Author Topic: Ainge is a Moron  (Read 22626 times)

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Re: Ainge is a Moron
« Reply #75 on: June 18, 2013, 10:46:37 PM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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LET'S HELP THE CLIPPERS BECOME NBA CHAMPIONS AND GET DEANDRE JORDAN IN RETURN!

5% CHANCE THAT JORDAN BECOMES AN ALL STAR. LET'S BANK ON THAT. ALL THE WHILE BEING TIED DOWN BY HIS OVERPRICED CONTRACT. THAT WILL TOTALLY MOVE OUR REBUILDING PROCESS FORWARD!

BLOW IT UP NO MATTER WHAT!

Re: Ainge is a Moron
« Reply #76 on: June 19, 2013, 12:10:46 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Firstly it wasn't Danny that walked away, it was the Clippers. Danny held firm (finally) at Jordan and 2 firsts. The Clippers decided to walk rather than continue to negotiate and try to get Danny to bend more.

He had already compromised hugely from his original demands (which were admittedly too high, but you always start high to give yourself room to come down).

So really what you are saying is that Danny should have just said screw it I will give you exactly what you want? No. Thats terrible.

Jordan is young and athletic, but extremely flawed and although he might develop he won't be worth the money he is getting paid. With the roster the Clippers would have assembled (especially since it would have clinched a long extension for CP3) those picks would have been virtually second rounders, but guaranteed. And at that point you might find a real steal, but more realistically its bench fodder.

DJ and 2 firsts won't help our rebuild along enough to give in so thoroughly to the Clippers' demands. We are better off taking some time and try to develop some better options. Maybe KG will waive his NTC for another team if given enough time to mull it over and the right situation.

At the end of the day Danny refused to be mugged, and the Clippers decided to walk away, Danny did the right thing by (finally) holding firm.

Exactly, I don't see why some people want Danny to make this move.

Some simple points:

1. DeAndre's Contract:
DeAndre Jordan is owed $10M/year for the next couple of years, roughly the same contract that KG is on

2. DeAndre for now:
DeAndre Jordan is too raw to win us any games right now.  He an above average rebounder, a good shot blocker and he's very athletic...but he is a liability on offense for a Boston team who's biggest problem right now is a lack of offense.  He'd make a fantastic backup center (certainly a huge upgrade over DJ White, Shav or Wilcox) but who wants to pay $10M/year for a backup?

3. DeAndrew for the Future:
DeAndre Jordan doesn't have a massive upside.  He shoots 30% from the foul line, he has no jump shot, he has no post up skills and he doesn't have a super high IQ.  His youth (24 years old) may suggest he has a lot of potential to improve, but reality is that he's alrady been in the league 5 seasons and nothing much as changed...nothing much likely will.  To the major optimist his ceiling Tyson Chandler, but to anyone realistic his ceiling is more like Samuel Dalembert - only a worse FT shooter.  That gives you a solid backup / average starter for years to come so if you discard the money factor you could do much worse...but then would you really pay $10M and give up two future hall of famers and a top tier coach in return for a possible future Sam Dalembert? You could just as easily draft one with #16.

4. LAC Picks:
The Clippers were offering us two picks + Jordan from memory.  If we make this deal the Clippers end up with a starting lineup of Chris Paul, Chauncey Billups, Paul Pierce, Blake Griffin, Kevin Garnett as well as Doc Rivers as the head coach. Then you still have Bledsoe (since they won't give him to us), Jamaal Crawford and Lamar Odom coming off the bench.  If that team doesn't make it to at least the WCF it would be the biggest basketball dissapointment of the last decade...and if they do make it to the WVC those two draft picks will fall somewhere in the 27-30 range.  That's not worth much from a talent perspective or a trade asset perspective. In fact it's not worth much period.

5. Loss of production
With the loss of KG and Pierce we lose a combined production of 34 PPG, 14 RPG, 7 APG.  Even if you assume an increased role and calculate on a Per-36 minute basis, the 13 PPG, 10 RPG and 0.5 APG we get back from Jordan still leaves us with a 20 point, 4 rebound, 6 assist void to fill.  Where will that come from?  In addition to that there are the intangibles.  The defensive impact that KG has on the entire team will be gone, as will the veteran leadership of both players and Doc.  In the meantime buying out Pierce only saves us enough Cap space to put us right on the Cap limit, so we still cannot sign players for any more than the MLE, BIA or Vet Min.  That's not enough resources to fill the voids left by Pierce and KG...not even close.

This is even before you consider the other intangibles.  Will Rondo resign if there's no Doc, no Pierce, no KG and the team is not Playoff bound?  Will guys like Melo, Sully and Bradley develop to their potential without those guys around as mentors?

If you are getting sufficient young talent in return then sure, you take those gambles becasue the talent is there and will eventually work itself out (as with the OKC scenario) but what we were getting back from the Clippers certainly doesn't quality as 'sufficient young talent'.   

Re: Ainge is a Moron
« Reply #77 on: June 19, 2013, 12:37:28 AM »

Offline wiley

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This here page 6 is full of common sense!

So happy with DA for not reducing his demands any more.

The Clippers wanted the Celtics to do a deal that has no real benefit.

The Clips now have no chance in the next two years.  They will run
out of patience and the window will close.  They think they are being patient
now but they're not.  They're missing out a chance at 1 to 2 rings.  What a team
they could be with a rested KG in the playoffs (they're a playoff team without
KG, meaning they could rest him as much as they want during the season and
unleash him in the playoffs) and probably Paul Pierce.  Dumb dumb move by
the Clippers.

Re: Ainge is a Moron
« Reply #78 on: June 19, 2013, 08:06:59 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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There's a misspelling in the title.  There's supposed to be an "m" after the "r."
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Re: Ainge is a Moron
« Reply #79 on: June 19, 2013, 08:16:55 AM »

Offline chambers

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I'm just amazed at how many people think that this was somehow a bad deal for the Celtics.

Do people actually think that Danny wants Jordan for his production? The point of getting him is that we will suck, and Rondo will increase his trade value at the same time.

Luckily, his deal is only two years. Plenty of time for us to win 20-30 games next year and get DeAndre's stats up over 35 minutes instead of the 24 he plays next to Griffin and Odom.

Doc doesn't want to be here.I think we all agree that KG doesn't want to be here if Doc's not here.
They'll both be gone, and we'll have nothing to show for it.
We'll still be over the cap.
We'll still suck, but we won't have two extra picks. We won't have an athletic 7 footer under 25 years old for Rondo to make look worth 150% of his true value.

Who knows what those 2 picks could be packaged into for the future some day.

Just unbelievable how close minded we can be when emotion overrides logic.

Hopefully they pick up the phone and call Danny, and I like that Danny drew the line in the sand but if you can't see the benefits of these moves you're missing something.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Ainge is a Moron
« Reply #80 on: June 19, 2013, 09:34:21 AM »

Offline connor

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I'm just amazed at how many people think that this was somehow a bad deal for the Celtics.

Do people actually think that Danny wants Jordan for his production? The point of getting him is that we will suck, and Rondo will increase his trade value at the same time.

Luckily, his deal is only two years. Plenty of time for us to win 20-30 games next year and get DeAndre's stats up over 35 minutes instead of the 24 he plays next to Griffin and Odom.

Doc doesn't want to be here.I think we all agree that KG doesn't want to be here if Doc's not here.
They'll both be gone, and we'll have nothing to show for it.
We'll still be over the cap.
We'll still suck, but we won't have two extra picks. We won't have an athletic 7 footer under 25 years old for Rondo to make look worth 150% of his true value.

Who knows what those 2 picks could be packaged into for the future some day.

Just unbelievable how close minded we can be when emotion overrides logic.

Hopefully they pick up the phone and call Danny, and I like that Danny drew the line in the sand but if you can't see the benefits of these moves you're missing something.

Firstly it was only one pick not two, which was the main sticking point for Ainge.

If your logic behind accepting the deal is that Danny wanted the deal so that we would suck, well if KG retires and we dump Pierce we are going to suck even worse than we would have with Jordan since we can't bring in anyone anyway.

On top of that the one pick they were offerring most likely would be in the late 20s and although you can find a steal there, most teams don't.

Jordan doesn't have great trade value. I'm one of the few that thinks we could have flipped him for something half way decent (expiring and a mid-late first probably) after a year playing with Rondo.

The real issue is that Danny was getting punked if he was taking just DJ and ONE first. He held firm (finally) and they walked away. Do you want Danny to go chasing after them and take DJ and one first and basically get mugged in that deal? Doc is worth a late first on his own and a DJ for KG swap is just insane.

At a certain point we just became better off not doing the deal than agreeing entirely to their terms. They overplayed their hand and ended up with nothing. DJ and one first is probably better than nothing, but its not going to drastically change our rebuild for the better. We might as well sit back and see if anything develops for us closer to the draft, its better than getting hosed by Donald Sterling, Gary Sacks and one of the worst franchises in the association.

Re: Ainge is a Moron
« Reply #81 on: June 19, 2013, 09:39:50 AM »

Offline Chris

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I'm glad Danny passed on this particular offer.

I agree.  Danny HAD to walk away when the Clippers wouldn't meet him halfway.

And I really don't think this is on Danny.  I genuinely believe that this deal was killed by Sterling.  When he realized how much money he would be paying Doc, and then on top of that, paying for Jordan's trade kicker, I think he pulled the plug, by basically telling his team to stop negotiating, and only make offers that Danny cannot possibly accept...which is what the Clippers did.

It is the cheap, old, racist version of the bait and switch. 

Re: Ainge is a Moron
« Reply #82 on: June 19, 2013, 10:13:44 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I'm glad Danny passed on this particular offer.
Why?  What better offer is coming Boston's way?
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Re: Ainge is a Moron
« Reply #83 on: June 19, 2013, 10:20:26 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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I'm glad Danny passed on this particular offer.
Why?  What better offer is coming Boston's way?


Nothing is better then the offer on the table. 


The team gets worse, saves no money and adds no real future building blocks.

Re: Ainge is a Moron
« Reply #84 on: June 19, 2013, 10:23:11 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I'm glad Danny passed on this particular offer.
Why?  What better offer is coming Boston's way?


Nothing is better then the offer on the table. 


The team gets worse, saves no money and adds no real future building blocks.

Yeah, we're probably better off just letting Doc, KG, and Pierce go and have cap space that Deandre Jordan would've taken up.

Jordan wouldn't have made us much better in the short term, and he would have tied up cap space, or left for nothing in free agency, long term.

So the deal was mostly about getting draft assets or unloading long term salary.  Since the Clippers weren't willing to help us with that, there was little point in doing the deal.
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Re: Ainge is a Moron
« Reply #85 on: June 19, 2013, 10:52:26 AM »

Offline connor

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I'm glad Danny passed on this particular offer.
Why?  What better offer is coming Boston's way?


Nothing is better then the offer on the table. 


The team gets worse, saves no money and adds no real future building blocks.

At the moment, no there isn't a better deal out there, but that doesn't mean we should just take that terrible deal.

DJ and a first, which was their final offer, does almost nothing for our rebuild. The first is most likely late 20s (an early second rounder is arguably better because its non-guaranteed). And Jordan will never live up to that contract, isn't a building block and most likely the best we could move him for another bad contract and another late first.

In essence we end up with 2 late round firsts at best. I'd rather take my chances that something develops over time (e.g. KG is willing to waive his NTC for another team or at the trade deadline).

Maybe its stupid but if I was the GM I wouldn't let LAC bully me into taking scraps because I was out of options. The return isn't worth it. I'd rather work on trying to develop other options, the opportunity cost of losing the potential to end up with 2 late firsts is minor in the grand scheme of things.

In fact even if KG and Doc bail, we probably are a worse team next year without DJ and get a better 2014 pick in a loaded class.

Re: Ainge is a Moron
« Reply #86 on: June 19, 2013, 06:34:57 PM »

Offline wiley

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I'm glad Danny passed on this particular offer.
Why?  What better offer is coming Boston's way?


Nothing is better then the offer on the table. 


The team gets worse, saves no money and adds no real future building blocks.

At the moment, no there isn't a better deal out there, but that doesn't mean we should just take that terrible deal.

DJ and a first, which was their final offer, does almost nothing for our rebuild. The first is most likely late 20s (an early second rounder is arguably better because its non-guaranteed). And Jordan will never live up to that contract, isn't a building block and most likely the best we could move him for another bad contract and another late first.

In essence we end up with 2 late round firsts at best. I'd rather take my chances that something develops over time (e.g. KG is willing to waive his NTC for another team or at the trade deadline).

Maybe its stupid but if I was the GM I wouldn't let LAC bully me into taking scraps because I was out of options. The return isn't worth it. I'd rather work on trying to develop other options, the opportunity cost of losing the potential to end up with 2 late firsts is minor in the grand scheme of things.

In fact even if KG and Doc bail, we probably are a worse team next year without DJ and get a better 2014 pick in a loaded class.

He was saying that doing nothing is better than taking the deal, not that there isn't a better deal so we should take this one...

I had to read it twice too.  It appears to be a fault of the English language itself and not poor use of English.  English isn't a perfect language, it turns out!

Re: Ainge is a Moron
« Reply #87 on: June 19, 2013, 06:46:04 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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I'm just amazed at how many people think that this was somehow a bad deal for the Celtics.

Do people actually think that Danny wants Jordan for his production? The point of getting him is that we will suck, and Rondo will increase his trade value at the same time.

Luckily, his deal is only two years. Plenty of time for us to win 20-30 games next year and get DeAndre's stats up over 35 minutes instead of the 24 he plays next to Griffin and Odom.

Doc doesn't want to be here.I think we all agree that KG doesn't want to be here if Doc's not here.
They'll both be gone, and we'll have nothing to show for it.
We'll still be over the cap.
We'll still suck, but we won't have two extra picks. We won't have an athletic 7 footer under 25 years old for Rondo to make look worth 150% of his true value.

Who knows what those 2 picks could be packaged into for the future some day.

Just unbelievable how close minded we can be when emotion overrides logic.

Hopefully they pick up the phone and call Danny, and I like that Danny drew the line in the sand but if you can't see the benefits of these moves you're missing something.

 TP Chambers I'm with ya

Re: Ainge is a Moron
« Reply #88 on: June 19, 2013, 06:49:10 PM »

Offline slamdunk

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This is like the time the Tampa Rays walked away from Lester and Hanley for Aubrey Huff. They get the exact deal they want and it still isn't enough.


Perhaps the Clippers will compromise at a second round pick in 2014 for the additional pick

The Clippers have refused to compromise at any point here, what makes you think they are going to start now?

Re: Ainge is a Moron
« Reply #89 on: June 19, 2013, 06:57:29 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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RIvers is squirming like a  worm ......he doesn't want to have to come back to Boston / Media and face the music ....UNLESS he says I'm leaving for LA


I tell you...... LA never had any intention of backing out

THEY have been planning this since the break last season.....

They will give in to the original demands , all DA has to do is say take it or leave it,,,,,the clippers are in panic they're plans are falling apart  and CP3 might bolt.


I would make RIVERS   sweat bullets , and ask for the moon..... Bledsoe and all kinds of stuff,   

We know know Rivers told DA we wasn't coming back into talks , and maybe he could persuade his NEW BOSS to do all DA asks.......DOcs butt is really hanging here...he needs this as bad as anybody to happen to save face.

I knew it was a pile of smoke saying the Clips walked away.......they got to have KG and DOc to keep CP3 there    PERIOD end of story.