The next 10 games will obliterate our lottery chances.

[winsomme]

I don't think so, I think Danny will "weaken" our team further by trading out contributors like Kris Humphries and Brandon Bass (perhaps Jeff Green, too) that other teams may want. He encourages Rondo, Sully, Olynyk, and Bradley to shut down and we rotate in D=leaguers for 10 day contracts.

This is the best case scenario. But it's not going to happen. Ainge wants to win now. He doesn't see this is hurting the Celtics in a bad way for the future. Either that or he just doesn't care. People love watching a treadmill team apparently. We're gonna be in Knicks/Nets land for the next decade. Awesome

  I don't think you've made a convincing argument that we'll be a "treadmill" other than telling people as often as possible that you think the future of the franchise pretty much hinges on tanking, and chastising the rest of the fans for not getting as upset when the team wins as you do.

The trade ideas out there. Getting players like Love or Asik or Melo are treadmill moves. They make the team a playoff contender but not good enough to win it all. If you team up Love Rondo and Melo you will lose. I didn't like the KG move. However....KG was a top 5 player in the NBA at the time. Pierce and Allen were top 20. Love and Melo are barely top 15 and Rondo is nowhere close to that. He isn't a superstar despite the homer ism here. It doesn't add up. So you're mortgaging 6 years of control on a top pick to win a few playoff series and fall short. That is how treadmill teams are made.

Adding Melo being a treadmill move has more to do with Melo not being anywhere as good as some people believe him to be.

I'd easily take Rondo to start a team before I would take Melo.  I'd rather add Asik than Melo.

Yes but does Asik/Rondo get you past Miami or Indiana? If the answer is no then what is the point? I have no doubt that Asik is a nice player to have but it doesn't make the Celtics any better than the 8th seed. That's if they keep Rondo/Sully.

  Asik/Rondo alone won't get you past Miami or Indiana, but neither will a high draft pick. That's most likely going to be a treadmill move.

A high draft pick has a much better chance of paying dividends than Omer Asik. Let's be honest here.

  You're calling players like Love treadmill players as well. Do you think a high draft pick has a better chance of paying dividends than Love does? Let's be honest, he probably doesn't.

The value of a high pick isn't simply assessing how good the available players might be relative to other high pick veterans (ie Melo or Love). You also need to consider what the pick could potentially help you acquire as a chip. Considering a huge chunk of the league is tanking at this point, I'd say the value of a top pick is very high and could bump us off the proverbial 'treadmill'

  A huge chunk of the league isn't tanking. There aren't noticeably more bad teams (or terrible teams) than there were last year or the year before. People are interested in the draft so they view every move made by every team as a possible tank maneuver, and every poor stretch of basketball by a team as an overt move to get a top draft pick. It's way overblown.

Yeah, don't agree. I mean, last year we didn't have "Tank Watch" pervading sports sites and NBA expert's columns. It's getting a lot of attention because it is a big deal IMO.

The trade deadline will tell a lot about how much importance teams are placing on draft position.

[cb8883]

won't get you past Miami or Indiana,

MIA has maybe two more good years and we won't be good in that time frame, I suspect.  Wade is up and down, Bosh can leave and I think LeBron may even leave and go somewhere like LA and that could mean the Clippers.

Miami is a title contender any year they have LeBron. He isn't going anywhere. The Celtics make that trade for Asik they'll just be stopped by Miami Indiana and whatever team decides to be smart and tank in the best draft in over a decade.

[BballTim]

I don't think so, I think Danny will "weaken" our team further by trading out contributors like Kris Humphries and Brandon Bass (perhaps Jeff Green, too) that other teams may want. He encourages Rondo, Sully, Olynyk, and Bradley to shut down and we rotate in D=leaguers for 10 day contracts.

This is the best case scenario. But it's not going to happen. Ainge wants to win now. He doesn't see this is hurting the Celtics in a bad way for the future. Either that or he just doesn't care. People love watching a treadmill team apparently. We're gonna be in Knicks/Nets land for the next decade. Awesome

  I don't think you've made a convincing argument that we'll be a "treadmill" other than telling people as often as possible that you think the future of the franchise pretty much hinges on tanking, and chastising the rest of the fans for not getting as upset when the team wins as you do.

The trade ideas out there. Getting players like Love or Asik or Melo are treadmill moves. They make the team a playoff contender but not good enough to win it all. If you team up Love Rondo and Melo you will lose. I didn't like the KG move. However....KG was a top 5 player in the NBA at the time. Pierce and Allen were top 20. Love and Melo are barely top 15 and Rondo is nowhere close to that. He isn't a superstar despite the homer ism here. It doesn't add up. So you're mortgaging 6 years of control on a top pick to win a few playoff series and fall short. That is how treadmill teams are made.

Adding Melo being a treadmill move has more to do with Melo not being anywhere as good as some people believe him to be.

I'd easily take Rondo to start a team before I would take Melo.  I'd rather add Asik than Melo.

Yes but does Asik/Rondo get you past Miami or Indiana? If the answer is no then what is the point? I have no doubt that Asik is a nice player to have but it doesn't make the Celtics any better than the 8th seed. That's if they keep Rondo/Sully.

  Asik/Rondo alone won't get you past Miami or Indiana, but neither will a high draft pick. That's most likely going to be a treadmill move.

A high draft pick has a much better chance of paying dividends than Omer Asik. Let's be honest here.

  You're calling players like Love treadmill players as well. Do you think a high draft pick has a better chance of paying dividends than Love does? Let's be honest, he probably doesn't.

The value of a high pick isn't simply assessing how good the available players might be relative to other high pick veterans (ie Melo or Love). You also need to consider what the pick could potentially help you acquire as a chip. Considering a huge chunk of the league is tanking at this point, I'd say the value of a top pick is very high and could bump us off the proverbial 'treadmill'

  A huge chunk of the league isn't tanking. There aren't noticeably more bad teams (or terrible teams) than there were last year or the year before. People are interested in the draft so they view every move made by every team as a possible tank maneuver, and every poor stretch of basketball by a team as an overt move to get a top draft pick. It's way overblown.

Yeah, don't agree. I mean, last year we didn't have "Tank Watch" pervading sports sites and NBA expert's columns. It's getting a lot of attention because it is a big deal IMO.

The trade deadline will tell a lot about how much importance teams are placing on draft position.

  That's just the power of pursuasion. The Celts are 6th worst team in the league with a .340 winning percentage. Last year the 6th worst team had a .341 winning percentage, the year before the 6th worst team had a .333 winning percentage. The guys running the "Tank Watches" aren't really that on the ball.

[BballTim]

won't get you past Miami or Indiana,

MIA has maybe two more good years and we won't be good in that time frame, I suspect.  Wade is up and down, Bosh can leave and I think LeBron may even leave and go somewhere like LA and that could mean the Clippers.

Miami is a title contender any year they have LeBron. He isn't going anywhere. The Celtics make that trade for Asik they'll just be stopped by Miami Indiana and whatever team decides to be smart and tank in the best draft in over a decade.

  Think about what you're saying. Best draft in a decade. That may be right. But you're acting like it's the best draft in the history of any sport. It's not.

  When you say "best draft in over 10 years" you're referring to the 2003 draft with LeBron, Wade, Bosh and Melo. Only *one* player in that draft has been anything like a perennial contender, LeBron. Bosh? Nope. Melo? Hardly. Wade? only when he has LeBron or Shaq on his team.

  So for the most part, picking top players in that best draft in over 10 years were treadmill picks. And when you say "Miami Indiana and whatever team decides to be smart and tank in the best draft in over a decade", you mean Miami, Indiana and maybe 1 of the 5-6 teams who are smart enough to tank. Almost all of the teams that were smart enough to tank will either get on the treadmill or suck until the next "best draft in over 10 years".

[winsomme]

I don't think so, I think Danny will "weaken" our team further by trading out contributors like Kris Humphries and Brandon Bass (perhaps Jeff Green, too) that other teams may want. He encourages Rondo, Sully, Olynyk, and Bradley to shut down and we rotate in D=leaguers for 10 day contracts.

This is the best case scenario. But it's not going to happen. Ainge wants to win now. He doesn't see this is hurting the Celtics in a bad way for the future. Either that or he just doesn't care. People love watching a treadmill team apparently. We're gonna be in Knicks/Nets land for the next decade. Awesome

  I don't think you've made a convincing argument that we'll be a "treadmill" other than telling people as often as possible that you think the future of the franchise pretty much hinges on tanking, and chastising the rest of the fans for not getting as upset when the team wins as you do.

The trade ideas out there. Getting players like Love or Asik or Melo are treadmill moves. They make the team a playoff contender but not good enough to win it all. If you team up Love Rondo and Melo you will lose. I didn't like the KG move. However....KG was a top 5 player in the NBA at the time. Pierce and Allen were top 20. Love and Melo are barely top 15 and Rondo is nowhere close to that. He isn't a superstar despite the homer ism here. It doesn't add up. So you're mortgaging 6 years of control on a top pick to win a few playoff series and fall short. That is how treadmill teams are made.

Adding Melo being a treadmill move has more to do with Melo not being anywhere as good as some people believe him to be.

I'd easily take Rondo to start a team before I would take Melo.  I'd rather add Asik than Melo.

Yes but does Asik/Rondo get you past Miami or Indiana? If the answer is no then what is the point? I have no doubt that Asik is a nice player to have but it doesn't make the Celtics any better than the 8th seed. That's if they keep Rondo/Sully.

  Asik/Rondo alone won't get you past Miami or Indiana, but neither will a high draft pick. That's most likely going to be a treadmill move.

A high draft pick has a much better chance of paying dividends than Omer Asik. Let's be honest here.

  You're calling players like Love treadmill players as well. Do you think a high draft pick has a better chance of paying dividends than Love does? Let's be honest, he probably doesn't.

The value of a high pick isn't simply assessing how good the available players might be relative to other high pick veterans (ie Melo or Love). You also need to consider what the pick could potentially help you acquire as a chip. Considering a huge chunk of the league is tanking at this point, I'd say the value of a top pick is very high and could bump us off the proverbial 'treadmill'

  A huge chunk of the league isn't tanking. There aren't noticeably more bad teams (or terrible teams) than there were last year or the year before. People are interested in the draft so they view every move made by every team as a possible tank maneuver, and every poor stretch of basketball by a team as an overt move to get a top draft pick. It's way overblown.

Yeah, don't agree. I mean, last year we didn't have "Tank Watch" pervading sports sites and NBA expert's columns. It's getting a lot of attention because it is a big deal IMO.

The trade deadline will tell a lot about how much importance teams are placing on draft position.

  That's just the power of pursuasion. The Celts are 6th worst team in the league with a .340 winning percentage. Last year the 6th worst team had a .341 winning percentage, the year before the 6th worst team had a .333 winning percentage. The guys running the "Tank Watches" aren't really that on the ball.

Who is persuading who for what purpose? Why wasn't this a topic last season?

Anyway, these are basically rhetorical....Time will tell how badly teams want these top picks.

[BballTim]

Who is persuading who for what purpose? Why wasn't this a topic last season?

Anyway, these are basically rhetorical....Time will tell how badly teams want these top picks.

  Some people claim that there's a ton of tanking going on, other people believe them. It wasn't a topic last season because the draft was bad. That's the point though. There are bad teams when the draft sucks and nobody thinks anything of it. There are a similar amount of bad teams and a good draft and it'a a Tank Watch.

[Smokeeye123]

This is a joke. DANNY WAKE UP blow up the team!!! I dont want to suffer through an abysmal season and end up with the 9th freaking pick. Unbelievable...LA knows what its doing no us i guess.

[nickagneta]

I get the funny feeling that the tankers in the crowd will go apoplectic if we win 7 of 10 and don't make any trades over the next ten days yet, that is exactly what could happen.

I don't know how likely that is. Its probably more likely no trades are made than the team winning 7 of 10 games but anything is possible as a lot of teams that we play over the next t few weeks are tanking hard.

As this comes to fruition I just want to say to those tankers that will be going absolutely bonkers over a winning streak and no trades....

Step back from the ledge and don't jump. Its not worth it. The Celtics will still get a good draft pick and be in contention for a top three pick. Its just their odds of landing one might be slightly less, that's all.

[BballTim]

This is a joke. DANNY WAKE UP blow up the team!!! I dont want to suffer through an abysmal season and end up with the 9th freaking pick. Unbelievable...LA knows what its doing no us i guess.

  LA won tonight, and they also have a slightly better record than us. In what way do they know what they are doing?

[PhoSita]

I get the funny feeling that the tankers in the crowd will go apoplectic if we win 7 of 10 and don't make any trades over the next ten days yet, that is exactly what could happen.

I don't know how likely that is. Its probably more likely no trades are made than the team winning 7 of 10 games but anything is possible as a lot of teams that we play over the next t few weeks are tanking hard.

As this comes to fruition I just want to say to those tankers that will be going absolutely bonkers over a winning streak and no trades....

Step back from the ledge and don't jump. Its not worth it. The Celtics will still get a good draft pick and be in contention for a top three pick. Its just their odds of landing one might be slightly less, that's all.

I'd be pretty surprised if there are no trades in the next two weeks.

Not gonna go bonkers over the Celtics beating teams that are equally atrocious, however.  I have a feeling there's another 8-10 game losing streak in this team before all is said and done.

[nickagneta]

Not gonna go bonkers over the Celtics beating teams that are equally atrocious, however.  I have a feeling there's another 8-10 game losing streak in this team before all is said and done.

Yeah, these last three wins have been against, IMHO, teams that are worse than the Celtics. I also agree that they still have a good long losing streak left in them as well. Maybe not 8-10 in a row but a 2-12 stretch or a 3-14 stretch, something like that.

[Smokeeye123]

This is a joke. DANNY WAKE UP blow up the team!!! I dont want to suffer through an abysmal season and end up with the 9th freaking pick. Unbelievable...LA knows what its doing no us i guess.

  LA won tonight, and they also have a slightly better record than us. In what way do they know what they are doing?

Their roster is composed of scrubs and d league players, and players well into their 30s and 40s and they are in the West. They will finish lower than us.

[PhoSita]

This is a joke. DANNY WAKE UP blow up the team!!! I dont want to suffer through an abysmal season and end up with the 9th freaking pick. Unbelievable...LA knows what its doing no us i guess.

  LA won tonight, and they also have a slightly better record than us. In what way do they know what they are doing?

Their roster is composed of scrubs and d league players, and players well into their 30s and 40s and they are in the West. They will finish lower than us.

Other than broken-down-super-overpaid-Kobe, cap space, and that likely top 5 pick this year, the Lakers don't have anything to build with moving forward.

Meanwhile the Celtics have a likely top 8-10 pick, Sullinger, Rondo, Bradley, KO, Green, a stable of 1st round picks over the next few years . . . I think the Celtics are in a better spot, really, unless the guy the Lakers get in the draft is a head and shoulders move valuable than the guy the Celtics take.

[KGs Knee]

Brooklyn is a big market team. They can attract the pick of the litter free agent. So at worst they'll be a treadmill squad (unless BK is still there) then that would be different. Boston is small market so they need to build through drafting properly. You guys really want to run it back to getting another 30 year old like Melo that would cost multiple picks and make the Celtics a treadmill squad? That's an awful idea. Let Melo and Lala rot in NY. Melo will never win a title and he's a selfish ball hog like Iverson was. Only difference is that that Iverson in his prime was the best. Melo...not so much.

Interesting that you'd classify Boston as "small market".  You do realize the Celtics are the 4th mot valuable NBA franchise, right?  Hardly what I would consider small market.

Boston may not be NY or LA, but they are certainly not a small market team.

By the way, the last time the Celtics traded for a couple of 30 year olds, we went to 3 conference finals, 2 NBA finals and won a championship, all in a 5 year period.  Any fan should want that.

Yes, I realize we used a top 5 pick to make it happen, but I'd say anything in the lottery can get it done.  Teams looking to trade away stars in order to rebuild don't always have a ton of leverage to demand a top 5 pick.

[mmmmm]

There's a difference between non-tankers and anti-tankers. I think most non-tankers here are simply non-tankers, rather than anti-tankers. In that they are aware of the value of a higher pick but don't necessarily believe in putting all our chips in tanking.

+1

I don't understand why this is so difficult to understand.

Everyone can agree that a $10 bill is more valuable than a $1 bill.

But if it costs you $12 to earn that $10 bill, you aren't going forward.