Avery can't play

[ssspence]

I would certainly rather have gilbert brown on the team than bradley. he has no NBA position. he's marcus banks without a handle.  

You seriously watched the preseason game yesterday and came to that conclusion?

God bless you.

Yes. Yes I did.

Take a look at the rest of my quote. I've seen Gil play a number of times. He goes hard to the basket and has excellent defensive tools that can be developed.

It simply doesn't excite me that much that Bradley can full court press Jarryd Bayless, who is a shooting guard. I really never understood drafting him in the first place -- i'd've taken James Anderson. Regardless, Brown has a much better shot at being a NBA rotation player than Bradley, in my opinion, not that i really believe that either will be this year, if ever.

The Marcus Banks comparison?  Please.

As for the rest, actually Bradley also disrupted Calderon as well, who regardless of his issues can handle and  pass the ball.  He picked the pocket of Bargnani quite easily (good handles for a big) and Raptors guards and forwards alike, again, right out of the pocket where they are comfortable with the ball.  

I do not see how Gilbert Brown has more defensive potential than Avery Bradley, to me that is a very puzzling statement.  If we're going to talk about offense, how about that ugly brick Brown threw off the backboard/iron?  At least Avery's missed jumpers were in and out or just off the rim.  He made some shots and hit a nice looking three.

Again, I hope to revisit this period of so many calling Bradley a bust when he has has a TA-esque role in the league (and potentially better offensively), if not with the C's then with another team.

your argument is based on a few minutes here and there in two preseason games. mine isn't -- that's all. as for marcus banks, comparing bradley to banks is more an insult to banks than bradley. a second NBA contract is still very much in doubt for avery.

bradley can't penetrate because he can't dribble a basketball. so he has to shoot it from outside, but... he can't shoot. his offensive skill set is way below average for a 6' guard. all the steals in the world won't make up for his destruction of opportunity for his team on the offensive end when he's on the floor.

in short, he can't play either the 1 or the 2 truly effectively, so when you factor his height (or lack there of), you know why he'll never be a NBA rotation player -- because 6' defensive specialists don't exist in the NBA.

[TA9]

I like his defense alot. His offense will come some day..

[Snakehead]

I would certainly rather have gilbert brown on the team than bradley. he has no NBA position. he's marcus banks without a handle.   

You seriously watched the preseason game yesterday and came to that conclusion?

God bless you.

Yes. Yes I did.

Take a look at the rest of my quote. I've seen Gil play a number of times. He goes hard to the basket and has excellent defensive tools that can be developed.

It simply doesn't excite me that much that Bradley can full court press Jarryd Bayless, who is a shooting guard. I really never understood drafting him in the first place -- i'd've taken James Anderson. Regardless, Brown has a much better shot at being a NBA rotation player than Bradley, in my opinion, not that i really believe that either will be this year, if ever.

The Marcus Banks comparison?  Please.

As for the rest, actually Bradley also disrupted Calderon as well, who regardless of his issues can handle and  pass the ball.  He picked the pocket of Bargnani quite easily (good handles for a big) and Raptors guards and forwards alike, again, right out of the pocket where they are comfortable with the ball. 

I do not see how Gilbert Brown has more defensive potential than Avery Bradley, to me that is a very puzzling statement.  If we're going to talk about offense, how about that ugly brick Brown threw off the backboard/iron?  At least Avery's missed jumpers were in and out or just off the rim.  He made some shots and hit a nice looking three.

Again, I hope to revisit this period of so many calling Bradley a bust when he has has a TA-esque role in the league (and potentially better offensively), if not with the C's then with another team.

your argument is based on a few minutes here and there in two preseason games. mine isn't -- that's all. as for marcus banks, comparing bradley to banks is more an insult to banks than bradley. a second NBA contract is still very much in doubt for avery.

bradley can't penetrate because he can't dribble a basketball. so he has to shoot it from outside, but... he can't shoot. his offensive skill set is way below average for a 6' guard. all the steals in the world won't make up for his destruction of opportunity for his team on the offensive end when he's on the floor.

in short, he can't play either the 1 or the 2 truly effectively, so when you factor his height (or lack there of), you know why he'll never be a NBA rotation player -- because 6' defensive specialists don't exist in the NBA.

Dude, Avery is NOT 6 feet tall, what moore proof do you need?  Are you going to ignore straight up facts?

Avery can finish and shoot, neither consistently yet but he has proven both and will only improve.

As for the rest, nothing else I can say to your logic... you will be proved wrong when Avery has a lengthy career.  A lot longer than Marcus Banks (Big time LOL to that one).

Anyways, Brown will be cut while Avery will remain.. about all that needs to be said.

[ssspence]

I would certainly rather have gilbert brown on the team than bradley. he has no NBA position. he's marcus banks without a handle.   

You seriously watched the preseason game yesterday and came to that conclusion?

God bless you.

Yes. Yes I did.

Take a look at the rest of my quote. I've seen Gil play a number of times. He goes hard to the basket and has excellent defensive tools that can be developed.

It simply doesn't excite me that much that Bradley can full court press Jarryd Bayless, who is a shooting guard. I really never understood drafting him in the first place -- i'd've taken James Anderson. Regardless, Brown has a much better shot at being a NBA rotation player than Bradley, in my opinion, not that i really believe that either will be this year, if ever.

The Marcus Banks comparison?  Please.

As for the rest, actually Bradley also disrupted Calderon as well, who regardless of his issues can handle and  pass the ball.  He picked the pocket of Bargnani quite easily (good handles for a big) and Raptors guards and forwards alike, again, right out of the pocket where they are comfortable with the ball. 

I do not see how Gilbert Brown has more defensive potential than Avery Bradley, to me that is a very puzzling statement.  If we're going to talk about offense, how about that ugly brick Brown threw off the backboard/iron?  At least Avery's missed jumpers were in and out or just off the rim.  He made some shots and hit a nice looking three.

Again, I hope to revisit this period of so many calling Bradley a bust when he has has a TA-esque role in the league (and potentially better offensively), if not with the C's then with another team.

your argument is based on a few minutes here and there in two preseason games. mine isn't -- that's all. as for marcus banks, comparing bradley to banks is more an insult to banks than bradley. a second NBA contract is still very much in doubt for avery.

bradley can't penetrate because he can't dribble a basketball. so he has to shoot it from outside, but... he can't shoot. his offensive skill set is way below average for a 6' guard. all the steals in the world won't make up for his destruction of opportunity for his team on the offensive end when he's on the floor.

in short, he can't play either the 1 or the 2 truly effectively, so when you factor his height (or lack there of), you know why he'll never be a NBA rotation player -- because 6' defensive specialists don't exist in the NBA.

Dude, Avery is NOT 6 feet tall, what moore proof do you need?  Are you going to ignore straight up facts?

Avery can finish and shoot, neither consistently yet but he has proven both and will only improve.

As for the rest, nothing else I can say to your logic... you will be proved wrong when Avery has a lengthy career.  A lot longer than Marcus Banks (Big time LOL to that one).

Anyways, Brown will be cut while Avery will remain.. about all that needs to be said.

if brown had the guaranteed deal and bradley didn't, bradley would be the one cut. i'd be surprised if he makes it through the year with the Cs -- he's the first contract ainge will toss into any small deal they make.

[Snakehead]

I would certainly rather have gilbert brown on the team than bradley. he has no NBA position. he's marcus banks without a handle.  

You seriously watched the preseason game yesterday and came to that conclusion?

God bless you.

Yes. Yes I did.

Take a look at the rest of my quote. I've seen Gil play a number of times. He goes hard to the basket and has excellent defensive tools that can be developed.

It simply doesn't excite me that much that Bradley can full court press Jarryd Bayless, who is a shooting guard. I really never understood drafting him in the first place -- i'd've taken James Anderson. Regardless, Brown has a much better shot at being a NBA rotation player than Bradley, in my opinion, not that i really believe that either will be this year, if ever.

The Marcus Banks comparison?  Please.

As for the rest, actually Bradley also disrupted Calderon as well, who regardless of his issues can handle and  pass the ball.  He picked the pocket of Bargnani quite easily (good handles for a big) and Raptors guards and forwards alike, again, right out of the pocket where they are comfortable with the ball.  

I do not see how Gilbert Brown has more defensive potential than Avery Bradley, to me that is a very puzzling statement.  If we're going to talk about offense, how about that ugly brick Brown threw off the backboard/iron?  At least Avery's missed jumpers were in and out or just off the rim.  He made some shots and hit a nice looking three.

Again, I hope to revisit this period of so many calling Bradley a bust when he has has a TA-esque role in the league (and potentially better offensively), if not with the C's then with another team.

your argument is based on a few minutes here and there in two preseason games. mine isn't -- that's all. as for marcus banks, comparing bradley to banks is more an insult to banks than bradley. a second NBA contract is still very much in doubt for avery.

bradley can't penetrate because he can't dribble a basketball. so he has to shoot it from outside, but... he can't shoot. his offensive skill set is way below average for a 6' guard. all the steals in the world won't make up for his destruction of opportunity for his team on the offensive end when he's on the floor.

in short, he can't play either the 1 or the 2 truly effectively, so when you factor his height (or lack there of), you know why he'll never be a NBA rotation player -- because 6' defensive specialists don't exist in the NBA.

Dude, Avery is NOT 6 feet tall, what moore proof do you need?  Are you going to ignore straight up facts?

Avery can finish and shoot, neither consistently yet but he has proven both and will only improve.

As for the rest, nothing else I can say to your logic... you will be proved wrong when Avery has a lengthy career.  A lot longer than Marcus Banks (Big time LOL to that one).

Anyways, Brown will be cut while Avery will remain.. about all that needs to be said.

if brown had the guaranteed deal and bradley didn't, bradley would be the one cut. i'd be surprised if he makes it through the year with the Cs -- he's the first contract ainge will toss into any small deal they make.

Yeah I bet Ainge would love to just cut a player who at 21 he says  is "the best atheltic perimeter defender on the team".  And there is a reason Avery has a guarenteed contract: he was drafted 18th while Gilbert Brown was not drafted at all.  Perhaps there is a reason for this?

[ssspence]

I would certainly rather have gilbert brown on the team than bradley. he has no NBA position. he's marcus banks without a handle.  

You seriously watched the preseason game yesterday and came to that conclusion?

God bless you.

Yes. Yes I did.

Take a look at the rest of my quote. I've seen Gil play a number of times. He goes hard to the basket and has excellent defensive tools that can be developed.

It simply doesn't excite me that much that Bradley can full court press Jarryd Bayless, who is a shooting guard. I really never understood drafting him in the first place -- i'd've taken James Anderson. Regardless, Brown has a much better shot at being a NBA rotation player than Bradley, in my opinion, not that i really believe that either will be this year, if ever.

The Marcus Banks comparison?  Please.

As for the rest, actually Bradley also disrupted Calderon as well, who regardless of his issues can handle and  pass the ball.  He picked the pocket of Bargnani quite easily (good handles for a big) and Raptors guards and forwards alike, again, right out of the pocket where they are comfortable with the ball.  

I do not see how Gilbert Brown has more defensive potential than Avery Bradley, to me that is a very puzzling statement.  If we're going to talk about offense, how about that ugly brick Brown threw off the backboard/iron?  At least Avery's missed jumpers were in and out or just off the rim.  He made some shots and hit a nice looking three.

Again, I hope to revisit this period of so many calling Bradley a bust when he has has a TA-esque role in the league (and potentially better offensively), if not with the C's then with another team.

your argument is based on a few minutes here and there in two preseason games. mine isn't -- that's all. as for marcus banks, comparing bradley to banks is more an insult to banks than bradley. a second NBA contract is still very much in doubt for avery.

bradley can't penetrate because he can't dribble a basketball. so he has to shoot it from outside, but... he can't shoot. his offensive skill set is way below average for a 6' guard. all the steals in the world won't make up for his destruction of opportunity for his team on the offensive end when he's on the floor.

in short, he can't play either the 1 or the 2 truly effectively, so when you factor his height (or lack there of), you know why he'll never be a NBA rotation player -- because 6' defensive specialists don't exist in the NBA.

Dude, Avery is NOT 6 feet tall, what moore proof do you need?  Are you going to ignore straight up facts?

Avery can finish and shoot, neither consistently yet but he has proven both and will only improve.

As for the rest, nothing else I can say to your logic... you will be proved wrong when Avery has a lengthy career.  A lot longer than Marcus Banks (Big time LOL to that one).

Anyways, Brown will be cut while Avery will remain.. about all that needs to be said.

if brown had the guaranteed deal and bradley didn't, bradley would be the one cut. i'd be surprised if he makes it through the year with the Cs -- he's the first contract ainge will toss into any small deal they make.

Yeah I bet Ainge would love to just cut a player who at 21 he says  is "the best atheltic perimeter defender on the team".  And there is a reason Avery has a guarenteed contract: he was drafted 18th while Gilbert Brown was not drafted at all.  Perhaps there is a reason for this?

when sweetney is cut, less than half the players selected in the 1st round of the 2003 Draft will still be in the league. where you're drafted doesn't make you any good. and if and where you're drafted doesn't make you bad either. it's a crap shoot.

by the way, if you haven't noticed, when ainge verbally defending his players' skills, that typically means 1) they're not very good, 2) he's trying to trade them, or 3) both.

this discussion's gone off topic -- i'm out.

 

[clover]

Already more than half the 2006 1st rounders are out of the league.

[vinnie]

His defense is good. However, I cannot get too excited when he is playing that defense against what is likely the WORST backcourt in the NBA. I hope AB figures it out on offense soon or this will likely be his final year with the Celts. He is too small to be a defensive specialist.

[Snakehead]

I would certainly rather have gilbert brown on the team than bradley. he has no NBA position. he's marcus banks without a handle.  

You seriously watched the preseason game yesterday and came to that conclusion?

God bless you.

Yes. Yes I did.

Take a look at the rest of my quote. I've seen Gil play a number of times. He goes hard to the basket and has excellent defensive tools that can be developed.

It simply doesn't excite me that much that Bradley can full court press Jarryd Bayless, who is a shooting guard. I really never understood drafting him in the first place -- i'd've taken James Anderson. Regardless, Brown has a much better shot at being a NBA rotation player than Bradley, in my opinion, not that i really believe that either will be this year, if ever.

The Marcus Banks comparison?  Please.

As for the rest, actually Bradley also disrupted Calderon as well, who regardless of his issues can handle and  pass the ball.  He picked the pocket of Bargnani quite easily (good handles for a big) and Raptors guards and forwards alike, again, right out of the pocket where they are comfortable with the ball.  

I do not see how Gilbert Brown has more defensive potential than Avery Bradley, to me that is a very puzzling statement.  If we're going to talk about offense, how about that ugly brick Brown threw off the backboard/iron?  At least Avery's missed jumpers were in and out or just off the rim.  He made some shots and hit a nice looking three.

Again, I hope to revisit this period of so many calling Bradley a bust when he has has a TA-esque role in the league (and potentially better offensively), if not with the C's then with another team.

your argument is based on a few minutes here and there in two preseason games. mine isn't -- that's all. as for marcus banks, comparing bradley to banks is more an insult to banks than bradley. a second NBA contract is still very much in doubt for avery.

bradley can't penetrate because he can't dribble a basketball. so he has to shoot it from outside, but... he can't shoot. his offensive skill set is way below average for a 6' guard. all the steals in the world won't make up for his destruction of opportunity for his team on the offensive end when he's on the floor.

in short, he can't play either the 1 or the 2 truly effectively, so when you factor his height (or lack there of), you know why he'll never be a NBA rotation player -- because 6' defensive specialists don't exist in the NBA.

Dude, Avery is NOT 6 feet tall, what moore proof do you need?  Are you going to ignore straight up facts?

Avery can finish and shoot, neither consistently yet but he has proven both and will only improve.

As for the rest, nothing else I can say to your logic... you will be proved wrong when Avery has a lengthy career.  A lot longer than Marcus Banks (Big time LOL to that one).

Anyways, Brown will be cut while Avery will remain.. about all that needs to be said.

if brown had the guaranteed deal and bradley didn't, bradley would be the one cut. i'd be surprised if he makes it through the year with the Cs -- he's the first contract ainge will toss into any small deal they make.

Yeah I bet Ainge would love to just cut a player who at 21 he says  is "the best atheltic perimeter defender on the team".  And there is a reason Avery has a guarenteed contract: he was drafted 18th while Gilbert Brown was not drafted at all.  Perhaps there is a reason for this?

when sweetney is cut, less than half the players selected in the 1st round of the 2003 Draft will still be in the league. where you're drafted doesn't make you any good. and if and where you're drafted doesn't make you bad either. it's a crap shoot.

by the way, if you haven't noticed, when ainge verbally defending his players' skills, that typically means 1) they're not very good, 2) he's trying to trade them, or 3) both.

this discussion's gone off topic -- i'm out.

 

I think you're talking about Doc praising players overly.  Ainge doesn't do that as much.  I point to the interviews at the start of the season where he basically said he had nothing to say about the rookies as they haven't proven anything to him.

But have you're entitled to your opinion, I just think you're going to be proven very wrong when Bradley's in the league for years and Brown and Marcus Banks (.... really?) are playing overseas.

[dtrader]

If we can admit that Moore already looks more promising than Bradley, then whats the point of having Bradley?  

Are you honestly trying to make the argument why have two potentially good players when you can have one?  What is the benefit in getting rid of him that you perceive?

Opening a roster spot for a quality vet min back up SF, and saving money.  Either of those would be good, but we could probably achieve both at the same time if we dropped him.  And I'm not trying to make the argument for "why have 2 when we can have 1".  I don't think Bradley has much potential.  

I'm saying, that even for the people who DO think he has potential, what are he reasons for keeping him if Moore has MORE potential (and current ability).  They play the same position, but Moore is substantially bigger, and so far appears to be more capable.  With Dooling already entrenched as backup PG, Marquis as backup SG, and no legit backup SF, I dont see the point of keeping both players.  They can't both get adequate minutes to develop, and the biggest issue with our bench is scoring...which appears to come more naturally to Moore.

That's my argument.  Thoughts?

I'll agree that even with only a tiny bit of play time to judge the two of them on, Moore appears better.  

That being said, AB remains the youngest player on the team, by 20 months.  His rookie season was thrown off kilter by an injury and he's only seen 162 minutes of play.  

I'm under the impression that MD will be used as a backup SF more, especially considering he was the starter in the prior game.  He was also playing SF last season.  That means the SF currently has 4 players, the deepest on the depth chart: PP, MD, SP, and GB.  GB is a full 3 years older than AB.  I just don't think there is a potential for a breakout year for him, and if anyone should be cut its him.

Meanwhile, SG is 3 players deep, RA, EM, and AB.  Cut AB and it becomes only two deep.  While RA has managed to stay healthy, he's the oldest player on the team. I don't think it makes sense to have the oldest player only have one player behind him on the depth chart.

I personally think AB can end up growing in trade value this year more so than GB and if there is anyone this team doesn't need, its him.

Your analysis of our position needs assumes 1.- Gilbert Brown makes the team...which I highly doubt he will, and 2. -Marquis Daniels primarily backs up SF...which I dont think he will.

Daniels is "capable" at playing short stints at SF against smaller SFs, but he is too light to guard any legit SF.  The main reason he got substantial time there last game, was because Pavlovic was out, and Pierce is hurt.  So really the fact that he had to start as our SF is a sign of exactly how thin we are at SF.  Basically I see our depth at SF, as Pierce (nursing an injury), and then Sasha.

At SG, we have Ray (who hasnt been injured), Daniels, Moore and Dooling (who has played both guard positions his whole career).  That is more than enough.  Add in the fact that AB at 6' is at a size disadvantage guarding any SGs, and he really becomes out of place.

Gilbert Brown isnt even in the conversation...he will not be on the team.

My analysis was in response to your position of getting rid of AB to open up a spot for SF.

If you don't think GB is making the team, then there is a roster spot open, and your reason for eliminating AB is nonexistent. So again, what benefit do you perceive in getting rid of AB?

You countered my assertion that Bradleys roster spot could better be used on a SF backup, by mentioning the depth we had at SF, including Brown (who WAS cut now), and Daniels playing SF.  Now Brown is gone, and as I explained, Daniels was only starting at SF due to sasha and Pierce being injured.  So your contention that SF is one of our deepest spots is not valid.  The fact that a spot is open is great, but doesnt change the fact that Bradley isnt worth keeping.

  The fact that a spot is open doesnt make him any more deserving of minutes than Moore, doesnt make him any less of a waste of $, and doesn't make him 4" taller.  He is still a 6' tall defensive specialist without a position.  I'm happy that we got gilbert brown out of the discussion, but that shouldnt save Bradley.  If anything, it means we can now pick up a backup SF AND a veteran backup center, so we dont have to count on an undersized forward-center, or a D-league call up who's never played a minute in the league.

And I think Bradley IS 6' tall.  He may be listed as 6'1-6'2", but when he stands next to Dooling and Moore, he is substantially shorter, and they are both listed at only 1 or 2 inches taller. Only explanation for that, is he's incorrectly listed, or the other players are larger than their listed heights.  Either way, seeing him in the games next to the people he's playing with is more of an indicator to me, than any listing online.  Even at 6'2" though...do you think a 6'2" guard who can't run point, and lacks a confident jumper will be kept in the league for his defense?  I just can't see it.

If giving Bradley a chance means less minutes for Moore, it isnt worth keeping him.

[LooseCannon]

If nothing else, Bradley remains a trade asset and it would incredibly wasteful, short-sighted, and irresponsible to cut him instead of keeping him on the roster until you can work out a deal or he loses all trade value (which probably won't happen until 2013 if he remains healthy).

And I would rather have a D-Leaguer who has never played in the NBA or a power forward who is undersized when masquerading as a center over your typical journeyman center who can be signed for the minimum but is unlikely to ever be worth more than the minimum.

[kgiessler]

If giving Bradley a chance means less minutes for Moore, it isnt worth keeping him.

Who/what says it does?

[droopdog7]

If nothing else, Bradley remains a trade asset and it would incredibly wasteful, short-sighted, and irresponsible to cut him instead of keeping him on the roster until you can work out a deal or he loses all trade value (which probably won't happen until 2013 if he remains healthy).

And I would rather have a D-Leaguer who has never played in the NBA or a power forward who is undersized when masquerading as a center over your typical journeyman center who can be signed for the minimum but is unlikely to ever be worth more than the minimum.

I would be positively shocked if Avery had any trade value at all.  Okay, maybe some team would give us a late second round draft pick but that's probably about it.

Again, Avery's problem is that he simply has no position.  He has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he isn't a PG.  And please don't give me a "he's still young" comment.  You don't learn how to become a PG in the NBA.  You either are one or you are not.

Of course, at his height, he isn't a shooting guard either.  In addition to be too small, he isn't an elite scorer.  In fact, he isn't really anything.

Yes, he has above average defense.  But it simply will not be enough for him.  Indeed, with his offensive deficiencies, Avery would practically have to shut his guy out every game (no points, rebounds, assists) to merit playing time.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

See, this is where people lose me, you think that just because I have seen AB be constantly terrible on offense and voiced it, you assume I think he is a useless player... thing is, that couldn't be further from the truth! I like what he gives on defense and I HOPE he becomes serviceable on offense!! I think that AB is on one of probably a few teams who could use him even if he doesn't figure out how to play offense consistently well (this season)... he is a good defensive player, this team doesn't NEED (sure it would be a bonus) him to get us points or run the offense but he can do the one thing this team hangs their hat on when the going gets tough, defense! If AB played like this on a team that wasn't as good as ours (say in Cleveland), I could see him not being in the NBA, even w/ that defensive potential! I don't think anyone (maybe I'm wrong) doesn't want AB to get better, some of you act as if everyone that critiques him wants him to fail! I use to get so mad at Shaq (before I finally gave up) when would miss so many fts!!! You think because I voiced my frustration, I wanted him to fail? Heck no! I wished with everything in me he would somehow get better! I'm not saying AB can't get better (I can see SOME people are), I'm just saying what I have seen so far, looks TERRIBLE! I do not want him off the team either, it's not like the player who would replace him would get much game time anyway... I'd rather keep him for D and wait another season to see if he can figure out his offense! I wont be proven wrong later if AB gets his act together on offense because I never said he wouldn't be able to!

[Yogi]

   If you're athletic and quick you will find ways to score the ball.  Doc Rivers and his staff will find ways for him to get points.  He also has a good jumper, he just needs to find his stroke.  Moore played the entire lockout in Italy, not to mention 4 straight years in college.  Once Bradley works through his lockout rust he'll start finishing drives and making jumpers.  He will become an excellent player.