How's my Historical Team? (Awesome right!)

[Bahku]

AI is who AI is.


He has never successfully shared an offense with another top offensive player.  (don't tell me Denver because that team became so much better when they replaced him with Billups)



He is unbelievably selfish.  He quit on two teams because he was not happy with his starting position or the number of touches he was receiving.  And this was when his skills were diminishing. 



You are asking in his prime AI to share?  Not going to happen.  The evidence that is his career says he will not.  (or he will quit if the ball is put in someone else's hands.)

ANY good PG or SG wants the ball in his hands, and AI was no more Unbeleivably selfish than Michael, Rajon, Deron, or any player asked to lead an offense to the best of his abilities.

Why would ANY good guard be happy when getting fewer touches or less time at the point? Makes no sense.

[Rondo2287]

If you're making a statistical argument for AI you can't discount his high turnovers and his lousy FG% / efficiency.

Actually, high trunover rates are common with most players who pass the ball a great deal, as is evident with almost any other prominent PG or SG of our time, (AI's TO rate: 3.6/game for his career, Magic Johnson's: 3.9). Turnover rate really just supports the fact that he was a passer.

Except the year you picked where he averaged 7.9 assists and 4.6 turnovers a game

The year that Magic averaged his highest assists per game, he also averaged 4.6 TO

[wdleehi]

And his assist to TO ratio for his career is 1.7.

6.2 assists
3.6 turnovers

[wdleehi]

If you're making a statistical argument for AI you can't discount his high turnovers and his lousy FG% / efficiency.

Actually, high trunover rates are common with most players who pass the ball a great deal, as is evident with almost any other prominent PG or SG of our time, (AI's TO rate: 3.6/game for his career, Magic Johnson's: 3.9). Turnover rate really just supports the fact that he was a passer.

Except the year you picked where he averaged 7.9 assists and 4.6 turnovers a game

The year that Magic averaged his highest assists per game, he also averaged 4.6 TO

But he averaged 13 assists a game vs. 7.9

[Rondo2287]

Question, if running two seperate offenses in Denver makes AI selfish, and the poster child for "Me first basketball".  What does forcing a guy that coached 23 seasons with the same team to resign, and forcing out a teams head coach and GM make Dwight and Deron?

[Rondo2287]

If you're making a statistical argument for AI you can't discount his high turnovers and his lousy FG% / efficiency.

Actually, high trunover rates are common with most players who pass the ball a great deal, as is evident with almost any other prominent PG or SG of our time, (AI's TO rate: 3.6/game for his career, Magic Johnson's: 3.9). Turnover rate really just supports the fact that he was a passer.

Except the year you picked where he averaged 7.9 assists and 4.6 turnovers a game

The year that Magic averaged his highest assists per game, he also averaged 4.6 TO

But he averaged 13 assists a game vs. 7.9

But he also averaged about 50% of the points that AI did.

[wdleehi]

Question, if running two seperate offenses in Denver makes AI selfish, and the poster child for "Me first basketball".  What does forcing a guy that coached 23 seasons with the same team to resign, and forcing out a teams head coach and GM make Dwight and Deron?

Magic Johnson forced out a coach

Jordon forced out a coach.


Is this a new thing for top line players?  


Does anyone blame Howard for being unhappy with the basketball minds that put that team around him?  Trading for Gilbert?  Bring back Hedo?  Overpaying aging role players?

[Bahku]

If you're making a statistical argument for AI you can't discount his high turnovers and his lousy FG% / efficiency.

Actually, high trunover rates are common with most players who pass the ball a great deal, as is evident with almost any other prominent PG or SG of our time, (AI's TO rate: 3.6/game for his career, Magic Johnson's: 3.9). Turnover rate really just supports the fact that he was a passer.

An assist to turnover ratio of 7.9 : 4.6 is very bad, though.

But weren't we talking about his willingness to share the ball?

Besides, if Rondo were scoring 30.7 points/game, I think we'd all live with a bit higher turnover-to-assist ratio.

[wdleehi]

If you're making a statistical argument for AI you can't discount his high turnovers and his lousy FG% / efficiency.

Actually, high trunover rates are common with most players who pass the ball a great deal, as is evident with almost any other prominent PG or SG of our time, (AI's TO rate: 3.6/game for his career, Magic Johnson's: 3.9). Turnover rate really just supports the fact that he was a passer.

Except the year you picked where he averaged 7.9 assists and 4.6 turnovers a game

The year that Magic averaged his highest assists per game, he also averaged 4.6 TO

But he averaged 13 assists a game vs. 7.9

But he also averaged about 50% of the points that AI did.

Because he was an actual PG that played a team game.  He could score more points if he wanted to.  But he didn't have to.  He did what was best to win.  


AI played for his own stats.  

[wdleehi]

If you're making a statistical argument for AI you can't discount his high turnovers and his lousy FG% / efficiency.

Actually, high trunover rates are common with most players who pass the ball a great deal, as is evident with almost any other prominent PG or SG of our time, (AI's TO rate: 3.6/game for his career, Magic Johnson's: 3.9). Turnover rate really just supports the fact that he was a passer.

An assist to turnover ratio of 7.9 : 4.6 is very bad, though.

But weren't we talking about his willingness to share the ball?

Besides, if Rondo were scoring 30.7 points/game, I think we'd all live with a bit higher turnover-to-assist ratio.

We would be upset because the Celtics have shown to be a better team when Rondo is passing the ball versus trying to be a volume scorer. 


Not to mention AI is no where close to the passer Rondo is.

[Rondo2287]

Question, if running two seperate offenses in Denver makes AI selfish, and the poster child for "Me first basketball".  What does forcing a guy that coached 23 seasons with the same team to resign, and forcing out a teams head coach and GM make Dwight and Deron?

Magic Johnson forced out a coach

Jordon forced out a coach.


Is this a new thing for top line players?  


Does anyone blame Howard for being unhappy with the basketball minds that put that team around him?  Trading for Gilbert?  Bring back Hedo?  Overpaying aging role players?

Jerry Sloan and SVG are two of the best coaches in the NBA over the past 10 years, Jerry for longer than that.  They didnt force them out because of lack of success or ability, its becuase they are both selfish diva's.

Also from most reports Dwight asked for those players around him. 

[wdleehi]

Question, if running two seperate offenses in Denver makes AI selfish, and the poster child for "Me first basketball".  What does forcing a guy that coached 23 seasons with the same team to resign, and forcing out a teams head coach and GM make Dwight and Deron?

Magic Johnson forced out a coach

Jordon forced out a coach.


Is this a new thing for top line players?  


Does anyone blame Howard for being unhappy with the basketball minds that put that team around him?  Trading for Gilbert?  Bring back Hedo?  Overpaying aging role players?

Jerry Sloan and SVG are two of the best coaches in the NBA over the past 10 years, Jerry for longer than that.  They didnt force them out because of lack of success or ability, its becuase they are both selfish diva's.

Also from most reports Dwight asked for those players around him. 

Isn't this the 2nd time Stan has been forced out?


This is why I am make the player choices, not Dwight. 

[StartOrien]

Question, if running two seperate offenses in Denver makes AI selfish, and the poster child for "Me first basketball".  What does forcing a guy that coached 23 seasons with the same team to resign, and forcing out a teams head coach and GM make Dwight and Deron?

Magic Johnson forced out a coach

Jordon forced out a coach.


Is this a new thing for top line players?  


Does anyone blame Howard for being unhappy with the basketball minds that put that team around him?  Trading for Gilbert?  Bring back Hedo?  Overpaying aging role players?

Jerry Sloan and SVG are two of the best coaches in the NBA over the past 10 years, Jerry for longer than that.  They didnt force them out because of lack of success or ability, its becuase they are both selfish diva's.

Also from most reports Dwight asked for those players around him.  

In my mind, what separates their cases is that it didn't appear to effect their abilities on-court.

AND as pointed out, there was only 'beef' when things were going poorly for them. I guess you could factor this in if you view the respected teams they're on (I haven't looked at the roster), but I don't see it impacting rankings that much - if the team is bad, maybe they'll be slightly worse

EDIT: Also, who are your sources, Rondo? Dwight never EVER asked for SVG's dismissal. Dats ignorance

[Rondo2287]

Question, if running two seperate offenses in Denver makes AI selfish, and the poster child for "Me first basketball".  What does forcing a guy that coached 23 seasons with the same team to resign, and forcing out a teams head coach and GM make Dwight and Deron?

Magic Johnson forced out a coach

Jordon forced out a coach.


Is this a new thing for top line players?  


Does anyone blame Howard for being unhappy with the basketball minds that put that team around him?  Trading for Gilbert?  Bring back Hedo?  Overpaying aging role players?

Jerry Sloan and SVG are two of the best coaches in the NBA over the past 10 years, Jerry for longer than that.  They didnt force them out because of lack of success or ability, its becuase they are both selfish diva's.

Also from most reports Dwight asked for those players around him. 

Isn't this the 2nd time Stan has been forced out?


This is why I am make the player choices, not Dwight. 

But what happens when dwight starts to pout when he doesnt have his Binkies around and he demands you trade for them?

[wdleehi]

Question, if running two seperate offenses in Denver makes AI selfish, and the poster child for "Me first basketball".  What does forcing a guy that coached 23 seasons with the same team to resign, and forcing out a teams head coach and GM make Dwight and Deron?

Magic Johnson forced out a coach

Jordon forced out a coach.


Is this a new thing for top line players?  


Does anyone blame Howard for being unhappy with the basketball minds that put that team around him?  Trading for Gilbert?  Bring back Hedo?  Overpaying aging role players?

Jerry Sloan and SVG are two of the best coaches in the NBA over the past 10 years, Jerry for longer than that.  They didnt force them out because of lack of success or ability, its becuase they are both selfish diva's.

Also from most reports Dwight asked for those players around him. 

Isn't this the 2nd time Stan has been forced out?


This is why I am make the player choices, not Dwight. 

But what happens when dwight starts to pout when he doesnt have his Binkies around and he demands you trade for them?

I don't have to worry about that.  I built a team around him that is going to win.