Who Do You Blame (Merged)

[PosImpos]

I herby decree that all future small market title winners receive an asterix next to their rings.

There is a constant battle within each side.

Within the players' side, the mid-class want to earn their pay checks while the superstars want to dictate where they can play.

Owners side have to deal with small markets crying to large markets. Small markets want to handcuff large markets so the small markets can "compete".

Small markets are most likely going to get more of the profits from the large markets through revenue sharing, but they also want to hold the power to keep their players on a leash.

So if it were not for greed, when a small market team wins a title in the future, they won it because of a handicap.

So lets put an astersk next to every title from a big market team won prior to this lockout, since they won in a system that greatly favored them.

This "system that greatly favored them" is life.

That's life dude.

So, it's "life" when big market teams have an inherent monetary advantage over smaller teams just because of where they are located, but it's an unfair advantage bordering on cheating (hence the asterisk) when ALL of the teams in the league agree to change the system so that smaller teams are operating on more even footing?



To me, all of the teams getting together and agreeing to change the system so that there is less of a resource and opportunity gap between the small market teams and the big market teams is life, too.

[PosImpos]

It might also be self-selection bias... forum-goers are the hardest of the hardcore. I personally think that the owner's position looks more reasonable to a casual follower of the lockout than it does to someone who digs into the details, i.e. the folks who would tend to vote in this thread's poll in the first place.

Except there are plenty of people who follow the NBA and this lockout very closely who don't sympathize with the players' position the way you do.

[Interceptor]

Except there are plenty of people who follow the NBA and this lockout very closely who don't sympathize with the players' position the way you do.

Except 50% off on alternate Tuesdays, and other non sequiturs.

I have a feeling that there is a different breakdown of owner/players/both between the vast majority of casual fans, and those who, say, have a "Ray Allen" Google alert. It is just a feeling, but I have stated it strongly and this makes it correct.

[PosImpos]

Except there are plenty of people who follow the NBA and this lockout very closely who don't sympathize with the players' position the way you do.

Except 50% off on alternate Tuesdays, and other non sequiturs.

I have a feeling that there is a different breakdown of owner/players/both between the vast majority of casual fans, and those who, say, have a "Ray Allen" Google alert. It is just a feeling, but I have stated it strongly and this makes it correct.

I don't doubt that there is truth to what you say, but the way you initially stated it implied that people who are really following this closely and know what's going on feel one way, and casual fans feel the other.

My point is just that smart people who are big fans of the NBA and who have followed this lockout closely could find reason to blame either side.

[LB3533]

I herby decree that all future small market title winners receive an asterix next to their rings.

There is a constant battle within each side.

Within the players' side, the mid-class want to earn their pay checks while the superstars want to dictate where they can play.

Owners side have to deal with small markets crying to large markets. Small markets want to handcuff large markets so the small markets can "compete".

Small markets are most likely going to get more of the profits from the large markets through revenue sharing, but they also want to hold the power to keep their players on a leash.

So if it were not for greed, when a small market team wins a title in the future, they won it because of a handicap.

So lets put an astersk next to every title from a big market team won prior to this lockout, since they won in a system that greatly favored them.

This "system that greatly favored them" is life.

That's life dude.

So, it's "life" when big market teams have an inherent monetary advantage over smaller teams just because of where they are located, but it's an unfair advantage bordering on cheating (hence the asterisk) when ALL of the teams in the league agree to change the system so that smaller teams are operating on more even footing?



To me, all of the teams getting together and agreeing to change the system so that there is less of a resource and opportunity gap between the small market teams and the big market teams is life, too.

Of course that is also life, called adaptation...changing with the times.

But dude, where in the new proposed CBA is there a written explanation of the new revenue sharing system??

The only exchange of revenue is the approx. give back of 280-330 million from players to owners.

That is the only revenue sharing going on outside of the luxury tax.

[indeedproceed]

I don't doubt that there is truth to what you say, but the way you initially stated it implied that people who are really following this closely and know what's going on feel one way, and casual fans feel the other.

My point is just that smart people who are big fans of the NBA and who have followed this lockout closely could find reason to blame either side.

Well I think both things are true, personally. I think its true that A) More devoted fans see the lockout differently than non-fans and casual fans, and B) People (smart has nothing to do with it) can find reasons to support either side that are perfectly logical and reasonable.

[LB3533]

I don't doubt that there is truth to what you say, but the way you initially stated it implied that people who are really following this closely and know what's going on feel one way, and casual fans feel the other.

My point is just that smart people who are big fans of the NBA and who have followed this lockout closely could find reason to blame either side.

Well I think both things are true, personally. I think its true that A) More devoted fans see the lockout differently than non-fans and casual fans, and B) People (smart has nothing to do with it) can find reasons to support either side that are perfectly logical and reasonable.

The majority of the "Casual" fans are going to side with the owners. These fans look at the players as nothing more than "entertainment mules".

"Hardcore fans" are going to side with the players because the players are what these fans have a connection with.

Basketball "purest fans" will side with the owners because well, we all know why.

[PosImpos]

I don't doubt that there is truth to what you say, but the way you initially stated it implied that people who are really following this closely and know what's going on feel one way, and casual fans feel the other.

My point is just that smart people who are big fans of the NBA and who have followed this lockout closely could find reason to blame either side.

Well I think both things are true, personally. I think its true that A) More devoted fans see the lockout differently than non-fans and casual fans, and B) People (smart has nothing to do with it) can find reasons to support either side that are perfectly logical and reasonable.

The majority of the "Casual" fans are going to side with the owners. These fans look at the players as nothing more than "entertainment mules".

"Hardcore fans" are going to side with the players because the players are what these fans have a connection with.

Basketball "purest fans" will side with the owners because well, we all know why.

I don't know why?

[Donoghus]

I don't doubt that there is truth to what you say, but the way you initially stated it implied that people who are really following this closely and know what's going on feel one way, and casual fans feel the other.

My point is just that smart people who are big fans of the NBA and who have followed this lockout closely could find reason to blame either side.

Well I think both things are true, personally. I think its true that A) More devoted fans see the lockout differently than non-fans and casual fans, and B) People (smart has nothing to do with it) can find reasons to support either side that are perfectly logical and reasonable.

The majority of the "Casual" fans are going to side with the owners. These fans look at the players as nothing more than "entertainment mules".

"Hardcore fans" are going to side with the players because the players are what these fans have a connection with.

Basketball "purest fans" will side with the owners because well, we all know why.

I don't know why?

Yeah, I don't know either.

I love being told what side I should be rooting for because of some psycho-analysis on a basketball messageboard.  Hope I'm siding with the side I'm supposed to be.   

[StartOrien]

Owners just finished up a 20 minute conference call.

Billy Hunter?

[StartOrien]

I hope that one day after he's retired David Stern writes a bit of a 'tell all' and goes through this negotiation. I'm very curious to see the motivation behind some of his tactics, and if I had expected the courts to be involved in this deal.

[LB3533]

I don't doubt that there is truth to what you say, but the way you initially stated it implied that people who are really following this closely and know what's going on feel one way, and casual fans feel the other.

My point is just that smart people who are big fans of the NBA and who have followed this lockout closely could find reason to blame either side.

Well I think both things are true, personally. I think its true that A) More devoted fans see the lockout differently than non-fans and casual fans, and B) People (smart has nothing to do with it) can find reasons to support either side that are perfectly logical and reasonable.

The majority of the "Casual" fans are going to side with the owners. These fans look at the players as nothing more than "entertainment mules".

"Hardcore fans" are going to side with the players because the players are what these fans have a connection with.

Basketball "purest fans" will side with the owners because well, we all know why.

I don't know why?

Yeah, I don't know either.

I love being told what side I should be rooting for because of some psycho-analysis on a basketball messageboard.  Hope I'm siding with the side I'm supposed to be.   

No one should be telling anyone else what to think or who to root for.

Everyone should have their own free well to decide whatever for themselves.

[PosImpos]

Owners just finished up a 20 minute conference call.

Billy Hunter?

TP for AD reference

[LB3533]

There are reports that there are 10-12 hard line owners who are strongly against the current 5050 "ultimatum deal". (10 of which sent letters to David Stern, opposing Stern's deal).

There is a recent report from a source within the owners' side that nearly half of the owners are willing to miss the season than agree to a "bad deal".

"No one wants to miss the season, but about half of the owners are willing to miss the season if it means fighting for a better deal," the source said.

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/216623/Ownership_Source_Doubts_Season_Will_Be_Saved#ixzz1e4cowJ6r


Supposedly, 2/3rds (that is 66%) of the NBA teams lost money last year.

Why wouldn't there be more than 10-14 teams willing to miss the season? Why only around 33% and not all 66%?

Because the answer maybe is only 33% of teams are actually losing money.

 

[Roy H.]

Supposedly, 2/3rds (that is 66%) of the NBA teams lost money last year.

Why wouldn't there be more than 10-14 teams willing to miss the season? Why only around 33% and not all 66%?

Because the answer maybe is only 33% of teams are actually losing money.

Well, keep in mind that a lot of the teams that previously were losing money would now be making money under this deal.  We're talking about approximately a $10 million per franchise shift per season.  Teams that were barely losing money would now be profitable; I doubt they'd complain too loudly about that.

Also, of course, there are the owners who don't really care about money, as they see their franchises as a hobby / ego booster, rather than as a revenue maker.

When you look at those two factors, I'm surprised that as many as 10 to 14 teams would be willing to lose the season over relatively minor differences.  If the owners can get their 50 / 50 split, I would have expected way more than 16 - 20 franchises to sign on.