Rumor: Cs passed on PP & 1st for Smith

[CelticConcourse]

Here' another report on Josh Smith (item 2).

What's indisputable is that the Hawks, given their druthers, had hoped to send Smith to the Western Conference if they found a workable trade. Sources say that Dallas was among the teams that rejected those overtures, with the Mavs unwilling to add a draft pick to a package that would have cost them Vince Carter and Chris Kaman's expiring contract in addition to rookie Jae Crowder and the expiring deals of Brandan Wright and Dahntay Jones.

Since Dallas was reported to be receiving Pierce in the proposed three-way, I wonder if the Mavs ever talked to Ainge about Pierce for Jae Crowder, Chris Kaman, and stuff and what kind of "stuff" Ainge would want to consider that trade.

I'm sure Mayo.... Danny likes OJ.

Dallas was adamant in saying Marion, Dirk and Carter were not moving.

[celticmania]

Is it possible to resign Paul pierce in the off season for less money ? Like 5 million ?

[rutzan]

Josh Smith / 2012 to 2013 / 9th yr
17.4 pts
8.6 rebs
4.3 assts
2.0 blks
1.2 stls

21st in rebs in the NBA
Only 6 of the players have scored more pts
3/6 players were 2012/2013 All-Stars ( Aldridge, Griffin, Lee)
1/6 players were former All-Star ( Horford )
One of those players has scored 4 more pts ( Greg Monroe )
One of those players has scored 6 more pts ( Al Horford )
Only 2 of those 6 players has more stls ( Blake Griffin & Greg Monroe )
Not one of the 6 players has more assts
Not one of the 6 players has more blks
Only 2 of those 6 players were ever traded ( Al Jefferson & David Lee )

Those 6 players are:

LaMarcus Aldridge / 2013 All-Star / 2-Time All-Star / 6th yr in the NBA / $15.7M per yr
Blake Griffin / 2013 All-Star / 3-Time All-Star / 3rd yr in the NBA / $5.7M per yr
Al Jefferson / 9th yr in the NBA / $14M per yr
Al Horford / 2-Time All-Star / 6th yr in the NBA / $12M per yr
Greg Monroe / 3rd yr in the NBA / $4m per yr
David Lee / 2013 All-Star / 2-Time All-Star / 8th yr in the NBA / $15.5M per yr

Dahntey Jones
6 teams in 10 yrs

Brandan Wright
3 teams in 6 yrs

Jae Crowder
34th Selection in 2012 NBA Draft

Josh Smith will Easily get paid Big Bucks or get Real value in a trade because that is his market value and because players with his overall production are Rarely on the market

[hpantazo]

Josh Smith / 2012 to 2013 / 9th yr
17.4 pts
8.6 rebs
4.3 assts
2.0 blks
1.2 stls

21st in rebs in the NBA
Only 6 of the players have scored more pts
One of those players has scored 4 more pts ( Greg Monroe )
One of those players has scored 6 more pts ( Al Horford )
Only 2 of those 6 players has more stls ( Blake Griffin & Greg Monroe )
Not one of the 6 players has more assts
Not one of the 6 players has more blks
Only 2 of those 6 players were ever traded ( Al Jefferson & David Lee )

Those 6 players are:

LaMarcus Aldridge / 2013 All-Star / 2-Time All-Star / 6th yr in the NBA / $15.7M per yr
Blake Griffin / 2013 All-Star / 3-Time All-Star / 3rd yr in the NBA / $5.7M per yr
Al Jefferson / 9th yr in the NBA / $14M per yr
Al Horford / 2-Time All-Star / 6th yr in the NBA / $12M per yr
Greg Monroe / 3rd yr in the NBA / $4m per yr
David Lee / 2013 All-Star / 2-Time All-Star / 8th yr in the NBA / $15.5M per yr

Dahntey Jones
6 teams in 10 yrs

Brandan Wright
3 teams in 6 yrs

Jae Crowder
34th Selection in 2012 NBA Draft

Josh Smith will Easily get paid Big Bucks or get Real value in a trade because that is his market value and because players with his overall production are Rarely on the market

No one is arguing that he won't be paid big $$$, he will be. He was not worth trading more than what was offered in the reported deal though for less than half a season rental of a player who has never made an all-star team and is going to enter his 10th year in the league next year.

Also, whether or not the celtics should even consider giving him big $$$ for a long term deal is a very valid argument. He's not worth tying up cap space to build around. He's not worth it if you want the team to contend. Some small market team that needs a player to sell tickets and knows they will not contend will give him the money though.

 He will put up nice numbers for a few years on a poor team until his athleticism goes an he  pouts even more than he does now and begins relying completely on poor outside shooting.

[Evantime34]

I would have done it without the first included, but Atlanta would have been getting absolutely hosed if we didn't include a first rounder. This deal would probably have made us worse this year but much better next year (when I expect Pierce to retire)

[hpantazo]

Josh Smith / 2012 to 2013 / 9th yr
17.4 pts
8.6 rebs
4.3 assts
2.0 blks
1.2 stls

Antoine Walker's 9th season at the trade deadline that year:

20.4 points
9.4 rebounds
3.7 assists
0.6 blocks
1.2 steals

Looks very similar to Josh Smith's stats at the same point in their careers.

Is that who we should spend big bucks on to build around?

[rutzan]

Josh Smith / 2012 to 2013 / 9th yr
17.4 pts
8.6 rebs
4.3 assts
2.0 blks
1.2 stls

21st in rebs in the NBA
Only 6 of the players have scored more pts
One of those players has scored 4 more pts ( Greg Monroe )
One of those players has scored 6 more pts ( Al Horford )
Only 2 of those 6 players has more stls ( Blake Griffin & Greg Monroe )
Not one of the 6 players has more assts
Not one of the 6 players has more blks
Only 2 of those 6 players were ever traded ( Al Jefferson & David Lee )

Those 6 players are:

LaMarcus Aldridge / 2013 All-Star / 2-Time All-Star / 6th yr in the NBA / $15.7M per yr
Blake Griffin / 2013 All-Star / 3-Time All-Star / 3rd yr in the NBA / $5.7M per yr
Al Jefferson / 9th yr in the NBA / $14M per yr
Al Horford / 2-Time All-Star / 6th yr in the NBA / $12M per yr
Greg Monroe / 3rd yr in the NBA / $4m per yr
David Lee / 2013 All-Star / 2-Time All-Star / 8th yr in the NBA / $15.5M per yr

Dahntey Jones
6 teams in 10 yrs

Brandan Wright
3 teams in 6 yrs

Jae Crowder
34th Selection in 2012 NBA Draft

Josh Smith will Easily get paid Big Bucks or get Real value in a trade because that is his market value and because players with his overall production are Rarely on the market

No one is arguing that he won't be paid big $$$, he will be. He was not worth trading more than what was offered in the reported deal though for less than half a season rental of a player who has never made an all-star team and is going to enter his 10th year in the league next year.

Also, whether or not the celtics should even consider giving him big $$$ for a long term deal is a very valid argument. He's not worth tying up cap space to build around. He's not worth it if you want the team to contend. Some small market team that needs a player to sell tickets and knows they will not contend will give him the money though.

 He will put up nice numbers for a few years on a poor team until his athleticism goes an he  pouts even more than he does now and begins relying completely on poor outside shooting.

Very few players ever get to the mkt with Josh Smith's production...4 of the above 6 were never traded...of the 2 that made it to the mkt place and were traded...Big Al netted KG and the Lee netted Anthony Randolph, Ronny Turiaf and Kelenna Azubuike...which is as bad as Dahntey Jones/6 teams in 10 yrs, Brandan Wright/3 teams in 6 yrs and Jae Crowder/34th Selection in 2012 NBA Draft...Danny Ferry cut his teeth with the Spurs and almost built a champion in Cle...he will be shooting for as close as possible to a Big Al/KG trade...he will be patient and hold out to the end...ala DH last year...he will not accept spare parts and will not be desperate and act foolishly and hastily...which is a total knee-jerk reaction succumbing to pressure...he will easily do better than Dahntey Jones/6 teams in 10 yrs, Brandan Wright/3 teams in 6 yrs and Jae Crowder/34th Selection in 2012 NBA Draft......guaranteed...

[hpantazo]

Josh Smith / 2012 to 2013 / 9th yr
17.4 pts
8.6 rebs
4.3 assts
2.0 blks
1.2 stls

21st in rebs in the NBA
Only 6 of the players have scored more pts
One of those players has scored 4 more pts ( Greg Monroe )
One of those players has scored 6 more pts ( Al Horford )
Only 2 of those 6 players has more stls ( Blake Griffin & Greg Monroe )
Not one of the 6 players has more assts
Not one of the 6 players has more blks
Only 2 of those 6 players were ever traded ( Al Jefferson & David Lee )

Those 6 players are:

LaMarcus Aldridge / 2013 All-Star / 2-Time All-Star / 6th yr in the NBA / $15.7M per yr
Blake Griffin / 2013 All-Star / 3-Time All-Star / 3rd yr in the NBA / $5.7M per yr
Al Jefferson / 9th yr in the NBA / $14M per yr
Al Horford / 2-Time All-Star / 6th yr in the NBA / $12M per yr
Greg Monroe / 3rd yr in the NBA / $4m per yr
David Lee / 2013 All-Star / 2-Time All-Star / 8th yr in the NBA / $15.5M per yr

Dahntey Jones
6 teams in 10 yrs

Brandan Wright
3 teams in 6 yrs

Jae Crowder
34th Selection in 2012 NBA Draft

Josh Smith will Easily get paid Big Bucks or get Real value in a trade because that is his market value and because players with his overall production are Rarely on the market

No one is arguing that he won't be paid big $$$, he will be. He was not worth trading more than what was offered in the reported deal though for less than half a season rental of a player who has never made an all-star team and is going to enter his 10th year in the league next year.

Also, whether or not the celtics should even consider giving him big $$$ for a long term deal is a very valid argument. He's not worth tying up cap space to build around. He's not worth it if you want the team to contend. Some small market team that needs a player to sell tickets and knows they will not contend will give him the money though.

 He will put up nice numbers for a few years on a poor team until his athleticism goes an he  pouts even more than he does now and begins relying completely on poor outside shooting.

Very few players ever get to the mkt with Josh Smith's production...4 of the above 6 were never traded...of the 2 that made it to the mkt place and were traded...Big Al netted KG and the Lee netted Anthony Randolph, Ronny Turiaf and Kelenna Azubuike...which is as bad as Dahntey Jones/6 teams in 10 yrs, Brandan Wright/3 teams in 6 yrs and Jae Crowder/34th Selection in 2012 NBA Draft...Danny Ferry cut his teeth with the Spurs and almost built a champion in Cle...he will be shooting for as close as possible to a Big Al/KG trade...he will be patient and hold out to the end...ala DH last year...he will not accept spare parts and will not be desperate and act foolishly and hastily...which is a total knee-jerk reaction succumbing to pressure...he will easily do better than Dahntey Jones/6 teams in 10 yrs, Brandan Wright/3 teams in 6 yrs and Jae Crowder/34th Selection in 2012 NBA Draft......guaranteed...

As I said before, Tyson Chandler "netted" Ronnie Turiaf and a 2nd round pick from the Knicks in a trade. He was in a very similar position to Josh Smith, as he had never been an all-star but was in the league for almost 10 years. He hit the market as a FA and in a sign and trade, the Mavs got basically "spare parts"

The point is, Ferry has zero leverage. He can't demand much of anything of value in return for Smith at this stage. He missed his chance on that last year. Smith is an unrestricted FA in a couple of months. Ferry can't stop him from leaving and having the Hawks get nothing in return. Anything they get in a sign and trade is a bonus, and will be "spare parts" and a mediocre pick or two to please Smith's agent and let them get at least something.

[rutzan]

Josh Smith / 2012 to 2013 / 9th yr
17.4 pts
8.6 rebs
4.3 assts
2.0 blks
1.2 stls

Antoine Walker's 9th season at the trade deadline that year:

20.4 points
9.4 rebounds
3.7 assists
0.6 blocks
1.2 steals

Looks very similar to Josh Smith's stats at the same point in their careers.

Is that who we should spend big bucks on to build around?

i never said that...never...ever...never...ever...i never advocated trading for josh smith...never ...ever...never...ever...although i would consider it...i will repeat it once again...for the umpteenth time...Ferry will easily do better than Dahntey Jones/6 teams in 10 yrs, Brandan Wright/3 teams in 6 yrs and Jae Crowder/34th Selection in 2012 NBA Draft......guaranteed...please do your self a favor and re-read the whole post...it is actually very irritating to be mis-quoted..because...that means one did not take the time to read what is written...why...i have no clue...it is beyond me...

[hpantazo]

Josh Smith / 2012 to 2013 / 9th yr
17.4 pts
8.6 rebs
4.3 assts
2.0 blks
1.2 stls

Antoine Walker's 9th season at the trade deadline that year:

20.4 points
9.4 rebounds
3.7 assists
0.6 blocks
1.2 steals

Looks very similar to Josh Smith's stats at the same point in their careers.

Is that who we should spend big bucks on to build around?

i never said that...never...ever...never...ever...i never advocated trading for josh smith...never ...ever...never...ever...although i would consider it...i will repeat it once again...for the umpteenth time...Ferry will easily do better than Dahntey Jones/6 teams in 10 yrs, Brandan Wright/3 teams in 6 yrs and Jae Crowder/34th Selection in 2012 NBA Draft......guaranteed...please do your self a favor and re-read the whole post...it is actually very irritating to be mis-quoted..because...that means one did not take the time to read what is written...why...i have no clue...it is beyond me...

I'm glad you don't advocate for the celtics trading for Smith, but why do you value him so highly? Ferry lost all leverage when he failed to trade him last year. He can't demand anything in return at this point. There is no reason to think he can do better than what was offered.

btw, Jae Crowder is a very good young player. Brendan Wright is a sold young big man who unfortunately looks like Mark Blount. Jones is there for cap relief.

[rutzan]

Josh Smith / 2012 to 2013 / 9th yr
17.4 pts
8.6 rebs
4.3 assts
2.0 blks
1.2 stls

21st in rebs in the NBA
Only 6 of the players have scored more pts
One of those players has scored 4 more pts ( Greg Monroe )
One of those players has scored 6 more pts ( Al Horford )
Only 2 of those 6 players has more stls ( Blake Griffin & Greg Monroe )
Not one of the 6 players has more assts
Not one of the 6 players has more blks
Only 2 of those 6 players were ever traded ( Al Jefferson & David Lee )

Those 6 players are:

LaMarcus Aldridge / 2013 All-Star / 2-Time All-Star / 6th yr in the NBA / $15.7M per yr
Blake Griffin / 2013 All-Star / 3-Time All-Star / 3rd yr in the NBA / $5.7M per yr
Al Jefferson / 9th yr in the NBA / $14M per yr
Al Horford / 2-Time All-Star / 6th yr in the NBA / $12M per yr
Greg Monroe / 3rd yr in the NBA / $4m per yr
David Lee / 2013 All-Star / 2-Time All-Star / 8th yr in the NBA / $15.5M per yr

Dahntey Jones
6 teams in 10 yrs

Brandan Wright
3 teams in 6 yrs

Jae Crowder
34th Selection in 2012 NBA Draft

Josh Smith will Easily get paid Big Bucks or get Real value in a trade because that is his market value and because players with his overall production are Rarely on the market

No one is arguing that he won't be paid big $$$, he will be. He was not worth trading more than what was offered in the reported deal though for less than half a season rental of a player who has never made an all-star team and is going to enter his 10th year in the league next year.

Also, whether or not the celtics should even consider giving him big $$$ for a long term deal is a very valid argument. He's not worth tying up cap space to build around. He's not worth it if you want the team to contend. Some small market team that needs a player to sell tickets and knows they will not contend will give him the money though.

 He will put up nice numbers for a few years on a poor team until his athleticism goes an he  pouts even more than he does now and begins relying completely on poor outside shooting.

Very few players ever get to the mkt with Josh Smith's production...4 of the above 6 were never traded...of the 2 that made it to the mkt place and were traded...Big Al netted KG and the Lee netted Anthony Randolph, Ronny Turiaf and Kelenna Azubuike...which is as bad as Dahntey Jones/6 teams in 10 yrs, Brandan Wright/3 teams in 6 yrs and Jae Crowder/34th Selection in 2012 NBA Draft...Danny Ferry cut his teeth with the Spurs and almost built a champion in Cle...he will be shooting for as close as possible to a Big Al/KG trade...he will be patient and hold out to the end...ala DH last year...he will not accept spare parts and will not be desperate and act foolishly and hastily...which is a total knee-jerk reaction succumbing to pressure...he will easily do better than Dahntey Jones/6 teams in 10 yrs, Brandan Wright/3 teams in 6 yrs and Jae Crowder/34th Selection in 2012 NBA Draft......guaranteed...

As I said before, Tyson Chandler "netted" Ronnie Turiaf and a 2nd round pick from the Knicks in a trade. He was in a very similar position to Josh Smith, as he had never been an all-star but was in the league for almost 10 years. He hit the market as a FA and in a sign and trade, the Mavs got basically "spare parts"

The point is, Ferry has zero leverage. He can't demand much of anything of value in return for Smith at this stage. He missed his chance on that last year. Smith is an unrestricted FA in a couple of months. Ferry can't stop him from leaving and having the Hawks get nothing in return. Anything they get in a sign and trade is a bonus, and will be "spare parts" and a mediocre pick or two to please Smith's agent and let them get at least something.

Ronny Turiaf, cash considerations and a 2013 second-round draft

it's very convenient to leave out the fact that the mav's strategy was to clear cap space for DH and Deron Williams...but...i guess that is irrelevant...

[hpantazo]

Josh Smith / 2012 to 2013 / 9th yr
17.4 pts
8.6 rebs
4.3 assts
2.0 blks
1.2 stls

21st in rebs in the NBA
Only 6 of the players have scored more pts
One of those players has scored 4 more pts ( Greg Monroe )
One of those players has scored 6 more pts ( Al Horford )
Only 2 of those 6 players has more stls ( Blake Griffin & Greg Monroe )
Not one of the 6 players has more assts
Not one of the 6 players has more blks
Only 2 of those 6 players were ever traded ( Al Jefferson & David Lee )

Those 6 players are:

LaMarcus Aldridge / 2013 All-Star / 2-Time All-Star / 6th yr in the NBA / $15.7M per yr
Blake Griffin / 2013 All-Star / 3-Time All-Star / 3rd yr in the NBA / $5.7M per yr
Al Jefferson / 9th yr in the NBA / $14M per yr
Al Horford / 2-Time All-Star / 6th yr in the NBA / $12M per yr
Greg Monroe / 3rd yr in the NBA / $4m per yr
David Lee / 2013 All-Star / 2-Time All-Star / 8th yr in the NBA / $15.5M per yr

Dahntey Jones
6 teams in 10 yrs

Brandan Wright
3 teams in 6 yrs

Jae Crowder
34th Selection in 2012 NBA Draft

Josh Smith will Easily get paid Big Bucks or get Real value in a trade because that is his market value and because players with his overall production are Rarely on the market

No one is arguing that he won't be paid big $$$, he will be. He was not worth trading more than what was offered in the reported deal though for less than half a season rental of a player who has never made an all-star team and is going to enter his 10th year in the league next year.

Also, whether or not the celtics should even consider giving him big $$$ for a long term deal is a very valid argument. He's not worth tying up cap space to build around. He's not worth it if you want the team to contend. Some small market team that needs a player to sell tickets and knows they will not contend will give him the money though.

 He will put up nice numbers for a few years on a poor team until his athleticism goes an he  pouts even more than he does now and begins relying completely on poor outside shooting.

Very few players ever get to the mkt with Josh Smith's production...4 of the above 6 were never traded...of the 2 that made it to the mkt place and were traded...Big Al netted KG and the Lee netted Anthony Randolph, Ronny Turiaf and Kelenna Azubuike...which is as bad as Dahntey Jones/6 teams in 10 yrs, Brandan Wright/3 teams in 6 yrs and Jae Crowder/34th Selection in 2012 NBA Draft...Danny Ferry cut his teeth with the Spurs and almost built a champion in Cle...he will be shooting for as close as possible to a Big Al/KG trade...he will be patient and hold out to the end...ala DH last year...he will not accept spare parts and will not be desperate and act foolishly and hastily...which is a total knee-jerk reaction succumbing to pressure...he will easily do better than Dahntey Jones/6 teams in 10 yrs, Brandan Wright/3 teams in 6 yrs and Jae Crowder/34th Selection in 2012 NBA Draft......guaranteed...

As I said before, Tyson Chandler "netted" Ronnie Turiaf and a 2nd round pick from the Knicks in a trade. He was in a very similar position to Josh Smith, as he had never been an all-star but was in the league for almost 10 years. He hit the market as a FA and in a sign and trade, the Mavs got basically "spare parts"

The point is, Ferry has zero leverage. He can't demand much of anything of value in return for Smith at this stage. He missed his chance on that last year. Smith is an unrestricted FA in a couple of months. Ferry can't stop him from leaving and having the Hawks get nothing in return. Anything they get in a sign and trade is a bonus, and will be "spare parts" and a mediocre pick or two to please Smith's agent and let them get at least something.

Ronny Turiaf, cash considerations and a 2013 second-round draft

it's very convenient to leave out the fact that the mav's strategy was to clear cap space for DH and Deron Williams...but...i guess that is irrelevant...

it is irrelevant, the mavs had no leverage to demand anything more in return. Chandler was going to sign with N Y anyway, the same way Smith will sign somewhere else regardless of what Ferry does. You cannot ignore that fact and pretend Ferry has some sort of leverage anymore. He lost his chance.

Anyway, I didn't see Deron and D12 playing for the mavs this year, was that their only strategy?

[SHAQATTACK]

Smith is a great player with huge skills.

But , he lacks the heart of a champion IMO.  Does stupid plays , not worth a max contract.

He needs DOC, KG and PP all there to keep him focused .

Already have Rondo with the big head ,  having Smith would be too much with Rondo., too much of the same thing is bad.

Trade Rondo for Horford ......so the two love birds can be together.

[BballTim]

Josh Smith / 2012 to 2013 / 9th yr
17.4 pts
8.6 rebs
4.3 assts
2.0 blks
1.2 stls

Antoine Walker's 9th season at the trade deadline that year:

20.4 points
9.4 rebounds
3.7 assists
0.6 blocks
1.2 steals

Looks very similar to Josh Smith's stats at the same point in their careers.

Is that who we should spend big bucks on to build around?

i never said that...never...ever...never...ever...i never advocated trading for josh smith...never ...ever...never...ever...although i would consider it...i will repeat it once again...for the umpteenth time...Ferry will easily do better than Dahntey Jones/6 teams in 10 yrs, Brandan Wright/3 teams in 6 yrs and Jae Crowder/34th Selection in 2012 NBA Draft......guaranteed...please do your self a favor and re-read the whole post...it is actually very irritating to be mis-quoted..because...that means one did not take the time to read what is written...why...i have no clue...it is beyond me...

  Isn't Smith a free agent? How is he going to bring great value in a trade?

[hpantazo]

Josh Smith / 2012 to 2013 / 9th yr
17.4 pts
8.6 rebs
4.3 assts
2.0 blks
1.2 stls

Antoine Walker's 9th season at the trade deadline that year:

20.4 points
9.4 rebounds
3.7 assists
0.6 blocks
1.2 steals

Looks very similar to Josh Smith's stats at the same point in their careers.

Is that who we should spend big bucks on to build around?

i never said that...never...ever...never...ever...i never advocated trading for josh smith...never ...ever...never...ever...although i would consider it...i will repeat it once again...for the umpteenth time...Ferry will easily do better than Dahntey Jones/6 teams in 10 yrs, Brandan Wright/3 teams in 6 yrs and Jae Crowder/34th Selection in 2012 NBA Draft......guaranteed...please do your self a favor and re-read the whole post...it is actually very irritating to be mis-quoted..because...that means one did not take the time to read what is written...why...i have no clue...it is beyond me...

  Isn't Smith a free agent? How is he going to bring great value in a trade?

exactly