dougie Buckets is anywhere close to The Truth.  But he'll truly have to be one of worst defensive players the NBA has ever seen to not be worth a mid-to-late first round lottery pick.

Mike

College numbers aren't an easy thing:
53% shooting,  38% from three, 12.7 rebounds and 26.2 points per game.

Can you guess who that was?


On the other hand, Jimmer went 5th, so you know, stranger things have happened/.

[Fafnir]

The mischaracterization of McDermott's skillset in this thread is truly humorous.

Care to go into detail?

[clover]

I'm increasingly convinced that there's enough mid-first round wing talent in this draft, especially, to assure that the C's should get a decent player with their second pick. Of course, it helps that the Nets have had a disappointing season and so the pick will be in the teens, rather than in the 20's.

[MBunge]

Paul Pierce career averages in college - 48% shooting, 36% from three.  6.3 rebounds and 16.4 pts per game.

Doug McDermott career averages in college - 55% shooting, 46% from three.  7.5 rebounds and 21.7 pts per game.

Of course, that is NOT to suggest that Dougie Buckets is anywhere close to The Truth.  But he'll truly have to be one of worst defensive players the NBA has ever seen to not be worth a mid-to-late first round lottery pick.

Mike

College numbers aren't an easy thing:
53% shooting,  38% from three, 12.7 rebounds and 26.2 points per game.

Can you guess who that was?

Someone who didn't play in a conference as good as the Missouri Valley Conference or the new Big East and didn't have those career averages after 4 years in college?

I'm not trying to argue for Ainge taking McDermott at 4 or 5.  But the idea that he wouldn't be a good pick at 17 in a draft where Joel Embiid, a 20 year old who has one season of college ball at 23 minutes, 11 points and 8 boards a game to his credit, is almost a lock to go top 3 even with questions about his back seems kind of dumb.

Mike

[CFAN38]

So to answer the question I take Doug with any pick after #9 and would as a rookie expect him to play a reserve role around 20 mpg but still average 10+ pts a game.

Thank God, DA is our GM.

You compare him to Wally in your previous post and then scoff at the idea of him going #10 in this draft? Wally was drafted #6 and went on to average 14pt a game in ten seasons in the NBA.