Chris Brousard - "CP3 won't sign an extension with the c's"

[CoachBo]

If you have the chance to land Chris Paul for Rondo(with other parts also moving) you have to do it. Here's why:


1. Simply put, Chris Paul is the better overall, all-around player. Both players are so close in all aspects of their game as to be indistinguishable from the other. But Paul's ability to shoot FTs and from long range make him the better player.

2. Having the better player with this group of vets gives this team a better chance to win this year. The C's problems this year will not be defensively. Their problems, especially with older legs and players taking back ends of back-to-backs off, will be offensively and Paul will help in that regard much more than Rondo being here would.

3. Regardless of what Paul is saying now about signing an extension here, his best contract will come from Boston after he is traded here. Therefore, if the C's covertly and Paul overtly, could tell Howard that the C's will give him a max contract to come play in Boston with CP3 in 2012, Paul will in fact re-sign here if he knows Howard is coming here too. And he wouldn't have to re-sign until after Howard does. And if Howard doesn't sign here Chris Paul has another choice. To re-sign elsewhere for a smaller contract than he could get here or:

4. He could be sign and traded with his max contract amount given to him by Boston which then could land Boston, young assets to build with, a huge trade exception to deal with, draft picks or any combination of any and all of these things.


Really the only scenario where Boston loses out is if Paul decides to resign elsewhere for a smaller contract in years and dollars than he could get here by signing with the Celtics long term or being sign and traded by the Celtics.

And if he is sign and traded, its better long term for the Celtics not to have Rondo, amnesty Pierce and to be pathetic for several years accumulating high 1st round picks than it would be to have Pierce, Rondo, and mid level talent surrounding them from the cap space the Celtics will have and being mediocre for a decade.

Exactly. TP.

[Moranis]

TP Nick, dead on the money!

What worries me, though, and GreenFaith mentioned it, is CP3's knees condition. He clearly can become a "Brandon Roy 2.0", which would be a nightmare scenario for us if we were able to sign him long term. I hope Danny really gets a good look at Paul's medical condition if he ever has to pull the trigger on such a trade.

That's why you don't sign him long term until after you trade for him.  You take the 1 year of Paul, hope you win a title and with a year of your medical staff you figure out if you even want to sign him long term (maybe you just do a sign and trade and get something for him).

[chambers]

TP Nick, dead on the money!

What worries me, though, and GreenFaith mentioned it, is CP3's knees condition. He clearly can become a "Brandon Roy 2.0", which would be a nightmare scenario for us if we were able to sign him long term. I hope Danny really gets a good look at Paul's medical condition if he ever has to pull the trigger on such a trade.

That's why you don't sign him long term until after you trade for him.  You take the 1 year of Paul, hope you win a title and with a year of your medical staff you figure out if you even want to sign him long term (maybe you just do a sign and trade and get something for him).

Or he simply waits till the end of the season, walks over to New York for max money, leaving us with no point guard and no Dwight Howard.
Very risky business.

[action781]

TP Nick, dead on the money!

What worries me, though, and GreenFaith mentioned it, is CP3's knees condition. He clearly can become a "Brandon Roy 2.0", which would be a nightmare scenario for us if we were able to sign him long term. I hope Danny really gets a good look at Paul's medical condition if he ever has to pull the trigger on such a trade.

That's why you don't sign him long term until after you trade for him.  You take the 1 year of Paul, hope you win a title and with a year of your medical staff you figure out if you even want to sign him long term (maybe you just do a sign and trade and get something for him).

Or he simply waits till the end of the season, walks over to New York for max money, leaving us with no point guard and no Dwight Howard.
Very risky business.

But the point is... who cares if he does because what's the alternative if we don't trade for CP3?  We have Rondo, an aging Pierce, and nobody else, which means our team floats around in mediocrity for several years and just delays the rebuilding period.  Look at the other teams around... Miami, NYK, OKC...  I'm astounded that anyone can think that Rondo is the future of any promising franchise in a league with those stacked teams.

[action781]

If you have the chance to land Chris Paul for Rondo(with other parts also moving) you have to do it. Here's why:


1. Simply put, Chris Paul is the better overall, all-around player. Both players are so close in all aspects of their game as to be indistinguishable from the other. But Paul's ability to shoot FTs and from long range make him the better player.

2. Having the better player with this group of vets gives this team a better chance to win this year. The C's problems this year will not be defensively. Their problems, especially with older legs and players taking back ends of back-to-backs off, will be offensively and Paul will help in that regard much more than Rondo being here would.

3. Regardless of what Paul is saying now about signing an extension here, his best contract will come from Boston after he is traded here. Therefore, if the C's covertly and Paul overtly, could tell Howard that the C's will give him a max contract to come play in Boston with CP3 in 2012, Paul will in fact re-sign here if he knows Howard is coming here too. And he wouldn't have to re-sign until after Howard does. And if Howard doesn't sign here Chris Paul has another choice. To re-sign elsewhere for a smaller contract than he could get here or:

4. He could be sign and traded with his max contract amount given to him by Boston which then could land Boston, young assets to build with, a huge trade exception to deal with, draft picks or any combination of any and all of these things.


Really the only scenario where Boston loses out is if Paul decides to resign elsewhere for a smaller contract in years and dollars than he could get here by signing with the Celtics long term or being sign and traded by the Celtics.

And if he is sign and traded, its better long term for the Celtics not to have Rondo, amnesty Pierce and to be pathetic for several years accumulating high 1st round picks than it would be to have Pierce, Rondo, and mid level talent surrounding them from the cap space the Celtics will have and being mediocre for a decade.

  I agree with much of what you said but you are still making one huge....and IMO wrong assumption.

  That assumption is that Boston has the kind of assets it is going to take to get Chris Paul from New Orleans which IMO it doesn't.  

  People need to start bracing themselves for the idea that neither Chris Paul or Dwight Howard are going to land in Boston because getting one of them would take all of our assets and then some IMO and getting two of them is almost impossible unless one of the two hit free agency which I highly doubt either will.  If you have to trade one or two of the big three's expiring contracts, along with Rondo and picks to get it done then not only are you once again falling short of being a true title contender you are also almost certainly taking on bad contracts in return which in turn would end the idea of having cap space going forward.

  Also people keep saying stuff like "Danny get it done" like he is working in a bubble where there are no other teams with better assets to make these kind of deals then the assets the Celtics currently have.  There are other teams involved and those other teams in many cases as it currently stands have better assets then the Celtics have to make the kind of deals it will take to get Paul or Howard.  If they actually hit free agency then it is a different story but I don't think they will and even if they do Boston wont be high on their list of desired destinations.

  I hate to be the one who is p---ing in everyone beer but the chances of Boston landing Paul are minimal.  The chances of them landing Howard are also minimal.  The chances of both landing in Boston are so minimal that they probably shouldn't even be discussed by rational people.

You may or may not be right.  Rondo is a 2x all-star and 2x first team all-defensive player.  He is quite the asset.  Are there better assets?  Yes, very possibly.  But are those teams willing to roll the dice on CP3 not signing an extension?  I think not, which really makes me think Boston might be the best landing spot for him.  If you do claim that there are other teams with assets that NO would prefer to Boston's, please tell me who the assets are and why that team would be willing to trade them away for potentially just one year of CP.  Boston is in a unique position were they should be willing to give up that intriguing young asset on a gamble for a championship this year.

[bfrombleacher]

TP Nick, dead on the money!

What worries me, though, and GreenFaith mentioned it, is CP3's knees condition. He clearly can become a "Brandon Roy 2.0", which would be a nightmare scenario for us if we were able to sign him long term. I hope Danny really gets a good look at Paul's medical condition if he ever has to pull the trigger on such a trade.

That's why you don't sign him long term until after you trade for him.  You take the 1 year of Paul, hope you win a title and with a year of your medical staff you figure out if you even want to sign him long term (maybe you just do a sign and trade and get something for him).

Or he simply waits till the end of the season, walks over to New York for max money, leaving us with no point guard and no Dwight Howard.
Very risky business.

But the point is... who cares if he does because what's the alternative if we don't trade for CP3?  We have Rondo, an aging Pierce, and nobody else, which means our team floats around in mediocrity for several years and just delays the rebuilding period.  Look at the other teams around... Miami, NYK, OKC...  I'm astounded that anyone can think that Rondo is the future of any promising franchise in a league with those stacked teams.

Rondo can learn a jumpshot. Chris Paul cannot learn knees. Rondo costs a Jeff Green priced player less than Chris Paul.

If this year tanks, DA can do what he did last year - blow it up by trade deadline.

Rondo is in good terms with Josh Smith and Rudy Gay. OJ Mayo has expressed interest in playing with Rondo. There are good FA centers coming up. With cap space in 2012 we'd still compete and compete well.

[BballTim]

If you have the chance to land Chris Paul for Rondo(with other parts also moving) you have to do it. Here's why:


1. Simply put, Chris Paul is the better overall, all-around player. Both players are so close in all aspects of their game as to be indistinguishable from the other. But Paul's ability to shoot FTs and from long range make him the better player.

2. Having the better player with this group of vets gives this team a better chance to win this year. The C's problems this year will not be defensively. Their problems, especially with older legs and players taking back ends of back-to-backs off, will be offensively and Paul will help in that regard much more than Rondo being here would.

  You really have to factor in health here. If Paul regains his explosiveness and returns to his pre-injury level of play then he's definitely the better player. If he doesn't then his playing better than Rondo was in Nov/Dec is far from a given. You can argue that Rondo might not reach that level again, but if Paul's health stays where it is then Rondo's capable of being the better player.

[action781]

TP Nick, dead on the money!

What worries me, though, and GreenFaith mentioned it, is CP3's knees condition. He clearly can become a "Brandon Roy 2.0", which would be a nightmare scenario for us if we were able to sign him long term. I hope Danny really gets a good look at Paul's medical condition if he ever has to pull the trigger on such a trade.

That's why you don't sign him long term until after you trade for him.  You take the 1 year of Paul, hope you win a title and with a year of your medical staff you figure out if you even want to sign him long term (maybe you just do a sign and trade and get something for him).

Or he simply waits till the end of the season, walks over to New York for max money, leaving us with no point guard and no Dwight Howard.
Very risky business.

But the point is... who cares if he does because what's the alternative if we don't trade for CP3?  We have Rondo, an aging Pierce, and nobody else, which means our team floats around in mediocrity for several years and just delays the rebuilding period.  Look at the other teams around... Miami, NYK, OKC...  I'm astounded that anyone can think that Rondo is the future of any promising franchise in a league with those stacked teams.

Rondo can learn a jumpshot. Chris Paul cannot learn knees. Rondo costs a Jeff Green priced player less than Chris Paul.

If this year tanks, DA can do what he did last year - blow it up by trade deadline.

Rondo is in good terms with Josh Smith and Rudy Gay. OJ Mayo has expressed interest in playing with Rondo. There are good FA centers coming up. With cap space in 2012 we'd still compete and compete well.

If it's so easy for Rondo to learn a jumpshot, then why hasn't he yet?  You're right that knees can't be learned, but I'd say knees are as easy to be "fixed" by surgery as a jumpshot is to learn.

Even if all the stars align and we somehow got Josh Smith and Rudy Gay at their contract values... we would have little money left to be spent on any other players and would still have a worse core than Miami, NYK, OKC, and others.  I suppose it's arguable, but I don't think we'd really compete that well.

[dark_lord]

TP Nick, dead on the money!

What worries me, though, and GreenFaith mentioned it, is CP3's knees condition. He clearly can become a "Brandon Roy 2.0", which would be a nightmare scenario for us if we were able to sign him long term. I hope Danny really gets a good look at Paul's medical condition if he ever has to pull the trigger on such a trade.

That's why you don't sign him long term until after you trade for him.  You take the 1 year of Paul, hope you win a title and with a year of your medical staff you figure out if you even want to sign him long term (maybe you just do a sign and trade and get something for him).

Or he simply waits till the end of the season, walks over to New York for max money, leaving us with no point guard and no Dwight Howard.
Very risky business.

But the point is... who cares if he does because what's the alternative if we don't trade for CP3?  We have Rondo, an aging Pierce, and nobody else, which means our team floats around in mediocrity for several years and just delays the rebuilding period.  Look at the other teams around... Miami, NYK, OKC...  I'm astounded that anyone can think that Rondo is the future of any promising franchise in a league with those stacked teams.

Rondo can learn a jumpshot. Chris Paul cannot learn knees. Rondo costs a Jeff Green priced player less than Chris Paul.

he has yet to learn a jumpshot. god forbid something happened to rondo and he got injured and it impacted his athleticism, he would be in trouble with regards to competing as a starting pg.  paul has attributes which are enhanced by his athleticism, while rondo has athleticism which enhance his game.  

i prefer paul in a heartbeat, but am content with rondo if he remains.  i like rondo a lot and think he is fun to watch. im just being objective in the situation.

[action781]

If you have the chance to land Chris Paul for Rondo(with other parts also moving) you have to do it. Here's why:


1. Simply put, Chris Paul is the better overall, all-around player. Both players are so close in all aspects of their game as to be indistinguishable from the other. But Paul's ability to shoot FTs and from long range make him the better player.

2. Having the better player with this group of vets gives this team a better chance to win this year. The C's problems this year will not be defensively. Their problems, especially with older legs and players taking back ends of back-to-backs off, will be offensively and Paul will help in that regard much more than Rondo being here would.

  You really have to factor in health here. If Paul regains his explosiveness and returns to his pre-injury level of play then he's definitely the better player. If he doesn't then his playing better than Rondo was in Nov/Dec is far from a given. You can argue that Rondo might not reach that level again, but if Paul's health stays where it is then Rondo's capable of being the better player.

I hear a lot of talk about Paul's health.  A lot of citing his '11 regular season stats and the decline of them over the past few years.  Did anybody see that LAL playoff series though?  I thought he looked perfectly healthy then and he hasn't experienced any new injuries or setbacks since then.  I think the injury concerns are being overstated here.  Sometimes veteran players coast in the regular season.  We've seen it ourselves with our own players in recent years.  Regular season poor performance doesn't always equate to health issues or skill decline.  Sometimes it's just saving themselves for the time when it really matters - the playoffs.

[action781]

god forbid something happened to rondo and he got injured and it impacted his athleticism, he would be in trouble with regards to competing as a starting pg.  paul has attributes which are enhanced by his athleticism, while rondo has athleticism which enhance his game.  

In addition to the injury scenario... what is going to happen to each of Rondo and Paul as they simply age.  I think Rondo is going to have a precipitous decline as he loses his athleticism (like Lebron and Wade will), whereas Paul will be able to use his other skills to have a slower decline (like Pierce and Kobe have).

[CelticsFanNC]

If you have the chance to land Chris Paul for Rondo(with other parts also moving) you have to do it. Here's why:


1. Simply put, Chris Paul is the better overall, all-around player. Both players are so close in all aspects of their game as to be indistinguishable from the other. But Paul's ability to shoot FTs and from long range make him the better player.

2. Having the better player with this group of vets gives this team a better chance to win this year. The C's problems this year will not be defensively. Their problems, especially with older legs and players taking back ends of back-to-backs off, will be offensively and Paul will help in that regard much more than Rondo being here would.

3. Regardless of what Paul is saying now about signing an extension here, his best contract will come from Boston after he is traded here. Therefore, if the C's covertly and Paul overtly, could tell Howard that the C's will give him a max contract to come play in Boston with CP3 in 2012, Paul will in fact re-sign here if he knows Howard is coming here too. And he wouldn't have to re-sign until after Howard does. And if Howard doesn't sign here Chris Paul has another choice. To re-sign elsewhere for a smaller contract than he could get here or:

4. He could be sign and traded with his max contract amount given to him by Boston which then could land Boston, young assets to build with, a huge trade exception to deal with, draft picks or any combination of any and all of these things.


Really the only scenario where Boston loses out is if Paul decides to resign elsewhere for a smaller contract in years and dollars than he could get here by signing with the Celtics long term or being sign and traded by the Celtics.

And if he is sign and traded, its better long term for the Celtics not to have Rondo, amnesty Pierce and to be pathetic for several years accumulating high 1st round picks than it would be to have Pierce, Rondo, and mid level talent surrounding them from the cap space the Celtics will have and being mediocre for a decade.

  I agree with much of what you said but you are still making one huge....and IMO wrong assumption.

  That assumption is that Boston has the kind of assets it is going to take to get Chris Paul from New Orleans which IMO it doesn't.  

  People need to start bracing themselves for the idea that neither Chris Paul or Dwight Howard are going to land in Boston because getting one of them would take all of our assets and then some IMO and getting two of them is almost impossible unless one of the two hit free agency which I highly doubt either will.  If you have to trade one or two of the big three's expiring contracts, along with Rondo and picks to get it done then not only are you once again falling short of being a true title contender you are also almost certainly taking on bad contracts in return which in turn would end the idea of having cap space going forward.

  Also people keep saying stuff like "Danny get it done" like he is working in a bubble where there are no other teams with better assets to make these kind of deals then the assets the Celtics currently have.  There are other teams involved and those other teams in many cases as it currently stands have better assets then the Celtics have to make the kind of deals it will take to get Paul or Howard.  If they actually hit free agency then it is a different story but I don't think they will and even if they do Boston wont be high on their list of desired destinations.

  I hate to be the one who is p---ing in everyone beer but the chances of Boston landing Paul are minimal.  The chances of them landing Howard are also minimal.  The chances of both landing in Boston are so minimal that they probably shouldn't even be discussed by rational people.

You may or may not be right.  Rondo is a 2x all-star and 2x first team all-defensive player.  He is quite the asset.  Are there better assets?  Yes, very possibly.  But are those teams willing to roll the dice on CP3 not signing an extension?  I think not, which really makes me think Boston might be the best landing spot for him.  If you do claim that there are other teams with assets that NO would prefer to Boston's, please tell me who the assets are and why that team would be willing to trade them away for potentially just one year of CP.  Boston is in a unique position were they should be willing to give up that intriguing young asset on a gamble for a championship this year.

  You don't think that there are at least a handful of teams with more young talent and better draft picks then the Celtics have?  All I can say to that is look again.  We have Rondo.  We might have Green but that is certainly not a sure thing.  Same with Davis and I highly doubt he is high on anyone's list.  That's about it for young talented assets(in 2007 we had far more in terms of young assets then we do now).  We have tons of expiring contracts over the next two seasons but if you deal them away at this point you still have to fill the holes left behind by dealing away core members of your roster.

  To me the best bet, and what is likely to happen is the Celtics will let those contracts expire and then have their pick among the free agents a rung below Howard and Paul.

  Don't get me wrong.  I'd love to have either or both of them but I'm not living in some dream world where Boston gets whomever they want because that's not reality.  I believe in Danny Ainge probably more then most people here do but he is not a miracle worker.  Red Auerbach was able to turn straw into gold years ago but today that's just not realistic to expect.  The same people who are pinning all of their hopes on landing Howard and Paul are some of the same ones who will be here criticizing Ainge if he cannot fulfill their wildest dreams which to me is completely ridiculous.  

[action781]

 I agree with much of what you said but you are still making one huge....and IMO wrong assumption.

  That assumption is that Boston has the kind of assets it is going to take to get Chris Paul from New Orleans which IMO it doesn't.  

  People need to start bracing themselves for the idea that neither Chris Paul or Dwight Howard are going to land in Boston because getting one of them would take all of our assets and then some IMO and getting two of them is almost impossible unless one of the two hit free agency which I highly doubt either will.  If you have to trade one or two of the big three's expiring contracts, along with Rondo and picks to get it done then not only are you once again falling short of being a true title contender you are also almost certainly taking on bad contracts in return which in turn would end the idea of having cap space going forward.

  Also people keep saying stuff like "Danny get it done" like he is working in a bubble where there are no other teams with better assets to make these kind of deals then the assets the Celtics currently have.  There are other teams involved and those other teams in many cases as it currently stands have better assets then the Celtics have to make the kind of deals it will take to get Paul or Howard.  If they actually hit free agency then it is a different story but I don't think they will and even if they do Boston wont be high on their list of desired destinations.

  I hate to be the one who is p---ing in everyone beer but the chances of Boston landing Paul are minimal.  The chances of them landing Howard are also minimal.  The chances of both landing in Boston are so minimal that they probably shouldn't even be discussed by rational people.

You may or may not be right.  Rondo is a 2x all-star and 2x first team all-defensive player.  He is quite the asset.  Are there better assets?  Yes, very possibly.  But are those teams willing to roll the dice on CP3 not signing an extension?  I think not, which really makes me think Boston might be the best landing spot for him.  If you do claim that there are other teams with assets that NO would prefer to Boston's, please tell me who the assets are and why that team would be willing to trade them away for potentially just one year of CP.  Boston is in a unique position were they should be willing to give up that intriguing young asset on a gamble for a championship this year.

  You don't think that there are at least a handful of teams with more young talent and better draft picks then the Celtics have?  All I can say to that is look again.  We have Rondo.  We might have Green but that is certainly not a sure thing.  Same with Davis and I highly doubt he is high on anyone's list.  That's about it for young talented assets(in 2007 we had far more in terms of young assets then we do now).  We have tons of expiring contracts over the next two seasons but if you deal them away at this point you still have to fill the holes left behind by dealing away core members of your roster.

I don't think you addressed at all what I said in my post.  Please re-read the parts I have underlined.  You say to look again.  Well I have looked, so please help me out now if it's so obvious.  Which assets are out there that these teams would be OK dealing away for one season of CP?

[GreenFaith1819]

TP Nick, dead on the money!

What worries me, though, and GreenFaith mentioned it, is CP3's knees condition. He clearly can become a "Brandon Roy 2.0", which would be a nightmare scenario for us if we were able to sign him long term. I hope Danny really gets a good look at Paul's medical condition if he ever has to pull the trigger on such a trade.

That's why you don't sign him long term until after you trade for him.  You take the 1 year of Paul, hope you win a title and with a year of your medical staff you figure out if you even want to sign him long term (maybe you just do a sign and trade and get something for him).

But see, that's the thing.

First off, I love Chris Paul as a player, and I think he'd fit in Boston. But looking at our injury history (KG's knee, Rondo's takedown by Wade, Perk's knee, Powe's injury etc) - do we still take a chance here?

I say no. Don't do it. Even if NOH changes their minds and do a straight-up trade for Rondo. I know this is extreme, but the way injuries have depleted this team over the years, I'd expect Chris to injure himself before we even got any value out of him.

And then we are left with no Rondo and no value for Chris. Ainge then would probably start rebuilding in earnest.

My thing is - let's just add some pieces and run with our current Big Four.

Just my take. Not trying to be negative, but looking at things based off of our track record here.

Injuries have taken SO MUCH from this team....it is for this reason that I'd have to pass here. I'll keep our number 2 or 3 PG in Rondo, who I expect to continue improvement.

[action781]

I say no. Don't do it. Even if NOH changes their minds and do a straight-up trade for Rondo. I know this is extreme, but the way injuries have depleted this team over the years, I'd expect Chris to injure himself before we even got any value out of him.

That is extremely pessimistic, haha

I'll keep our number 2 or 3 PG in Rondo, who I expect to continue improvement.

And that is awfully optimistic.  I don't see any world where Rondo is a top 3 PG (as long as Rose, CP, and D-Will reside in that world) and I expect Wall and possibly others to surpass Rondo in the future.