The next 10 games will obliterate our lottery chances.

[cb8883]

I don't think so, I think Danny will "weaken" our team further by trading out contributors like Kris Humphries and Brandon Bass (perhaps Jeff Green, too) that other teams may want. He encourages Rondo, Sully, Olynyk, and Bradley to shut down and we rotate in D=leaguers for 10 day contracts.

This is the best case scenario. But it's not going to happen. Ainge wants to win now. He doesn't see this is hurting the Celtics in a bad way for the future. Either that or he just doesn't care. People love watching a treadmill team apparently. We're gonna be in Knicks/Nets land for the next decade. Awesome

  I don't think you've made a convincing argument that we'll be a "treadmill" other than telling people as often as possible that you think the future of the franchise pretty much hinges on tanking, and chastising the rest of the fans for not getting as upset when the team wins as you do.

The trade ideas out there. Getting players like Love or Asik or Melo are treadmill moves. They make the team a playoff contender but not good enough to win it all. If you team up Love Rondo and Melo you will lose. I didn't like the KG move. However....KG was a top 5 player in the NBA at the time. Pierce and Allen were top 20. Love and Melo are barely top 15 and Rondo is nowhere close to that. He isn't a superstar despite the homer ism here. It doesn't add up. So you're mortgaging 6 years of control on a top pick to win a few playoff series and fall short. That is how treadmill teams are made.

Adding Melo being a treadmill move has more to do with Melo not being anywhere as good as some people believe him to be.

I'd easily take Rondo to start a team before I would take Melo.  I'd rather add Asik than Melo.

Yes but does Asik/Rondo get you past Miami or Indiana? If the answer is no then what is the point? I have no doubt that Asik is a nice player to have but it doesn't make the Celtics any better than the 8th seed. That's if they keep Rondo/Sully.

[BballTim]

I don't think so, I think Danny will "weaken" our team further by trading out contributors like Kris Humphries and Brandon Bass (perhaps Jeff Green, too) that other teams may want. He encourages Rondo, Sully, Olynyk, and Bradley to shut down and we rotate in D=leaguers for 10 day contracts.

This is the best case scenario. But it's not going to happen. Ainge wants to win now. He doesn't see this is hurting the Celtics in a bad way for the future. Either that or he just doesn't care. People love watching a treadmill team apparently. We're gonna be in Knicks/Nets land for the next decade. Awesome

  I don't think you've made a convincing argument that we'll be a "treadmill" other than telling people as often as possible that you think the future of the franchise pretty much hinges on tanking, and chastising the rest of the fans for not getting as upset when the team wins as you do.

The trade ideas out there. Getting players like Love or Asik or Melo are treadmill moves. They make the team a playoff contender but not good enough to win it all. If you team up Love Rondo and Melo you will lose. I didn't like the KG move. However....KG was a top 5 player in the NBA at the time. Pierce and Allen were top 20. Love and Melo are barely top 15 and Rondo is nowhere close to that. He isn't a superstar despite the homer ism here. It doesn't add up. So you're mortgaging 6 years of control on a top pick to win a few playoff series and fall short. That is how treadmill teams are made.

  Too funny. The odds of whoever we draft ever being better than most the players you mentioned aren't all that great. Just for fun, people keep comparing this draft to the 2003 draft. Melo was one of the prized picks in the 2003 draft. Now you're calling him a "treadmill" player.

[pokeKingCurtis]

I don't think so, I think Danny will "weaken" our team further by trading out contributors like Kris Humphries and Brandon Bass (perhaps Jeff Green, too) that other teams may want. He encourages Rondo, Sully, Olynyk, and Bradley to shut down and we rotate in D=leaguers for 10 day contracts.

This is the best case scenario. But it's not going to happen. Ainge wants to win now. He doesn't see this is hurting the Celtics in a bad way for the future. Either that or he just doesn't care. People love watching a treadmill team apparently. We're gonna be in Knicks/Nets land for the next decade. Awesome

Can't believe I missed that. Wow.

Seriously, with some of the things people say here, you'd think that they had insider info in the NBA, which I highly doubt.

If Ainge were truly trying to win now, he would not have traded J-Craw for a couple picks. He would not be keeping our many many picks (I hope you are aware of the fact that we have 8, potentially 9 (iirc) firsts over the next few years) but would instead be trading them for half decent players.

I agree that building yourself a mediocrity treadmill would indeed be horrible. But that's not what Ainge has done.

People love watching a treadmill team apparently. We're gonna be
in Knicks/Nets land for the next decade. Awesome

Treadmill teams don't have a huge stockpile of draft picks.  Teams end up like the Knicks/Nets when they devalue picks so much that they have traded away the next five years of second-round picks on top of moving every tradeable first.

Or they squander them in drafts. Those Nets picks will be good but they'll be an 8 seed for a number of years. Good for mid teens but not high enough for a major impact. Ainge missing on Giannis makes me question his ability these days. Not just him but JJJ and others. His drafting record IS historically solid but I question whether he'll use the picks the right way or cash them in for another 30 year old to go with Rondo.

If you are going to trivialize the value of the picks we have, then you shouldn't have used the example of the OKC Thunder on the other thread.

In the late first round, OKC got players like Ibaka and Reggie Jackson. They acquired Sefolosha by trading away a first.

Without these players, OKC could conceivably be the LeBron-era Cavaliers right now.



ONE player does not do it all. While the value and production of a single player is far more significant than some other sports, basketball is still very much a team sport.

Yes but does Asik/Rondo get you past Miami or Indiana? If the answer is no then what is the point? I have no doubt that Asik is a nice player to have but it doesn't make the Celtics any better than the 8th seed. That's if they keep Rondo/Sully.

While some of Ainge's moves are not """tank moves""", they are nonetheless good moves. Just because something he does isn't relevant to the tank, doesn't mean it's a meaningless exercise.

For example we could be losing value by trading decent players for picks, again with draft picks being very far from a sure thing. Brandon Bass is no Wiggins but he could still conceivably be worth more than many late firsts.

I don't know about you but throwing away valuable assets just doesn't seem smart. Making good basketball moves and acquiring value for less than you've paid for it is just good business.

For example, acquiring Asik with Bass and a first is something you would have to pull the trigger on.

[LooseCannon]

I don't think so, I think Danny will "weaken" our team further by trading out contributors like Kris Humphries and Brandon Bass (perhaps Jeff Green, too) that other teams may want. He encourages Rondo, Sully, Olynyk, and Bradley to shut down and we rotate in D=leaguers for 10 day contracts.

This is the best case scenario. But it's not going to happen. Ainge wants to win now. He doesn't see this is hurting the Celtics in a bad way for the future. Either that or he just doesn't care. People love watching a treadmill team apparently. We're gonna be in Knicks/Nets land for the next decade. Awesome

  I don't think you've made a convincing argument that we'll be a "treadmill" other than telling people as often as possible that you think the future of the franchise pretty much hinges on tanking, and chastising the rest of the fans for not getting as upset when the team wins as you do.

The trade ideas out there. Getting players like Love or Asik or Melo are treadmill moves. They make the team a playoff contender but not good enough to win it all. If you team up Love Rondo and Melo you will lose. I didn't like the KG move. However....KG was a top 5 player in the NBA at the time. Pierce and Allen were top 20. Love and Melo are barely top 15 and Rondo is nowhere close to that. He isn't a superstar despite the homer ism here. It doesn't add up. So you're mortgaging 6 years of control on a top pick to win a few playoff series and fall short. That is how treadmill teams are made.

Adding Melo being a treadmill move has more to do with Melo not being anywhere as good as some people believe him to be.

I'd easily take Rondo to start a team before I would take Melo.  I'd rather add Asik than Melo.

Yes but does Asik/Rondo get you past Miami or Indiana? If the answer is no then what is the point? I have no doubt that Asik is a nice player to have but it doesn't make the Celtics any better than the 8th seed. That's if they keep Rondo/Sully.

It's going to take multiple moves to become a contender.  My modest goal is to be a player away from contention by the summer of 2015, then try to figure out a way to add that player, whether by draft, trade, or free agency.  Yes, Asik and Rondo will be free agents then, but I think they can be brought back with fair deals that aren't massive overpays which prevent the Celtics from adding a player who can put the team over the top.

[BballTim]

I don't think so, I think Danny will "weaken" our team further by trading out contributors like Kris Humphries and Brandon Bass (perhaps Jeff Green, too) that other teams may want. He encourages Rondo, Sully, Olynyk, and Bradley to shut down and we rotate in D=leaguers for 10 day contracts.

This is the best case scenario. But it's not going to happen. Ainge wants to win now. He doesn't see this is hurting the Celtics in a bad way for the future. Either that or he just doesn't care. People love watching a treadmill team apparently. We're gonna be in Knicks/Nets land for the next decade. Awesome

  I don't think you've made a convincing argument that we'll be a "treadmill" other than telling people as often as possible that you think the future of the franchise pretty much hinges on tanking, and chastising the rest of the fans for not getting as upset when the team wins as you do.

The trade ideas out there. Getting players like Love or Asik or Melo are treadmill moves. They make the team a playoff contender but not good enough to win it all. If you team up Love Rondo and Melo you will lose. I didn't like the KG move. However....KG was a top 5 player in the NBA at the time. Pierce and Allen were top 20. Love and Melo are barely top 15 and Rondo is nowhere close to that. He isn't a superstar despite the homer ism here. It doesn't add up. So you're mortgaging 6 years of control on a top pick to win a few playoff series and fall short. That is how treadmill teams are made.

Adding Melo being a treadmill move has more to do with Melo not being anywhere as good as some people believe him to be.

I'd easily take Rondo to start a team before I would take Melo.  I'd rather add Asik than Melo.

Yes but does Asik/Rondo get you past Miami or Indiana? If the answer is no then what is the point? I have no doubt that Asik is a nice player to have but it doesn't make the Celtics any better than the 8th seed. That's if they keep Rondo/Sully.

  Asik/Rondo alone won't get you past Miami or Indiana, but neither will a high draft pick. That's most likely going to be a treadmill move.

[cb8883]

I don't think so, I think Danny will "weaken" our team further by trading out contributors like Kris Humphries and Brandon Bass (perhaps Jeff Green, too) that other teams may want. He encourages Rondo, Sully, Olynyk, and Bradley to shut down and we rotate in D=leaguers for 10 day contracts.

This is the best case scenario. But it's not going to happen. Ainge wants to win now. He doesn't see this is hurting the Celtics in a bad way for the future. Either that or he just doesn't care. People love watching a treadmill team apparently. We're gonna be in Knicks/Nets land for the next decade. Awesome

  I don't think you've made a convincing argument that we'll be a "treadmill" other than telling people as often as possible that you think the future of the franchise pretty much hinges on tanking, and chastising the rest of the fans for not getting as upset when the team wins as you do.

The trade ideas out there. Getting players like Love or Asik or Melo are treadmill moves. They make the team a playoff contender but not good enough to win it all. If you team up Love Rondo and Melo you will lose. I didn't like the KG move. However....KG was a top 5 player in the NBA at the time. Pierce and Allen were top 20. Love and Melo are barely top 15 and Rondo is nowhere close to that. He isn't a superstar despite the homer ism here. It doesn't add up. So you're mortgaging 6 years of control on a top pick to win a few playoff series and fall short. That is how treadmill teams are made.

Adding Melo being a treadmill move has more to do with Melo not being anywhere as good as some people believe him to be.

I'd easily take Rondo to start a team before I would take Melo.  I'd rather add Asik than Melo.

Yes but does Asik/Rondo get you past Miami or Indiana? If the answer is no then what is the point? I have no doubt that Asik is a nice player to have but it doesn't make the Celtics any better than the 8th seed. That's if they keep Rondo/Sully.

  Asik/Rondo alone won't get you past Miami or Indiana, but neither will a high draft pick. That's most likely going to be a treadmill move.

A high draft pick has a much better chance of paying dividends than Omer Asik. Let's be honest here.

[pokeKingCurtis]

I don't think so, I think Danny will "weaken" our team further by trading out contributors like Kris Humphries and Brandon Bass (perhaps Jeff Green, too) that other teams may want. He encourages Rondo, Sully, Olynyk, and Bradley to shut down and we rotate in D=leaguers for 10 day contracts.

This is the best case scenario. But it's not going to happen. Ainge wants to win now. He doesn't see this is hurting the Celtics in a bad way for the future. Either that or he just doesn't care. People love watching a treadmill team apparently. We're gonna be in Knicks/Nets land for the next decade. Awesome

  I don't think you've made a convincing argument that we'll be a "treadmill" other than telling people as often as possible that you think the future of the franchise pretty much hinges on tanking, and chastising the rest of the fans for not getting as upset when the team wins as you do.

The trade ideas out there. Getting players like Love or Asik or Melo are treadmill moves. They make the team a playoff contender but not good enough to win it all. If you team up Love Rondo and Melo you will lose. I didn't like the KG move. However....KG was a top 5 player in the NBA at the time. Pierce and Allen were top 20. Love and Melo are barely top 15 and Rondo is nowhere close to that. He isn't a superstar despite the homer ism here. It doesn't add up. So you're mortgaging 6 years of control on a top pick to win a few playoff series and fall short. That is how treadmill teams are made.

Adding Melo being a treadmill move has more to do with Melo not being anywhere as good as some people believe him to be.

I'd easily take Rondo to start a team before I would take Melo.  I'd rather add Asik than Melo.

Yes but does Asik/Rondo get you past Miami or Indiana? If the answer is no then what is the point? I have no doubt that Asik is a nice player to have but it doesn't make the Celtics any better than the 8th seed. That's if they keep Rondo/Sully.

  Asik/Rondo alone won't get you past Miami or Indiana, but neither will a high draft pick. That's most likely going to be a treadmill move.

A high draft pick has a much better chance of paying dividends than Omer Asik. Let's be honest here.

  Too funny. The odds of whoever we draft ever being better than most the players you mentioned aren't all that great. Just for fun, people keep comparing this draft to the 2003 draft. Melo was one of the prized picks in the 2003 draft. Now you're calling him a "treadmill" player.

[BballTim]

I don't think so, I think Danny will "weaken" our team further by trading out contributors like Kris Humphries and Brandon Bass (perhaps Jeff Green, too) that other teams may want. He encourages Rondo, Sully, Olynyk, and Bradley to shut down and we rotate in D=leaguers for 10 day contracts.

This is the best case scenario. But it's not going to happen. Ainge wants to win now. He doesn't see this is hurting the Celtics in a bad way for the future. Either that or he just doesn't care. People love watching a treadmill team apparently. We're gonna be in Knicks/Nets land for the next decade. Awesome

  I don't think you've made a convincing argument that we'll be a "treadmill" other than telling people as often as possible that you think the future of the franchise pretty much hinges on tanking, and chastising the rest of the fans for not getting as upset when the team wins as you do.

The trade ideas out there. Getting players like Love or Asik or Melo are treadmill moves. They make the team a playoff contender but not good enough to win it all. If you team up Love Rondo and Melo you will lose. I didn't like the KG move. However....KG was a top 5 player in the NBA at the time. Pierce and Allen were top 20. Love and Melo are barely top 15 and Rondo is nowhere close to that. He isn't a superstar despite the homer ism here. It doesn't add up. So you're mortgaging 6 years of control on a top pick to win a few playoff series and fall short. That is how treadmill teams are made.

Adding Melo being a treadmill move has more to do with Melo not being anywhere as good as some people believe him to be.

I'd easily take Rondo to start a team before I would take Melo.  I'd rather add Asik than Melo.

Yes but does Asik/Rondo get you past Miami or Indiana? If the answer is no then what is the point? I have no doubt that Asik is a nice player to have but it doesn't make the Celtics any better than the 8th seed. That's if they keep Rondo/Sully.

  Asik/Rondo alone won't get you past Miami or Indiana, but neither will a high draft pick. That's most likely going to be a treadmill move.

A high draft pick has a much better chance of paying dividends than Omer Asik. Let's be honest here.

  You're calling players like Love treadmill players as well. Do you think a high draft pick has a better chance of paying dividends than Love does? Let's be honest, he probably doesn't.

[Quetzalcoatl]

I would love to see Green gone.  There are so many great SFs in this draft, he is winning us meaningless games and yet he won't take a championship team to another level with his play.  His salary cap hit is going to keep us from getting another big FA.  He needs to go

[cb8883]

I don't think so, I think Danny will "weaken" our team further by trading out contributors like Kris Humphries and Brandon Bass (perhaps Jeff Green, too) that other teams may want. He encourages Rondo, Sully, Olynyk, and Bradley to shut down and we rotate in D=leaguers for 10 day contracts.

This is the best case scenario. But it's not going to happen. Ainge wants to win now. He doesn't see this is hurting the Celtics in a bad way for the future. Either that or he just doesn't care. People love watching a treadmill team apparently. We're gonna be in Knicks/Nets land for the next decade. Awesome

  I don't think you've made a convincing argument that we'll be a "treadmill" other than telling people as often as possible that you think the future of the franchise pretty much hinges on tanking, and chastising the rest of the fans for not getting as upset when the team wins as you do.

The trade ideas out there. Getting players like Love or Asik or Melo are treadmill moves. They make the team a playoff contender but not good enough to win it all. If you team up Love Rondo and Melo you will lose. I didn't like the KG move. However....KG was a top 5 player in the NBA at the time. Pierce and Allen were top 20. Love and Melo are barely top 15 and Rondo is nowhere close to that. He isn't a superstar despite the homer ism here. It doesn't add up. So you're mortgaging 6 years of control on a top pick to win a few playoff series and fall short. That is how treadmill teams are made.

Adding Melo being a treadmill move has more to do with Melo not being anywhere as good as some people believe him to be.

I'd easily take Rondo to start a team before I would take Melo.  I'd rather add Asik than Melo.

Yes but does Asik/Rondo get you past Miami or Indiana? If the answer is no then what is the point? I have no doubt that Asik is a nice player to have but it doesn't make the Celtics any better than the 8th seed. That's if they keep Rondo/Sully.

  Asik/Rondo alone won't get you past Miami or Indiana, but neither will a high draft pick. That's most likely going to be a treadmill move.

A high draft pick has a much better chance of paying dividends than Omer Asik. Let's be honest here.

  You're calling players like Love treadmill players as well. Do you think a high draft pick has a better chance of paying dividends than Love does? Let's be honest, he probably doesn't.

Wiggins Parker and Embiid all have a solid chance. Embiid is still learning the game. He's been compared to a young Hakeem. Wiggins as extremely athletic and if all breaks right could be the crown jewel of this draft. Plus these three all have YOUTH and cost controlled. That's really it. You can build around players making a few million a year than someone getting a max contract. Plus Love will be gone in a year to the Lakers.

[BballTim]

I don't think so, I think Danny will "weaken" our team further by trading out contributors like Kris Humphries and Brandon Bass (perhaps Jeff Green, too) that other teams may want. He encourages Rondo, Sully, Olynyk, and Bradley to shut down and we rotate in D=leaguers for 10 day contracts.

This is the best case scenario. But it's not going to happen. Ainge wants to win now. He doesn't see this is hurting the Celtics in a bad way for the future. Either that or he just doesn't care. People love watching a treadmill team apparently. We're gonna be in Knicks/Nets land for the next decade. Awesome

  I don't think you've made a convincing argument that we'll be a "treadmill" other than telling people as often as possible that you think the future of the franchise pretty much hinges on tanking, and chastising the rest of the fans for not getting as upset when the team wins as you do.

The trade ideas out there. Getting players like Love or Asik or Melo are treadmill moves. They make the team a playoff contender but not good enough to win it all. If you team up Love Rondo and Melo you will lose. I didn't like the KG move. However....KG was a top 5 player in the NBA at the time. Pierce and Allen were top 20. Love and Melo are barely top 15 and Rondo is nowhere close to that. He isn't a superstar despite the homer ism here. It doesn't add up. So you're mortgaging 6 years of control on a top pick to win a few playoff series and fall short. That is how treadmill teams are made.

Adding Melo being a treadmill move has more to do with Melo not being anywhere as good as some people believe him to be.

I'd easily take Rondo to start a team before I would take Melo.  I'd rather add Asik than Melo.

Yes but does Asik/Rondo get you past Miami or Indiana? If the answer is no then what is the point? I have no doubt that Asik is a nice player to have but it doesn't make the Celtics any better than the 8th seed. That's if they keep Rondo/Sully.

  Asik/Rondo alone won't get you past Miami or Indiana, but neither will a high draft pick. That's most likely going to be a treadmill move.

A high draft pick has a much better chance of paying dividends than Omer Asik. Let's be honest here.

  You're calling players like Love treadmill players as well. Do you think a high draft pick has a better chance of paying dividends than Love does? Let's be honest, he probably doesn't.

Wiggins Parker and Embiid all have a solid chance. Embiid is still learning the game. He's been compared to a young Hakeem. Wiggins as extremely athletic and if all breaks right could be the crown jewel of this draft. Plus these three all have YOUTH and cost controlled. That's really it. You can build around players making a few million a year than someone getting a max contract. Plus Love will be gone in a year to the Lakers.

  Good to see you've avoided getting caught up in the hype of this year's draft.

[Celtics4ever]

won't get you past Miami or Indiana,

MIA has maybe two more good years and we won't be good in that time frame, I suspect.  Wade is up and down, Bosh can leave and I think LeBron may even leave and go somewhere like LA and that could mean the Clippers.   

[winsomme]

I don't think so, I think Danny will "weaken" our team further by trading out contributors like Kris Humphries and Brandon Bass (perhaps Jeff Green, too) that other teams may want. He encourages Rondo, Sully, Olynyk, and Bradley to shut down and we rotate in D=leaguers for 10 day contracts.

This is the best case scenario. But it's not going to happen. Ainge wants to win now. He doesn't see this is hurting the Celtics in a bad way for the future. Either that or he just doesn't care. People love watching a treadmill team apparently. We're gonna be in Knicks/Nets land for the next decade. Awesome

  I don't think you've made a convincing argument that we'll be a "treadmill" other than telling people as often as possible that you think the future of the franchise pretty much hinges on tanking, and chastising the rest of the fans for not getting as upset when the team wins as you do.

The trade ideas out there. Getting players like Love or Asik or Melo are treadmill moves. They make the team a playoff contender but not good enough to win it all. If you team up Love Rondo and Melo you will lose. I didn't like the KG move. However....KG was a top 5 player in the NBA at the time. Pierce and Allen were top 20. Love and Melo are barely top 15 and Rondo is nowhere close to that. He isn't a superstar despite the homer ism here. It doesn't add up. So you're mortgaging 6 years of control on a top pick to win a few playoff series and fall short. That is how treadmill teams are made.

Adding Melo being a treadmill move has more to do with Melo not being anywhere as good as some people believe him to be.

I'd easily take Rondo to start a team before I would take Melo.  I'd rather add Asik than Melo.

Yes but does Asik/Rondo get you past Miami or Indiana? If the answer is no then what is the point? I have no doubt that Asik is a nice player to have but it doesn't make the Celtics any better than the 8th seed. That's if they keep Rondo/Sully.

  Asik/Rondo alone won't get you past Miami or Indiana, but neither will a high draft pick. That's most likely going to be a treadmill move.

A high draft pick has a much better chance of paying dividends than Omer Asik. Let's be honest here.

  You're calling players like Love treadmill players as well. Do you think a high draft pick has a better chance of paying dividends than Love does? Let's be honest, he probably doesn't.

The value of a high pick isn't simply assessing how good the available players might be relative to other high pick veterans (ie Melo or Love). You also need to consider what the pick could potentially help you acquire as a chip. Considering a huge chunk of the league is tanking at this point, I'd say the value of a top pick is very high and could bump us off the proverbial 'treadmill'

[pokeKingCurtis]

I don't think so, I think Danny will "weaken" our team further by trading out contributors like Kris Humphries and Brandon Bass (perhaps Jeff Green, too) that other teams may want. He encourages Rondo, Sully, Olynyk, and Bradley to shut down and we rotate in D=leaguers for 10 day contracts.

This is the best case scenario. But it's not going to happen. Ainge wants to win now. He doesn't see this is hurting the Celtics in a bad way for the future. Either that or he just doesn't care. People love watching a treadmill team apparently. We're gonna be in Knicks/Nets land for the next decade. Awesome

  I don't think you've made a convincing argument that we'll be a "treadmill" other than telling people as often as possible that you think the future of the franchise pretty much hinges on tanking, and chastising the rest of the fans for not getting as upset when the team wins as you do.

The trade ideas out there. Getting players like Love or Asik or Melo are treadmill moves. They make the team a playoff contender but not good enough to win it all. If you team up Love Rondo and Melo you will lose. I didn't like the KG move. However....KG was a top 5 player in the NBA at the time. Pierce and Allen were top 20. Love and Melo are barely top 15 and Rondo is nowhere close to that. He isn't a superstar despite the homer ism here. It doesn't add up. So you're mortgaging 6 years of control on a top pick to win a few playoff series and fall short. That is how treadmill teams are made.

Adding Melo being a treadmill move has more to do with Melo not being anywhere as good as some people believe him to be.

I'd easily take Rondo to start a team before I would take Melo.  I'd rather add Asik than Melo.

Yes but does Asik/Rondo get you past Miami or Indiana? If the answer is no then what is the point? I have no doubt that Asik is a nice player to have but it doesn't make the Celtics any better than the 8th seed. That's if they keep Rondo/Sully.

  Asik/Rondo alone won't get you past Miami or Indiana, but neither will a high draft pick. That's most likely going to be a treadmill move.

A high draft pick has a much better chance of paying dividends than Omer Asik. Let's be honest here.

  You're calling players like Love treadmill players as well. Do you think a high draft pick has a better chance of paying dividends than Love does? Let's be honest, he probably doesn't.

The value of a high pick isn't simply assessing how good the available players might be relative to other high pick veterans (ie Melo or Love). You also need to consider what the pick could potentially help you acquire as a chip. Considering a huge chunk of the league is tanking at this point, I'd say the value of a top pick is very high and could bump us off the proverbial 'treadmill'

Yes. The potential value of the pick could be very high.

But it's not surefire. I think this is a very important consideration. You could lose the lottery. Even if your pick does not end up being a bust, it could end up not being good enough. The expected payoff of a single draft pick is therefore not as high.

There is cost in fielding a horrid team. For example Brad Stevens won't get the important experience he needs. For example, getting stomped on a nightly basis may affect development somewhat.

Say you believe none of the aforementioned costs matter.

Purely from the standpoint of player value, by "dumping", say, Bass for far below fair value just to tank, you again increase your cost. Suppose in several years, the team looks to contend and is missing a piece like Bass. The cost of acquiring a player like Bass could be far higher and may involve mortgaging our (then) future.

The expected payoff of tanking is, therefore, even lower.






There's a difference between non-tankers and anti-tankers. I think most non-tankers here are simply non-tankers, rather than anti-tankers. In that they are aware of the value of a higher pick but don't necessarily believe in putting all our chips in tanking.

[BballTim]

I don't think so, I think Danny will "weaken" our team further by trading out contributors like Kris Humphries and Brandon Bass (perhaps Jeff Green, too) that other teams may want. He encourages Rondo, Sully, Olynyk, and Bradley to shut down and we rotate in D=leaguers for 10 day contracts.

This is the best case scenario. But it's not going to happen. Ainge wants to win now. He doesn't see this is hurting the Celtics in a bad way for the future. Either that or he just doesn't care. People love watching a treadmill team apparently. We're gonna be in Knicks/Nets land for the next decade. Awesome

  I don't think you've made a convincing argument that we'll be a "treadmill" other than telling people as often as possible that you think the future of the franchise pretty much hinges on tanking, and chastising the rest of the fans for not getting as upset when the team wins as you do.

The trade ideas out there. Getting players like Love or Asik or Melo are treadmill moves. They make the team a playoff contender but not good enough to win it all. If you team up Love Rondo and Melo you will lose. I didn't like the KG move. However....KG was a top 5 player in the NBA at the time. Pierce and Allen were top 20. Love and Melo are barely top 15 and Rondo is nowhere close to that. He isn't a superstar despite the homer ism here. It doesn't add up. So you're mortgaging 6 years of control on a top pick to win a few playoff series and fall short. That is how treadmill teams are made.

Adding Melo being a treadmill move has more to do with Melo not being anywhere as good as some people believe him to be.

I'd easily take Rondo to start a team before I would take Melo.  I'd rather add Asik than Melo.

Yes but does Asik/Rondo get you past Miami or Indiana? If the answer is no then what is the point? I have no doubt that Asik is a nice player to have but it doesn't make the Celtics any better than the 8th seed. That's if they keep Rondo/Sully.

  Asik/Rondo alone won't get you past Miami or Indiana, but neither will a high draft pick. That's most likely going to be a treadmill move.

A high draft pick has a much better chance of paying dividends than Omer Asik. Let's be honest here.

  You're calling players like Love treadmill players as well. Do you think a high draft pick has a better chance of paying dividends than Love does? Let's be honest, he probably doesn't.

The value of a high pick isn't simply assessing how good the available players might be relative to other high pick veterans (ie Melo or Love). You also need to consider what the pick could potentially help you acquire as a chip. Considering a huge chunk of the league is tanking at this point, I'd say the value of a top pick is very high and could bump us off the proverbial 'treadmill'

  A huge chunk of the league isn't tanking. There aren't noticeably more bad teams (or terrible teams) than there were last year or the year before. People are interested in the draft so they view every move made by every team as a possible tank maneuver, and every poor stretch of basketball by a team as an overt move to get a top draft pick. It's way overblown.