How's my Historical Team? (Awesome right!)

[wdleehi]

Ive got a PG who has the length and athleticism to guard Penny Straight up



Yes, thats a PG and C standing next to eachother.

Size, yes.


Defensive skills, not that I ever saw.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Ive got a PG who has the length and athleticism to guard Penny Straight up



Yes, thats a PG and C standing next to eachother.

I'm not sure about Livingston's defensive capabilities.

[Rondo2287]

Ive got a PG who has the length and athleticism to guard Penny Straight up



Yes, thats a PG and C standing next to eachother.

Size, yes.


Defensive skills, not that I ever saw.

How many 05-06 clipper games did you watch?  I watched 95% because my college roomate was a diehard clips fan and bought league pass.  He was pretty dominant that season defensively with his ball pressure and disruptive abilities on opposing PG's.  

Edit: didnt mean the 95% thing to come off as a jerkish statement, I just watched wayyyy to many clipper games that year haha

[Bahku]

I like the Nuggets in that matchup. 


You can't win this if your team doesn't play a team offense, and AI (who will have the ball in his hands) does not play team ball.  There is just to much offensive and defensive talent out there.

Well, glad we can get past this generalization right off the bat, as it's seemingly the a very popular view around here and other blogs when it comes to Iverson.

I watched Allen all through college and his NBA career, and never did I see a selfish player, a "ball-hog", or a guy not willing to involve his team-mates on the floor, or a guy not playing "team ball".

I see and hear this generalization all over, generally blog posts, (as he's become one of the favs to disparage), and all I can realistically attribute it to is applying a hoops reason, (one not backed up by facts), to just plain not liking the guy as a personality, primarily due to his troubles off the court.

Oh, those reservations are understandable, as I have them too, but when assessing players, especially in these fantasy drafts, I try to do so on their abilities and accomplishments on the court, not how I feel about them personally. I mean, I could call Michael Jordan a ball-hog for the same reasons, or Kobe Bryant, as they both averaged fewer assists per game than Iverson.

Not saying that's how you feel, just that I've seen a lot of this kind of sentiment, yet it's not what I saw from Iverson at all, especially the year I picked him in, whe n he averaged 7.9 assists per game, which would earn him around third-place in the entire NBA today, (even with Chris Paul's average this year).

I've grown up with the NBA and started watching in the early sixties with my Dad, and I can say honestly that Allen Iverson is one of the most dominating offensive players I've ever seen, in creating his shot, penetrating almost any defense at will, and passing the ball and finding his team-mates when and where they needed it most.

Again, I understand the whole negative perception of the guy and his off-court troubles, where it comes from, but I just do not subscribe to the whole ball-hog thing, and I've yet to have anyone successfully prove it to me. I'm almost positive that Coach Brown and Coach Thompson feel the same, because they've said so more than once.

That's as first-hand as you're going to get as far as a true assessment of the guy and his willingness to share the ball ... that and having watched him myself for years. I'm sorry, but you can't be a ball-hog and average 7.9 assists per game, (6.2 for his entire NBA career, which is way above the curve).

[wdleehi]

I like the Nuggets in that matchup. 


You can't win this if your team doesn't play a team offense, and AI (who will have the ball in his hands) does not play team ball.  There is just to much offensive and defensive talent out there.

Well, glad we can get past this generalization right off the bat, as it's seemingly the a very popular view around here and other blogs when it comes to Iverson.

I watched Allen all through college and his NBA career, and never did I see a selfish player, a "ball-hog", or a guy not willing to involve his team-mates on the floor, or a guy not playing "team ball".

I see and hear this generalization all over, generally blog posts, (as he's become one of the favs to disparage), and all I can realistically attribute it to is applying a hoops reason, (one not backed up by facts), to just plain not liking the guy as a personality, primarily due to his troubles off the court.

Oh, those reservations are understandable, as I have them too, but when assessing players, especially in these fantasy drafts, I try to do so on their abilities and accomplishments on the court, not how I feel about them personally. I mean, I could call Michael Jordan a ball-hog for the same reasons, or Kobe Bryant, as they both averaged fewer assists per game than Iverson.

Not saying that's how you feel, just that I've seen a lot of this kind of sentiment, yet it's not what I saw from Iverson at all, especially the year I picked him in, whe n he averaged 7.9 assists per game, which would earn him around third-place in the entire NBA today, (even with Chris Paul's average this year).

I've grown up with the NBA and started watching in the early sixties with my Dad, and I can say honestly that Allen Iverson is one of the most dominating offensive players I've ever seen, in creating his shot, penetrating almost any defense at will, and passing the ball and finding his team-mates when and where they needed it most.

Again, I understand the whole negative perception of the guy and his off-court troubles, where it comes from, but I just do not subscribe to the whole ball-hog thing, and I've yet to have anyone successfully prove it to me. I'm almost positive that Coach Brown and Coach Thompson feel the same, because they've said so more than once.

That's as first-hand as you're going to get as far as a true assessment of the guy and his willingness to share the ball ... that and having watched him myself for years. I'm sorry, but you can't be a ball-hog and average 7.9 assists per game, (6.2 for his entire NBA career, which is way above the curve).

I was living in Philly during the AI years. 


He didn't share the ball.  The only way the team was successful was when Larry Brown surround him with guys that would play hard defense even if they were not involved in the offense.


Do you see Amare doing that?  What's the point of Richmond if he doesn't get his shots? 



AI is all about I.  Best comment ever came after Webber came to town.  In one game, Webber actually had the chance to score.  This was AI comment "See it can work.  He got his 20 and I got my 20"


In Denver, it was like watching two different offenses.  There was the Melo offense.  There was the AI offense.  Rarely the two would mix. 



So in a league so packed with offensive and defensive talent, an AI lead team has no chance.

[Bahku]

I like the Nuggets in that matchup. 


You can't win this if your team doesn't play a team offense, and AI (who will have the ball in his hands) does not play team ball.  There is just to much offensive and defensive talent out there.

Well, glad we can get past this generalization right off the bat, as it's seemingly the a very popular view around here and other blogs when it comes to Iverson.

I watched Allen all through college and his NBA career, and never did I see a selfish player, a "ball-hog", or a guy not willing to involve his team-mates on the floor, or a guy not playing "team ball".

I see and hear this generalization all over, generally blog posts, (as he's become one of the favs to disparage), and all I can realistically attribute it to is applying a hoops reason, (one not backed up by facts), to just plain not liking the guy as a personality, primarily due to his troubles off the court.

Oh, those reservations are understandable, as I have them too, but when assessing players, especially in these fantasy drafts, I try to do so on their abilities and accomplishments on the court, not how I feel about them personally. I mean, I could call Michael Jordan a ball-hog for the same reasons, or Kobe Bryant, as they both averaged fewer assists per game than Iverson.

Not saying that's how you feel, just that I've seen a lot of this kind of sentiment, yet it's not what I saw from Iverson at all, especially the year I picked him in, whe n he averaged 7.9 assists per game, which would earn him around third-place in the entire NBA today, (even with Chris Paul's average this year).

I've grown up with the NBA and started watching in the early sixties with my Dad, and I can say honestly that Allen Iverson is one of the most dominating offensive players I've ever seen, in creating his shot, penetrating almost any defense at will, and passing the ball and finding his team-mates when and where they needed it most.

Again, I understand the whole negative perception of the guy and his off-court troubles, where it comes from, but I just do not subscribe to the whole ball-hog thing, and I've yet to have anyone successfully prove it to me. I'm almost positive that Coach Brown and Coach Thompson feel the same, because they've said so more than once.

That's as first-hand as you're going to get as far as a true assessment of the guy and his willingness to share the ball ... that and having watched him myself for years. I'm sorry, but you can't be a ball-hog and average 7.9 assists per game, (6.2 for his entire NBA career, which is way above the curve).

I was living in Philly during the AI years. 


He didn't share the ball.  The only way the team was successful was when Larry Brown surround him with guys that would play hard defense even if they were not involved in the offense.


Do you see Amare doing that?  What's the point of Richmond if he doesn't get his shots? 



AI is all about I.  Best comment ever came after Webber came to town.  In one game, Webber actually had the chance to score.  This was AI comment "See it can work.  He got his 20 and I got my 20"


In Denver, it was like watching two different offenses.  There was the Melo offense.  There was the AI offense.  Rarely the two would mix. 



So in a league so packed with offensive and defensive talent, an AI lead team has no chance.

Yeah, this is the same stuff I've heard over-and-over, yet I've never seen the game tape or stats or heard from a former coach to back it up ... even his time on the Olympic squad was not remotely that of a player not willing to pass the ball. Please explain 7.9 assist/game, (or even 6.2 career), from a "ball-hog". 

[StartOrien]

Welp, don't really want to discuss anything else on this site right now so let me bump this one.

[StartOrien]

My team is better than your guys' teams cuz I said so and I'm still angry

[wdleehi]

I like the Nuggets in that matchup. 


You can't win this if your team doesn't play a team offense, and AI (who will have the ball in his hands) does not play team ball.  There is just to much offensive and defensive talent out there.

Well, glad we can get past this generalization right off the bat, as it's seemingly the a very popular view around here and other blogs when it comes to Iverson.

I watched Allen all through college and his NBA career, and never did I see a selfish player, a "ball-hog", or a guy not willing to involve his team-mates on the floor, or a guy not playing "team ball".

I see and hear this generalization all over, generally blog posts, (as he's become one of the favs to disparage), and all I can realistically attribute it to is applying a hoops reason, (one not backed up by facts), to just plain not liking the guy as a personality, primarily due to his troubles off the court.

Oh, those reservations are understandable, as I have them too, but when assessing players, especially in these fantasy drafts, I try to do so on their abilities and accomplishments on the court, not how I feel about them personally. I mean, I could call Michael Jordan a ball-hog for the same reasons, or Kobe Bryant, as they both averaged fewer assists per game than Iverson.

Not saying that's how you feel, just that I've seen a lot of this kind of sentiment, yet it's not what I saw from Iverson at all, especially the year I picked him in, whe n he averaged 7.9 assists per game, which would earn him around third-place in the entire NBA today, (even with Chris Paul's average this year).

I've grown up with the NBA and started watching in the early sixties with my Dad, and I can say honestly that Allen Iverson is one of the most dominating offensive players I've ever seen, in creating his shot, penetrating almost any defense at will, and passing the ball and finding his team-mates when and where they needed it most.

Again, I understand the whole negative perception of the guy and his off-court troubles, where it comes from, but I just do not subscribe to the whole ball-hog thing, and I've yet to have anyone successfully prove it to me. I'm almost positive that Coach Brown and Coach Thompson feel the same, because they've said so more than once.

That's as first-hand as you're going to get as far as a true assessment of the guy and his willingness to share the ball ... that and having watched him myself for years. I'm sorry, but you can't be a ball-hog and average 7.9 assists per game, (6.2 for his entire NBA career, which is way above the curve).

I was living in Philly during the AI years. 


He didn't share the ball.  The only way the team was successful was when Larry Brown surround him with guys that would play hard defense even if they were not involved in the offense.


Do you see Amare doing that?  What's the point of Richmond if he doesn't get his shots? 



AI is all about I.  Best comment ever came after Webber came to town.  In one game, Webber actually had the chance to score.  This was AI comment "See it can work.  He got his 20 and I got my 20"


In Denver, it was like watching two different offenses.  There was the Melo offense.  There was the AI offense.  Rarely the two would mix. 



So in a league so packed with offensive and defensive talent, an AI lead team has no chance.

Yeah, this is the same stuff I've heard over-and-over, yet I've never seen the game tape or stats or heard from a former coach to back it up ... even his time on the Olympic squad was not remotely that of a player not willing to pass the ball. Please explain 7.9 assist/game, (or even 6.2 career), from a "ball-hog". 

And if you watched him play, those assists came because the ball was in his hands at all times.  He only passed when the clock was running down and he could throw up even a bad shot.  



AI is the poster boy for "all about me" player.

[Bahku]

I like the Nuggets in that matchup.  


You can't win this if your team doesn't play a team offense, and AI (who will have the ball in his hands) does not play team ball.  There is just to much offensive and defensive talent out there.

Well, glad we can get past this generalization right off the bat, as it's seemingly the a very popular view around here and other blogs when it comes to Iverson.

I watched Allen all through college and his NBA career, and never did I see a selfish player, a "ball-hog", or a guy not willing to involve his team-mates on the floor, or a guy not playing "team ball".

I see and hear this generalization all over, generally blog posts, (as he's become one of the favs to disparage), and all I can realistically attribute it to is applying a hoops reason, (one not backed up by facts), to just plain not liking the guy as a personality, primarily due to his troubles off the court.

Oh, those reservations are understandable, as I have them too, but when assessing players, especially in these fantasy drafts, I try to do so on their abilities and accomplishments on the court, not how I feel about them personally. I mean, I could call Michael Jordan a ball-hog for the same reasons, or Kobe Bryant, as they both averaged fewer assists per game than Iverson.

Not saying that's how you feel, just that I've seen a lot of this kind of sentiment, yet it's not what I saw from Iverson at all, especially the year I picked him in, whe n he averaged 7.9 assists per game, which would earn him around third-place in the entire NBA today, (even with Chris Paul's average this year).

I've grown up with the NBA and started watching in the early sixties with my Dad, and I can say honestly that Allen Iverson is one of the most dominating offensive players I've ever seen, in creating his shot, penetrating almost any defense at will, and passing the ball and finding his team-mates when and where they needed it most.

Again, I understand the whole negative perception of the guy and his off-court troubles, where it comes from, but I just do not subscribe to the whole ball-hog thing, and I've yet to have anyone successfully prove it to me. I'm almost positive that Coach Brown and Coach Thompson feel the same, because they've said so more than once.

That's as first-hand as you're going to get as far as a true assessment of the guy and his willingness to share the ball ... that and having watched him myself for years. I'm sorry, but you can't be a ball-hog and average 7.9 assists per game, (6.2 for his entire NBA career, which is way above the curve).

I was living in Philly during the AI years.  


He didn't share the ball.  The only way the team was successful was when Larry Brown surround him with guys that would play hard defense even if they were not involved in the offense.


Do you see Amare doing that?  What's the point of Richmond if he doesn't get his shots?  



AI is all about I.  Best comment ever came after Webber came to town.  In one game, Webber actually had the chance to score.  This was AI comment "See it can work.  He got his 20 and I got my 20"


In Denver, it was like watching two different offenses.  There was the Melo offense.  There was the AI offense.  Rarely the two would mix.  



So in a league so packed with offensive and defensive talent, an AI lead team has no chance.

Yeah, this is the same stuff I've heard over-and-over, yet I've never seen the game tape or stats or heard from a former coach to back it up ... even his time on the Olympic squad was not remotely that of a player not willing to pass the ball. Please explain 7.9 assist/game, (or even 6.2 career), from a "ball-hog".  

And if you watched him play, those assists came because the ball was in his hands at all times.  He only passed when the clock was running down and he could throw up even a bad shot.  



AI is the poster boy for "all about me" player.

The ball wasn't in his hands anymore than any good guard's ... the ball should be in the guard's hands most of the time, and assists don't come from accidental offense or ball-hogs, they come from good passing and a willingness to share the ball.

Nope.

Sorry, just no more proof here than there ever is, except the same generic complaints about something there's no stats to support.

7.9 assists per game is not accidental offense, and it's a line most two-guards would be extremely happy with, (most players for that matter).

He's also not the only guard on my team.

[wdleehi]

AI is who AI is.


He has never successfully shared an offense with another top offensive player.  (don't tell me Denver because that team became so much better when they replaced him with Billups)



He is unbelievably selfish.  He quit on two teams because he was not happy with his starting position or the number of touches he was receiving.  And this was when his skills were diminishing. 



You are asking in his prime AI to share?  Not going to happen.  The evidence that is his career says he will not.  (or he will quit if the ball is put in someone else's hands.)

[Roy H.]

If you're making a statistical argument for AI you can't discount his high turnovers and his lousy FG% / efficiency.

[Bahku]

If you're making a statistical argument for AI you can't discount his high turnovers and his lousy FG% / efficiency.

Actually, high trunover rates are common with most players who pass the ball a great deal, as is evident with almost any other prominent PG or SG of our time, (AI's TO rate: 3.6/game for his career, Magic Johnson's: 3.9). Turnover rate really just supports the fact that he was a passer.

[wdleehi]

If you're making a statistical argument for AI you can't discount his high turnovers and his lousy FG% / efficiency.

Actually, high trunover rates are common with most players who pass the ball a great deal, as is evident with almost any other prominent PG or SG of our time, (AI's TO rate: 3.6/game for his career, Magic Johnson's: 3.9). Turnover rate really just supports the fact that he was a passer.

Except the year you picked where he averaged 7.9 assists and 4.6 turnovers a game

[Roy H.]

If you're making a statistical argument for AI you can't discount his high turnovers and his lousy FG% / efficiency.

Actually, high trunover rates are common with most players who pass the ball a great deal, as is evident with almost any other prominent PG or SG of our time, (AI's TO rate: 3.6/game for his career, Magic Johnson's: 3.9). Turnover rate really just supports the fact that he was a passer.

An assist to turnover ratio of 7.9 : 4.6 is very bad, though.