The Celtic-Clipper trade talk (merged) - Clippers back out.

[paidthecost2betheboss]

^ From all accounts, Danny is getting bent over a barrel. 

(That's in reference to bleedgreen's post.)

re: "bent over a barrel"

I can't disagree with the point you're making, but I'd like to gently, and hopefully without controversy, point out that using vaguely rape-y metaphors isn't really necessary nor in best taste.

I know it's really common parlance to say things like that, but one of my personal things is I try to call people out on it and de-normalize it.

Nothing personal.

The phrase has nothing to do with rape.

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ove2.htm

I have 2 T.P.'s
I gave you one...I don't know how that works
Thank you for pointing out the easily identifiable ridiculousness in a thread where it's hard to spot yet everywhere.

[Tgro]

I think if this deal doesn't go through the Clippers will be the ones devastated-not us

Amen. I actually hope this happens.

It might be remembered in Clipper land as the closest they ever got to winning a Banner and whiffed.

[celticinorlando]

the deal for the Celtics is bad....

an average (and this is generous) center and 2 low picks that won't amount to much in the end

[Roy H.]

^ From all accounts, Danny is getting bent over a barrel. 

(That's in reference to bleedgreen's post.)

Let's revisit this again. We're trading an all-time great. We're trading an all-time great with a ton of mileage and at the tail end of his career.

It's a player that we kept on a strict minute schedule last season, and who was limited to 5 games over the month before the playoffs.

I understand he's still very good (but he did look disproportionately good last year not in a small part due to the fact that the remaining part of the Celtics' big rotation was god-awful), but how much do you think 2 years of a severely limited Garnett is _really_ worth?

I think that the guy who could ultimately win the Clippers a title is worth more than a mediocre big man on a big contract.

Not sure how this is relevant, given that the proposed deals is for more than Jordan already.

Did you read the article?

The draft picks are for Doc.  The KG trade would be straight up for Jordan.

[LooseCannon]

Can someone tell me why it feels like Doc has so much leverage?

Because people keep assuming that this deal is being made because of Doc.

Could you tell us what this deal is all about, then, if not Doc?

Getting assets for Garnett. Getting the best available assets for Garnett, to be precise.

I don't get why this deal couldn't get done without Doc. Its like Doc is the throw in for the deal. If they want both of them shouldn't they have to give up something?

He's not a throw-in. The Clippers are well-aware of Garnett's relationship with Doc.

Then why does this package seem ridiculously low balled? I mean, isn't it?

Given Garnett's age and health, there is a good chance that acquiring him is basically a one-year rental.  The asking price for solid veterans on expiring contracts has generally been a pick and a young player and has been denied.  Garnett is better than a solid veteran.  I'd probably see a fair value as something between Jordan/two firsts and Jordan/three firsts, so I'd like to see Ainge end up with Jordan, two firsts, and two seconds.  Second-round picks have value and I would have to downgrade my assessment of Ainge if he didn't try to scoop up a couple in the deal.

I don't think getting Bledsoe was ever a realistic possibility, so I am not disappointed that he is not in the deal.

[Evantime34]

With the rumor out there that KG would potentially play for the Clippers with CP3 there even if Doc stays, I wonder if the C's can step back and start shopping him to other contenders.

Maybe this is just the way the media has painted it, but to me it seems like LAC is the only option for a trade of KG. We need to show them, that isn't the case to regain the upper hand in the negotiations.

[kozlodoev]

Well you were just saying that late firsts are a crapshoot anyway. Does that make it much better?

They are a crap shoot. Which means that conceptually, I find acquiring proven commodities a better way to manage. Or perhaps I should say less risky -- would you rather have Ray Allen, or an asset that may net you a dud or a stud, but will likely result with a Ray-Allen type on average?

This being said, a chance to take part in the crap shoot is still something. But yes, I'd probably have taken Bledsoe instead.

[LooseCannon]

With the rumor out there that KG would potentially play for the Clippers with CP3 there even if Doc stays, I wonder if the C's can step back and start shopping him to other contenders.

Maybe this is just the way the media has painted it, but to me it seems like LAC is the only option for a trade of KG. We need to show them, that isn't the case to regain the upper hand in the negotiations.

How do you get around KG's no-trade clause, which was given to him pretty much for the purpose of letting him control where he went if traded?

[The Rondo Show]

I have a feeling we are following this like hawks only to end up without a trade happening

[LooseCannon]

Well you were just saying that late firsts are a crapshoot anyway. Does that make it much better?

They are a crap shoot. Which means that conceptually, I find acquiring proven commodities a better way to manage. Or perhaps I should say less risky -- would you rather have Ray Allen, or an asset that may net you a dud or a stud, but will likely result with a Ray-Allen type on average?

This being said, a chance to take part in the crap shoot is still something. But yes, I'd probably have taken Bledsoe instead.

So, you want to stick with the proven veterans rather than take a chance on an inexperienced player, unless you think that player has so much talent that he looks like a sure thing?

[BleedGreen1989]

With the rumor out there that KG would potentially play for the Clippers with CP3 there even if Doc stays, I wonder if the C's can step back and start shopping him to other contenders.

Maybe this is just the way the media has painted it, but to me it seems like LAC is the only option for a trade of KG. We need to show them, that isn't the case to regain the upper hand in the negotiations.

How do you get around KG's no-trade clause, which was given to him pretty much for the purpose of letting him control where he went if traded?

This is just me speculating but wouldn't Garnett have interest in playing in Chicago?

He won a title with Thibs and clearly has a lot of respect for him. Also, Garnett is originally from the Chicago area if I'm not mistaken.

I could see him playing there and I could see Chicago certainly having interest.

Could you imagine a front court of Deng/Garnett/Noah?

[kozlodoev]

Did you read the article?

The draft picks are for Doc.  The KG trade would be straight up for Jordan.

Not sure which article you're referring to. Hacks with Internet access have said all sorts of stuff, but the absence of official information, especially from the Celtics camp, is quite evident.

In my mind its all one transaction, regardless. Given the cap limitations, calling it anything else is an exercise in rhetorics.

[kozlodoev]

With the rumor out there that KG would potentially play for the Clippers with CP3 there even if Doc stays, I wonder if the C's can step back and start shopping him to other contenders.

Maybe this is just the way the media has painted it, but to me it seems like LAC is the only option for a trade of KG. We need to show them, that isn't the case to regain the upper hand in the negotiations.

How do you get around KG's no-trade clause, which was given to him pretty much for the purpose of letting him control where he went if traded?

This is just me speculating but wouldn't Garnett have interest in playing in Chicago?

He won a title with Thibs and clearly has a lot of respect for him. Also, Garnett is originally from the Chicago area if I'm not mistaken.

I could see him playing there and I could see Chicago certainly having interest.

Could you imagine a front court of Deng/Garnett/Noah?

He is from North Carolina. He moved to Chicago later. Regardless, he's not interested in Chicago -- and they don't seem to have a spot for him regardless.

[prov1ml34]

Multiple reports coming out that Clips called deal off. GOOD!

[prov1ml34]

Now since CP3 sees what kind of an operation the Clippers are, lets start up talks with them on a sign and trade to get CP3 here!