Author Topic: Avery can't play  (Read 25467 times)

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Re: Avery can't play
« Reply #75 on: December 22, 2011, 08:27:53 AM »

Offline JustAfam

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i would absolutely love to see anyone on this site at 21 years old have the mental fortitude to play at the NBA level and not have to shake off some nerves. Youre criticizing a kid for god sakes.  He plays absolutely phenomenal defense. He will always have a place in this league if his defense stays where its at.  Look at Tony Allen all he does is play defense and slash.  We missed him sorely last year and Memphis loves him being there.  Incredible that youre going to write this kid off after 2 preseason games where he looked miles better than he did at any point last year.

Crazy argument, as if hundreds of other 21y.o. haven't been able to do it! So, are you saying b/c we can't do it we are not allowed to comment on someone else? Spare me! Like I said before, I won't give up someone on a team I root for no matter how they play but I'm not going to see roses at all times either! I HOPE AB becomes credible on O b/c that D is looking very nice, it has his entire (short) career! If AB was playing on say, the lakers, the same guys on here saying he is young (or this or that) would be saying how glad you are that the lakers pick was looking so bad on O, you would probably be calling him a bust (even w/ the really good D)!!!
   


I watched closely as the celtics drafted avery bradley.He came straight out of the college of texas and had an ankle injury.He couldn't practice and he had the ankle surgery and he had to rehab it for a month.Now mind you he has missed training camp,celtics practices and some games.im sorry but not even john wall can miss those about of reps and be good.Mm going to give bradley two to three season before i call him a bust.His defense is already elite.The scouts and doc rivers were right about that part of his game.bradley lack three things.1.Ball handling.2.Confidence.3.Shooting.I say he needs to work on 1 and 3 more.3 will come eventually.Funny the same people who are willing to label him a bust will sing his praises when he eventually becomes a good player,FYi Bradley was named the No ! prospect in the country.kid has talent and im going to give him a few seasons before i call him a bust.

Re: Avery can't play
« Reply #76 on: December 22, 2011, 08:35:39 AM »

Offline MaxAMillion

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Bradley will never be a factor in this league. Moore looks miles better almost immediately. I suspect they will send Bradley back to the D league. This is JR Giddens/Lester Hudson all over again.

Re: Avery can't play
« Reply #77 on: December 22, 2011, 08:37:21 AM »

Offline dtrader

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If we can admit that Moore already looks more promising than Bradley, then whats the point of having Bradley? 
Are you honestly trying to make the argument why have two potentially good players when you can have one?  What is the benefit in getting rid of him that you perceive?

Opening a roster spot for a quality vet min back up SF, and saving money.  Either of those would be good, but we could probably achieve both at the same time if we dropped him.  And I'm not trying to make the argument for "why have 2 when we can have 1".  I don't think Bradley has much potential. 

I'm saying, that even for the people who DO think he has potential, what are he reasons for keeping him if Moore has MORE potential (and current ability).  They play the same position, but Moore is substantially bigger, and so far appears to be more capable.  With Dooling already entrenched as backup PG, Marquis as backup SG, and no legit backup SF, I dont see the point of keeping both players.  They can't both get adequate minutes to develop, and the biggest issue with our bench is scoring...which appears to come more naturally to Moore.

That's my argument.  Thoughts?
I'll agree that even with only a tiny bit of play time to judge the two of them on, Moore appears better. 

That being said, AB remains the youngest player on the team, by 20 months.  His rookie season was thrown off kilter by an injury and he's only seen 162 minutes of play. 

I'm under the impression that MD will be used as a backup SF more, especially considering he was the starter in the prior game.  He was also playing SF last season.  That means the SF currently has 4 players, the deepest on the depth chart: PP, MD, SP, and GB.  GB is a full 3 years older than AB.  I just don't think there is a potential for a breakout year for him, and if anyone should be cut its him.

Meanwhile, SG is 3 players deep, RA, EM, and AB.  Cut AB and it becomes only two deep.  While RA has managed to stay healthy, he's the oldest player on the team. I don't think it makes sense to have the oldest player only have one player behind him on the depth chart.

I personally think AB can end up growing in trade value this year more so than GB and if there is anyone this team doesn't need, its him.

Your analysis of our position needs assumes 1.- Gilbert Brown makes the team...which I highly doubt he will, and 2. -Marquis Daniels primarily backs up SF...which I dont think he will.

Daniels is "capable" at playing short stints at SF against smaller SFs, but he is too light to guard any legit SF.  The main reason he got substantial time there last game, was because Pavlovic was out, and Pierce is hurt.  So really the fact that he had to start as our SF is a sign of exactly how thin we are at SF.  Basically I see our depth at SF, as Pierce (nursing an injury), and then Sasha.

At SG, we have Ray (who hasnt been injured), Daniels, Moore and Dooling (who has played both guard positions his whole career).  That is more than enough.  Add in the fact that AB at 6' is at a size disadvantage guarding any SGs, and he really becomes out of place.

Gilbert Brown isnt even in the conversation...he will not be on the team.

Re: Avery can't play
« Reply #78 on: December 22, 2011, 08:37:45 AM »

Offline JustAfam

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How many people labeled Mj a bust after he got cut from his high school kid.Heck hwo many people would have drafted kevin durant over oden.lets be honest here.with certain players you dont know.plus injury plays a big part in this.look at greg oden very good player but he cant be healthy.the best example is Tyler seguin from the bruins.how many people labeled him a bust after he struggled his first season.alot.i head it from the bruins forum.and once he had that spectuclar game against tampa in the playoffs,his confidence grew and he became the player he is today because of that.not everyone is going to be lebron james.thats what people are forgetting.not everyone is going to average 20 points and 7 to 8 assists their first year straight out of high school.they is a reason we have the d League.to help hone a players skill.

Re: Avery can't play
« Reply #79 on: December 22, 2011, 09:00:59 AM »

Offline dtrader

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How many people labeled Mj a bust after he got cut from his high school kid.Heck hwo many people would have drafted kevin durant over oden.lets be honest here.with certain players you dont know.plus injury plays a big part in this.look at greg oden very good player but he cant be healthy.the best example is Tyler seguin from the bruins.how many people labeled him a bust after he struggled his first season.alot.i head it from the bruins forum.and once he had that spectuclar game against tampa in the playoffs,his confidence grew and he became the player he is today because of that.not everyone is going to be lebron james.thats what people are forgetting.not everyone is going to average 20 points and 7 to 8 assists their first year straight out of high school.they is a reason we have the d League.to help hone a players skill.

As far as Jordan...No one labels unheralded underclassmen "busts" because they dont make Varcity their first try.  Jordan wasnt cut...he just didnt play Varcity his 1st year.  KD and Oden were never questioned regarding their skill.  No one ever said Oden was a bust because he couldnt play his posiion....hes just too injured. 

No one is calling Bradley a bust because of an injury...just that he doesnt seem to have the skills (or size) to succeed at this level.  He isnt good at running an offense (or ball handling), so he cant play point, and at 6' tall with only a decent handle and questionable jumpshot, he doesnt appear to be a shooting guard.  He's good at defending point guards, but too small to guard shooting guards...so he has no position.

Re: Avery can't play
« Reply #80 on: December 22, 2011, 09:04:34 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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I really thought Celtics fans would be able to understand that there is more to basketball than offense. Did we all watch the same game?  Did we all watch the defensive posessions?

Avery was amazing defensively.  The one criticism I had of his defense (fouling) he kept under control.  He stripped both bigs and guards of the ball right out of the pocket, not only off passes or cross overs.  He created two break away situations (one which should have been a clear path foul).  He did a good job contesting shots.

Offensively, he calmed in the 2nd half.  His shot selection was not bad, and if they just went in everyone would be singing his praises (but honestly, maybe not how some of you guys fail to see the positive aspects of Bradley's game).  He made a nice 3 pt shot off the rotation. He also had a good aggressive take to the rim that was blocked, but a good take nonetheless.  He made solid passes and looked good on the break with Moore.


I for one was happy with what I saw.  Keep working Avery, you are primed to be one of the NBAs best defenders from the guard position and I hope you stick around.  Thank god no one on this board has any say in your future, you will have an NBA career yet.  I see TA 2.0 in the making.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 09:13:10 AM by Snakehead »
"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford

Re: Avery can't play
« Reply #81 on: December 22, 2011, 09:11:53 AM »

Offline dtrader

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I really thought Celtics fans would be able to understand that there is more to basketball than offense. Did we all watch the same game?  Did we all watch the defensive posessions?

Avery was amazing defensively.  The one criticism I had of his defense (fouling) he kept under control.  He stripped both bigs and guards of the ball right out of the pocket, not only off passes or cross overs.  He created two break away situations (one which should have been a clear path foul).  He did a good job contesting shots.

Offensively, he calmed in the 2nd half.  His shot selection was not bad, and if they just went in everyone would be singing his praises (but honestly, maybe not how some of you guys fail to see the positive aspects of Bradley's game).  He also had a good aggressive take to the rim that was blocked, but a good take nonetheless.


I for one was happy with what I saw.  Keep working Avery, you are primed to be one of the NBAs best defenders from the guard position and I hope you stick around.

He has good footwork, quick hands, and is determined.  That gets him steals.  He's still too short to be a rebounder (had none las game), or guard Shooting guards.  He can contest the shots of point guards that are close to his size.  Unfortunately, we're saying he's a SG now, and he wont be able to contest he jumpshot of a 6'6" shooting guard (or stop them from posting him up all day).  He's not going to stop getting blocked, unless he suddenly grows 4 inches.  6 foot tall defensive specialists dont exist in the NBA...theyre too much of a liability.

Re: Avery can't play
« Reply #82 on: December 22, 2011, 09:18:30 AM »

Offline clover

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I think Danny signs a vet to the 15th slot fairly quickly.  GS, JJ and EM all play like keepers.

Then if AB is still struggling after the 1st 2 months of the season, he's at risk of getting cut for another vet come March 1.

He might be more likely to hang on if the team struggles and Danny blows it up by moving some expiring contracts.

Re: Avery can't play
« Reply #83 on: December 22, 2011, 09:21:47 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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I really thought Celtics fans would be able to understand that there is more to basketball than offense. Did we all watch the same game?  Did we all watch the defensive posessions?

Avery was amazing defensively.  The one criticism I had of his defense (fouling) he kept under control.  He stripped both bigs and guards of the ball right out of the pocket, not only off passes or cross overs.  He created two break away situations (one which should have been a clear path foul).  He did a good job contesting shots.

Offensively, he calmed in the 2nd half.  His shot selection was not bad, and if they just went in everyone would be singing his praises (but honestly, maybe not how some of you guys fail to see the positive aspects of Bradley's game).  He also had a good aggressive take to the rim that was blocked, but a good take nonetheless.


I for one was happy with what I saw.  Keep working Avery, you are primed to be one of the NBAs best defenders from the guard position and I hope you stick around.

He has good footwork, quick hands, and is determined.  That gets him steals.  He's still too short to be a rebounder (had none las game), or guard Shooting guards.  He can contest the shots of point guards that are close to his size.  Unfortunately, we're saying he's a SG now, and he wont be able to contest he jumpshot of a 6'6" shooting guard (or stop them from posting him up all day).  He's not going to stop getting blocked, unless he suddenly grows 4 inches.  6 foot tall defensive specialists dont exist in the NBA...theyre too much of a liability.

Well first of all he is 6' 2".  I would love if he had at least the extra 2" to be truly TA 2.0, but unless he hits a suprising growth spurt that's not happening.  Him playing taller SGs isn't ideal, but a lot of best and upcoming SGs are smaller right now.  Avery is helped in a big way by his wingspan, which allows him to contest taller players shots anyways.

Continuing the TA analogy, TA can play larger players because he has wingspan, has great footwork and positioning, and is relentless in pursuit.  Remember seeing TA pester Durant in the Playoffs last year?  He's giving up 6" to the best scorer in the league and still made it work.  Avery is giving up 2", but if he works hard enough and continues to develop defensively he can overcome the height differences out there when they occur.
"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford

Re: Avery can't play
« Reply #84 on: December 22, 2011, 09:28:47 AM »

Offline Potapenko Boxout

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i wish he stayed in school. jumping to the NBA, IMO, really goofed up his development.

god what an ugly jump shot for a guard

Re: Avery can't play
« Reply #85 on: December 22, 2011, 09:40:20 AM »

Offline ssspence

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I would certainly rather have gilbert brown on the team than bradley.  he has no NBA position. he's marcus banks without a handle.

« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 09:48:57 AM by ssspence »
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Re: Avery can't play
« Reply #86 on: December 22, 2011, 09:49:27 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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I would certainly rather have gilbert brown on the team than bradley. 



You seriously watched the preseason game yesterday and came to that conclusion?

God bless you.
"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford

Re: Avery can't play
« Reply #87 on: December 22, 2011, 09:52:44 AM »

Offline dmny5000

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It's funny I didn't hear people saying Ray Allen cant shoot the last time he had a bad shooting night. It was one game, the kid can shoot just relax. Wait a few more games before saying he cant shoot. The amount of patience some people have is ridiculous.

He was guarding Derozan last night and his height wasn't a problem so I don't know why people don't think he can defend the 2.

He was moving without the ball way more and he wasn't making as many mistakes as last year. He wasn't fouling 5 times per minute and I saw a lot of improvement. His ball handling isn't good but neither is Ray's and he seems to be pretty good.

Yes Moore looks good but to say a guy as limited athletically as Moore has more potential is absurd. Moore is clearly a very solid player but he's obviously limited that's why he was barely drafted. He can clearly play but it's not like he needs minutes to grow. He already gets it and can only get so much better with his level of talent. He's like Marquis in guard form with a better jumper. Too slow but he makes it work but still has limitations.

Typical celticsblog reaction, it's just funny cause if he went 9/10 and scored 25 you guys would be saying we have the next Jordan.

Everyone lookout! The sky is falling!

Re: Avery can't play
« Reply #88 on: December 22, 2011, 09:59:29 AM »

Offline heyvik

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BTW...another one of Danny's draftees just got cut.

Gabe Pruitt cut by Orlando Magic.

Re: Avery can't play
« Reply #89 on: December 22, 2011, 10:29:02 AM »

Offline elcotte

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To be fair, Bradley's offensive game is predicated on his jump shot.  When it's not falling it's going to be ugly. 

He's shot it well enough in the past (college, D-League) for me not to be too concerned. 

Right now Moore is the much better offensive player.  His ball-handling is much better developed and his shot is falling.

Basically, I think this is the biggest problem for Bradley right now.  Even if he DOES have potential...he hasn't shown any more potential than Moore.  Moore has a polished offensive game, AND good defense AND at least 3" on Bradley.  Why give minutes to Bradley, when Moore could have the same minutes, and give the team what it needs...bench scoring.

Bradley got 3 steals, so he attracted a lot of attention, but Moore got 1 steal, 4 rebounds, and drew more fouls than any other celtic player.

Blah, Blah, Blah......Moore played 4 years in college and Bradley didn't. Stop the pontification please.