Author Topic: Chris Brousard - "CP3 won't sign an extension with the c's"  (Read 41172 times)

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Re: Chris Brousard - "CP3 won't sign an extension with the c's"
« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2011, 06:50:29 PM »

Offline CelticSooner

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  I believe Danny Ainge is too smart to trade for Chris Paul without and extension.

  Either way your headed into rebuilding/reloading mode after this season.  I don't trade away the only player on this roster with decent trade value around the NBA for a one year rental. 

That is such short sighted thinking. Going for it this season and not caring about the future is fine for fans but consistently successful organizations don't think that way. 

  I'm not against trading Rondo by any means.  I'd trade Paul Pierce if it made the team better now and in the future.

  I completely against trading away Rondo for a one year rental of a guy who doesn't want to be here.  It's not a recipe for success it is a recipe for disappointment.

I agree with this. Trading away the C's biggest trade asset for a one year rental of CP3 is foolish. CP3 or not the C's are on the outside looking in at a championship this season.

I say you sprinkle what free agents you can and roll with what you got for this season. If things aren't looking good by the trade deadline you just blow it up.

Re: Chris Brousard - "CP3 won't sign an extension with the c's"
« Reply #46 on: November 30, 2011, 06:52:43 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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  I believe Danny Ainge is too smart to trade for Chris Paul without and extension.

  Either way your headed into rebuilding/reloading mode after this season.  I don't trade away the only player on this roster with decent trade value around the NBA for a one year rental. 

That is such short sighted thinking. Going for it this season and not caring about the future is fine for fans but consistently successful organizations don't think that way. 

  I'm not against trading Rondo by any means.  I'd trade Paul Pierce if it made the team better now and in the future.

  I completely against trading away Rondo for a one year rental of a guy who doesn't want to be here.  It's not a recipe for success it is a recipe for disappointment.

Rondo doesn't appear to have the potential to be best player on a championship team. I'd even argue no PG (unless you are Magic Johnson) could be.

You want to ride him for the next 5 years to mediocrity? While every other star is out recruiting other stars, what is he doing? Skateboarding?

I'm fine with keeping him, and I'm also fine with moving him for enhancing our chance at not only another championship, but Dwight.

A recipe for success (and by that, I mean a championship) is a PG who can set up his All-Star/HoF teammates or takeover the scoring burden when needed. I firmly believe our offense would be far and away the most efficient one in the league with CP3 while also maintaining our elite/best defense.

theres alot of holes in your argument.

first off, you want CP3, but then say no PG has lead a team to a championship being the best player on the team...its a contradiction. it would seem to say that we dont need a "superstar scoring" pg

second, isnt rondo a PG who CAN set up his all-star/HOF teammates?? he was the leader in assists by a longshot for 3/4 of the season until injuries/slump where he played horrible

and how can you not say rondo cant recruit stars? Josh smith has said he wants to play with rondo, other players have as well. Rondo-Howard would be a contendor just as CP3-Howard would be.



We are upgrading the position. I'm not willing to hold onto Rondo simply because we would have a great player after the Big Three are done. Look at all the great PG's around the league who are on bad teams. Look at the Stockton's and Payton's and Nash's and Kidd's who couldn't lead their teams to a trophy. Rondo doesn't make the C's, if anything, we make him. We are a balanced team and would become exponentially more difficult to guard with CP3.

And yes, Rondo has done a fantastic job setting up his teammates the last 3+ years. But what about when they are guarded by players like LeBron and Wade? Can he take over? For a game, possibly. A series? Nope (he also can't contain Rose for whatever reason, but that's besides the point).

And stating it would be fun to play with Rondo and actually committing to joining his team are totally different teams. As great as Howard and Rondo would look, I'd cringe every 4th quarter when they start getting hacked because combined they can't knock down 60% of their FT's.

This team is capable of winning a championship this season without moving Rondo, but will need a lot of things to go right. With CP3, they should be the favorites as long as they are all healthy.
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Re: Chris Brousard - "CP3 won't sign an extension with the c's"
« Reply #47 on: November 30, 2011, 07:04:56 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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  I believe Danny Ainge is too smart to trade for Chris Paul without and extension.

  Either way your headed into rebuilding/reloading mode after this season.  I don't trade away the only player on this roster with decent trade value around the NBA for a one year rental. 

That is such short sighted thinking. Going for it this season and not caring about the future is fine for fans but consistently successful organizations don't think that way. 

  I'm not against trading Rondo by any means.  I'd trade Paul Pierce if it made the team better now and in the future.

  I completely against trading away Rondo for a one year rental of a guy who doesn't want to be here.  It's not a recipe for success it is a recipe for disappointment.

I agree with this. Trading away the C's biggest trade asset for a one year rental of CP3 is foolish. CP3 or not the C's are on the outside looking in at a championship this season.

I say you sprinkle what free agents you can and roll with what you got for this season. If things aren't looking good by the trade deadline you just blow it up.

It's funny because I remember on draft night in 2007 when it was announced we traded our pick for Ray, I was kinda dumbfounded. Sure he made us better, but anyone would make a 24-win team better. Ainge threw away a great pick for a bottom-seed playoff team? What a fool!

Then everything fell into place.

Sometimes you have to take big risks for big rewards. There was no guarantee KG would agree after trading for Ray, but Ainge took the chance that he would. And he did.

Maybe CP3 leads us to a championship, loves Boston, and recruits Dwight. Or maybe he hates it here and leaves after underwhelming everyone. Then we can start over with a buttload of cap space (Ray, KG, CP3, JO off the books - just Pierce, rookie contracts, and maybe Green/West and a bunch of veterans), maybe even enough to lure two max FA's.
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Re: Chris Brousard - "CP3 won't sign an extension with the c's"
« Reply #48 on: November 30, 2011, 07:17:36 PM »

Offline CelticsFanNC

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  Sorry I try to deal in reality.  Reality is there is almost zero chance Boston gets both Paul and Howard.

  Are you guys also going to criticize Ainge when he doesn't live up to your pipe dreams?   

  You need assets to build a great team.  Ainge has shown that once.  He accumulated various assets and turned them into gold.  Right now I don't believe the Celtics have the kind of assets that will eventually land Chris Paul and Dwight Howard in other cities.

  If Ainge can get an extension I am all for trading Rondo for Paul and quite a few others but not for a one and done.  I wouldn't do it with out assurances that you're not trading your only young asset for a guy who may or may not make you better short term and wont be here more then one year. 

  Competent organizations play the percentages.  The percentages are stacked pretty high against either Howard or Paul landing in Boston in the near future.
 

Re: Chris Brousard - "CP3 won't sign an extension with the c's"
« Reply #49 on: November 30, 2011, 07:19:16 PM »

Offline CelticsFanNC

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  I believe Danny Ainge is too smart to trade for Chris Paul without and extension.

  Either way your headed into rebuilding/reloading mode after this season.  I don't trade away the only player on this roster with decent trade value around the NBA for a one year rental. 

That is such short sighted thinking. Going for it this season and not caring about the future is fine for fans but consistently successful organizations don't think that way. 

  I'm not against trading Rondo by any means.  I'd trade Paul Pierce if it made the team better now and in the future.

  I completely against trading away Rondo for a one year rental of a guy who doesn't want to be here.  It's not a recipe for success it is a recipe for disappointment.

I agree with this. Trading away the C's biggest trade asset for a one year rental of CP3 is foolish. CP3 or not the C's are on the outside looking in at a championship this season.

I say you sprinkle what free agents you can and roll with what you got for this season. If things aren't looking good by the trade deadline you just blow it up.

It's funny because I remember on draft night in 2007 when it was announced we traded our pick for Ray, I was kinda dumbfounded. Sure he made us better, but anyone would make a 24-win team better. Ainge threw away a great pick for a bottom-seed playoff team? What a fool!

Then everything fell into place.

Sometimes you have to take big risks for big rewards. There was no guarantee KG would agree after trading for Ray, but Ainge took the chance that he would. And he did.

Maybe CP3 leads us to a championship, loves Boston, and recruits Dwight. Or maybe he hates it here and leaves after underwhelming everyone. Then we can start over with a buttload of cap space (Ray, KG, CP3, JO off the books - just Pierce, rookie contracts, and maybe Green/West and a bunch of veterans), maybe even enough to lure two max FA's.


  When  Ainge made those deals he had a pile of assets he took years to accumulate and currently does not have.

Re: Chris Brousard - "CP3 won't sign an extension with the c's"
« Reply #50 on: November 30, 2011, 07:30:47 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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  I believe Danny Ainge is too smart to trade for Chris Paul without and extension.

  Either way your headed into rebuilding/reloading mode after this season.  I don't trade away the only player on this roster with decent trade value around the NBA for a one year rental. 

That is such short sighted thinking. Going for it this season and not caring about the future is fine for fans but consistently successful organizations don't think that way. 

  I'm not against trading Rondo by any means.  I'd trade Paul Pierce if it made the team better now and in the future.

  I completely against trading away Rondo for a one year rental of a guy who doesn't want to be here.  It's not a recipe for success it is a recipe for disappointment.

I agree with this. Trading away the C's biggest trade asset for a one year rental of CP3 is foolish. CP3 or not the C's are on the outside looking in at a championship this season.

I say you sprinkle what free agents you can and roll with what you got for this season. If things aren't looking good by the trade deadline you just blow it up.

It's funny because I remember on draft night in 2007 when it was announced we traded our pick for Ray, I was kinda dumbfounded. Sure he made us better, but anyone would make a 24-win team better. Ainge threw away a great pick for a bottom-seed playoff team? What a fool!

Then everything fell into place.

Sometimes you have to take big risks for big rewards. There was no guarantee KG would agree after trading for Ray, but Ainge took the chance that he would. And he did.

Maybe CP3 leads us to a championship, loves Boston, and recruits Dwight. Or maybe he hates it here and leaves after underwhelming everyone. Then we can start over with a buttload of cap space (Ray, KG, CP3, JO off the books - just Pierce, rookie contracts, and maybe Green/West and a bunch of veterans), maybe even enough to lure two max FA's.


  When  Ainge made those deals he had a pile of assets he took years to accumulate and currently does not have.

Assets like Gerald Green and Sebastian Telfair? Or maybe you mean Ratliff's contract? Jeff Green and Avery Bradley would get a better package than what GG/Telfair were worth. JO is an expiring contract.

His bread and butter was a number 5 pick and a big who showed some potential.

Now he has the Clippers pick (which should be somewhere in the low teens) and a proven All-Star PG with a ring who is only 25.

I don't think we were in such an enviable position back in 2007. Ainge got Ray on the cheap coming off ankle injuries than flanked McHale/Taylor with a poopoo platter of nothing.
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Re: Chris Brousard - "CP3 won't sign an extension with the c's"
« Reply #51 on: November 30, 2011, 07:35:56 PM »

Offline JBcat

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On a team as bad we are at rebounding , we need every board we can get.

That's like not wanting to move a Center because he can pass well, yet has no post moves and doesn't know how to box out.

Besides, you really think Rondo makes a significant difference in rebounding?

I'd like to add the rebounding stats last season show they are equals in that area.   Per 48 minutes they are 5.6 for Rondo and 5.5 for Paul.

Re: Chris Brousard - "CP3 won't sign an extension with the c's"
« Reply #52 on: November 30, 2011, 07:40:17 PM »

Offline Jon

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  Sorry I try to deal in reality.  Reality is there is almost zero chance Boston gets both Paul and Howard.

  Are you guys also going to criticize Ainge when he doesn't live up to your pipe dreams?   

  You need assets to build a great team.  Ainge has shown that once.  He accumulated various assets and turned them into gold.  Right now I don't believe the Celtics have the kind of assets that will eventually land Chris Paul and Dwight Howard in other cities.

  If Ainge can get an extension I am all for trading Rondo for Paul and quite a few others but not for a one and done.  I wouldn't do it with out assurances that you're not trading your only young asset for a guy who may or may not make you better short term and wont be here more then one year. 

  Competent organizations play the percentages.  The percentages are stacked pretty high against either Howard or Paul landing in Boston in the near future.
 


You're right.  The chances of us getting Howard and Paul are extremely small.  Anyone who thinks that they aren't is kidding themselves.  

However, I also think you're kidding yourself if you think that the chances of us winning a title anytime soon any other way are any better.  In fact, they're probably worse.  

The simple fact of the matter is that the NBA is a league dominated by who has the best superstars.  That's why over the past 30 years, it's essentially been Magic, Bird, Isaiah, Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan who've won the bulk of the championships.  This isn't like baseball or football where you can simply build a team of good players, coach it well, and expect to be a contender.  Talent wins out.  

So what would you suggest we do?  A team led by Rondo and Pierce is going to be too good to get in the lottery and have us hit it big there.  Could we potentially draft a stud in the teens or early 20s?  Maybe, but that's a very long shot too.  The C's need to find a way to get new top, top notch talent on this team.  

And that's where Paul comes in.  Now, I do think it's a long shot he comes here, and an even longer shot he stays here.  But assuming the C's actually overcome that longshot, I think he improves the chances of us landing Howard.  

Now, say what you like about Rondo vs. Paul, but Paul is the bigger name that someone like Howard will consider coming Boston to play with.  

Again, it's a very long shot.  But the chances of us building another contender anytime soon is a long shot in general.  The Knicks haven't won a title in 40 years and they got lucky with the draft with Ewing and had a big payroll.  We need to find some way to get top tier talent here, and I don't know a better gamble than Paul and Howard other praying we get the next Kobe/LeBron/Durant at the 20th pick.  

Re: Chris Brousard - "CP3 won't sign an extension with the c's"
« Reply #53 on: November 30, 2011, 07:55:58 PM »

Offline BballTim

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On a team as bad we are at rebounding , we need every board we can get.

That's like not wanting to move a Center because he can pass well, yet has no post moves and doesn't know how to box out.

Besides, you really think Rondo makes a significant difference in rebounding?

  In the playoffs, if you look at players that have played 20 or more games, he's one of the 10 best rebounding guards of all time. He also led the team in rpg against the Lakers in the finals in 2010.

Re: Chris Brousard - "CP3 won't sign an extension with the c's"
« Reply #54 on: November 30, 2011, 07:59:02 PM »

Offline Larry for 3

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lol at Brousard.  If you remember KG said the same thing in 07 about not wanting to come to Boston.   Here's the link to the espn article  dated june 23, 2007

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2912075
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Re: Chris Brousard - "CP3 won't sign an extension with the c's"
« Reply #55 on: November 30, 2011, 08:03:00 PM »

Offline BballTim

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lol at Brousard.  If you remember KG said the same thing in 07 about not wanting to come to Boston.   Here's the link to the espn article  dated june 23, 2007

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2912075

  We had to make a significant improvement to the team to attract KG. Do we have a Wally/Delonte/pick for Ray Allen up our sleeve before we try and get CP3?

Re: Chris Brousard - "CP3 won't sign an extension with the c's"
« Reply #56 on: November 30, 2011, 08:18:14 PM »

Offline Larry for 3

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lol at Brousard.  If you remember KG said the same thing in 07 about not wanting to come to Boston.   Here's the link to the espn article  dated june 23, 2007

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2912075

  We had to make a significant improvement to the team to attract KG. Do we have a Wally/Delonte/pick for Ray Allen up our sleeve before we try and get CP3?

  You dont have to, this team with Paul has a better chance to win it this year IMO and if Paul doesnt re sign it's more cap space to rebuild which you would be doing anyway when KG & Ray gone. I dont see Rondo elevating his game to be a huge scorer which he would have to be with no big 3.  If Rondo was on another team IMO he would not be as effective as he is playing with 3 HOFers.  And I think Doc is done with him as well.  You think Rondo's moody now,  what's he gonna be when this team goes down to 40 wins as early as next year.  Rondo cant carry a team like CP3 can. I say you do the trade anyway and try to convince Paul to resign.  Dont discount Doc. I'll bet he can convince Paul to stay. Cause i dont see this team signing D12 as a free agent,  now if Paul is here long term?  I like our chances better to get D12 in green
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Re: Chris Brousard - "CP3 won't sign an extension with the c's"
« Reply #57 on: November 30, 2011, 08:24:20 PM »

Offline prov1ml34

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lol at Brousard.  If you remember KG said the same thing in 07 about not wanting to come to Boston.   Here's the link to the espn article  dated june 23, 2007

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2912075

  We had to make a significant improvement to the team to attract KG. Do we have a Wally/Delonte/pick for Ray Allen up our sleeve before we try and get CP3?


I think this potential CP3 move IS the Ray Allen move with Howard being the Garnett proverbial '2nd shoe to drop'. The only difference is that Ray wasn't going to be a free agent after the 1st season. I wrote this in the Rondo-Paul trade thread, but I think Danny should do this trade with the risk Paul doesn't sign the extension at the trade time. Once he is here we have a year to convince him to sign not to mention he may be enough along with Danny, Doc, and a newly resigned for vet min Big 3 to entice Howard to come here next therefore giving him (CP3) a reason to sign long term as well. Otherwise we sign and trade Paul at the end of the season.....
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Re: Chris Brousard - "CP3 won't sign an extension with the c's"
« Reply #58 on: November 30, 2011, 08:35:00 PM »

Offline Jon

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lol at Brousard.  If you remember KG said the same thing in 07 about not wanting to come to Boston.   Here's the link to the espn article  dated june 23, 2007

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2912075

  We had to make a significant improvement to the team to attract KG. Do we have a Wally/Delonte/pick for Ray Allen up our sleeve before we try and get CP3?


I think this potential CP3 move IS the Ray Allen move with Howard being the Garnett proverbial '2nd shoe to drop'. The only difference is that Ray wasn't going to be a free agent after the 1st season. I wrote this in the Rondo-Paul trade thread, but I think Danny should do this trade with the risk Paul doesn't sign the extension at the trade time. Once he is here we have a year to convince him to sign not to mention he may be enough along with Danny, Doc, and a newly resigned for vet min Big 3 to entice Howard to come here next therefore giving him (CP3) a reason to sign long term as well. Otherwise we sign and trade Paul at the end of the season.....

The problem is, KG saw a chance to win multiple titles with Pierce and Allen.  All Paul can hope for with this aging core is a shot at a title this year, and then that he can convince Howard to join him and Pierce in Boston.  But that's a lot more to sell Paul on than we had to sell KG on. 

Re: Chris Brousard - "CP3 won't sign an extension with the c's"
« Reply #59 on: November 30, 2011, 08:41:58 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I'd believe this only if the team comes out and says they had a deal in place for CP3 and it fell through because they couldn't get an extension signed.