Who Do You Blame (Merged)

[Roy H.]

I herby decree that all future small market title winners receive an asterix next to their rings.

There is a constant battle within each side.

Within the players' side, the mid-class want to earn their pay checks while the superstars want to dictate where they can play.

Owners side have to deal with small markets crying to large markets. Small markets want to handcuff large markets so the small markets can "compete".

Small markets are most likely going to get more of the profits from the large markets through revenue sharing, but they also want to hold the power to keep their players on a leash.

So if it were not for greed, when a small market team wins a title in the future, they won it because of a handicap.

Eh...  Should we also put an asterisk next to every recent Super Bowl title, or many of the World Series titles? 

I have absolutely no issue with revenue sharing in sports.  It keeps the league strong nationwide, which increases money for everybody.

[Moranis]

I herby decree that all future small market title winners receive an asterix next to their rings.

There is a constant battle within each side.

Within the players' side, the mid-class want to earn their pay checks while the superstars want to dictate where they can play.

Owners side have to deal with small markets crying to large markets. Small markets want to handcuff large markets so the small markets can "compete".

Small markets are most likely going to get more of the profits from the large markets through revenue sharing, but they also want to hold the power to keep their players on a leash.

So if it were not for greed, when a small market team wins a title in the future, they won it because of a handicap.

Eh...  Should we also put an asterisk next to every recent Super Bowl title, or many of the World Series titles?  

I have absolutely no issue with revenue sharing in sports.  It keeps the league strong nationwide, which increases money for everybody.

I think the NFL got it right in that regard.  Everyone shares the television deal, game licenses, etc. equally, but also allows for some local only revenue to remain with the team.  Seems like the best system across the board, of course I'm not sure that system would work in other leagues where there are way more games and games throughout the whole week (I mean the NFL only has 5 spots it uses throughout the season - Thursday, Sunday, and Monday night and Sunday at 1 and 4).  

[Chris]

I herby decree that all future small market title winners receive an asterix next to their rings.

There is a constant battle within each side.

Within the players' side, the mid-class want to earn their pay checks while the superstars want to dictate where they can play.

Owners side have to deal with small markets crying to large markets. Small markets want to handcuff large markets so the small markets can "compete".

Small markets are most likely going to get more of the profits from the large markets through revenue sharing, but they also want to hold the power to keep their players on a leash.

So if it were not for greed, when a small market team wins a title in the future, they won it because of a handicap.

Eh...  Should we also put an asterisk next to every recent Super Bowl title, or many of the World Series titles?  

I have absolutely no issue with revenue sharing in sports.  It keeps the league strong nationwide, which increases money for everybody.

I think the NFL got it right in that regard.  Everyone shares the television deal, game licenses, etc. equally, but also allows for some local only revenue to remain with the team.  Seems like the best system across the board, of course I'm not sure that system would work in other leagues where there are way more games and games throughout the whole week (I mean the NFL only has 5 spots it uses throughout the season - Thursday, Sunday, and Monday night and Sunday at 1 and 4).  

The other thing about the NFL is that it is significantly more popular, which leads to a much better TV deal.  I know the current NBA deal is supposedly below market value, but from what I have heard, its not far enough below market value to make THAT much of a difference.

The other part of course is that the NFL has a hard cap.  It makes it easier for teams to share revenue, when their isn't the temptation to try to buy a championship, and have to worry about generating more income to pay for that, and still share the cash. 

The NFL owners can just simply watch the money roll in. 

[PosImpos]

I herby decree that all future small market title winners receive an asterix next to their rings.

There is a constant battle within each side.

Within the players' side, the mid-class want to earn their pay checks while the superstars want to dictate where they can play.

Owners side have to deal with small markets crying to large markets. Small markets want to handcuff large markets so the small markets can "compete".

Small markets are most likely going to get more of the profits from the large markets through revenue sharing, but they also want to hold the power to keep their players on a leash.

So if it were not for greed, when a small market team wins a title in the future, they won it because of a handicap.

So lets put an astersk next to every title from a big market team won prior to this lockout, since they won in a system that greatly favored them.

[nickagneta]

The difference in the polls for who to blame between this thread and the poll on the front page is pretty funny. In this thread its 2:1 blame the owners yet its the complete opposite on the front page.

[Roy H.]

The difference in the polls for who to blame between this thread and the poll on the front page is pretty funny. In this thread its 2:1 blame the owners yet its the complete opposite on the front page.

Small sample size in here.

National polls have shown that most fans blame either the players, or both sides equally:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2011/07/david-stern-derek-fisher-billy-hunter-kobe-bryant-lebron-james-eye-opener-who-are-you-blaming-for-the-nba-lockout/1

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPollResultsState?sportIndex=pollindex&pollId=127055

[Interceptor]

It might also be self-selection bias... forum-goers are the hardest of the hardcore. I personally think that the owner's position looks more reasonable to a casual follower of the lockout than it does to someone who digs into the details, i.e. the folks who would tend to vote in this thread's poll in the first place.

[thirstyboots18]

It might also be self-selection bias... forum-goers are the hardest of the hardcore. I personally think that the owner's position looks more reasonable to a casual follower of the lockout than it does to someone who digs into the details, i.e. the folks who would tend to vote in this thread's poll in the first place.

   WHAT???

[indeedproceed]

It might also be self-selection bias... forum-goers are the hardest of the hardcore. I personally think that the owner's position looks more reasonable to a casual follower of the lockout than it does to someone who digs into the details, i.e. the folks who would tend to vote in this thread's poll in the first place.

   WHAT???

I think its a self-selection thing as well, but for different reasons. In both Roy's polls, there was nothing guaranteeing that there were actual fans voting. They were just people who saw the poll. Hardcore fans of the NBA I think are more likely to sympathize with the players, because they follow them every night.

Not to say all hardcore fans (so if you think that you're a hardcore fan and you don't sympathize with the players, and conclude that I am telling you that you're really not that big a fan, I'm not.) sympathize with players, just a majority.

[thirstyboots18]

Stupidity knows no bounds...financial, logical, ethical...there is plenty of blame to go around, but blame doesn't solve problems...it just aggravates the situation until people hang themselves with their own egos and refuse to consider or trust any solution that they did not think up themselves. 

[Roy H.]

It might also be self-selection bias... forum-goers are the hardest of the hardcore. I personally think that the owner's position looks more reasonable to a casual follower of the lockout than it does to someone who digs into the details, i.e. the folks who would tend to vote in this thread's poll in the first place.

  WHAT???

I think its a self-selection thing as well, but for different reasons. In both Roy's polls, there was nothing guaranteeing that there were actual fans voting. They were just people who saw the poll. Hardcore fans of the NBA I think are more likely to sympathize with the players, because they follow them every night.

Not to say all hardcore fans (so if you think that you're a hardcore fan and you don't sympathize with the players, and conclude that I am telling you that you're really not that big a fan, I'm not.) sympathize with players, just a majority.

Well, what about the fans who are still coming to the CelticsBlog front page every day?  Are they not hardcore fans?  I'd say that any fan who is regularly visiting a basketball blog at this stage extend far, far beyond casual.  I have a hard time saying that the opinion of 42 CelticsBlog forum members is more representative of hardcore Celtics fans than the opinion of 800 of them on the front page.

My theory:  I think people are going to interpret poll results in a way that is most reflective of their preferred opinion.

[indeedproceed]

It might also be self-selection bias... forum-goers are the hardest of the hardcore. I personally think that the owner's position looks more reasonable to a casual follower of the lockout than it does to someone who digs into the details, i.e. the folks who would tend to vote in this thread's poll in the first place.

   WHAT???

I think its a self-selection thing as well, but for different reasons. In both Roy's polls, there was nothing guaranteeing that there were actual fans voting. They were just people who saw the poll. Hardcore fans of the NBA I think are more likely to sympathize with the players, because they follow them every night.

Not to say all hardcore fans (so if you think that you're a hardcore fan and you don't sympathize with the players, and conclude that I am telling you that you're really not that big a fan, I'm not.) sympathize with players, just a majority.

Well, what about the fans who are still coming to the CelticsBlog front page every day?  Are they not hardcore fans?  I'd say that any fan who is regularly visiting a basketball blog at this stage extend far, far beyond casual.  I have a hard time saying that the opinion of 42 CelticsBlog forum members is more representative of hardcore Celtics fans than the opinion of 800 of them on the front page.

My theory:  I think people are going to interpret poll results in a way that is most reflective of their preferred opinion.

Ha, I just went back and re-read the whole page of the thread. Yeah, I mentally half arsed my response and lookee what happened.

[LB3533]

I herby decree that all future small market title winners receive an asterix next to their rings.

There is a constant battle within each side.

Within the players' side, the mid-class want to earn their pay checks while the superstars want to dictate where they can play.

Owners side have to deal with small markets crying to large markets. Small markets want to handcuff large markets so the small markets can "compete".

Small markets are most likely going to get more of the profits from the large markets through revenue sharing, but they also want to hold the power to keep their players on a leash.

So if it were not for greed, when a small market team wins a title in the future, they won it because of a handicap.

Eh...  Should we also put an asterisk next to every recent Super Bowl title, or many of the World Series titles? 

I have absolutely no issue with revenue sharing in sports.  It keeps the league strong nationwide, which increases money for everybody.

No asterix needed for the NFL, they have the biggest boot on the players' throat out of every professional sport.

By default, large markets are richer with more people to garner financial influence.

If you keep crying and crying and the system gets changed to handcuff the "given' then that justifies the asterix.

[LB3533]

I herby decree that all future small market title winners receive an asterix next to their rings.

There is a constant battle within each side.

Within the players' side, the mid-class want to earn their pay checks while the superstars want to dictate where they can play.

Owners side have to deal with small markets crying to large markets. Small markets want to handcuff large markets so the small markets can "compete".

Small markets are most likely going to get more of the profits from the large markets through revenue sharing, but they also want to hold the power to keep their players on a leash.

So if it were not for greed, when a small market team wins a title in the future, they won it because of a handicap.

So lets put an astersk next to every title from a big market team won prior to this lockout, since they won in a system that greatly favored them.

This "system that greatly favored them" is life.

That's life dude.

[Interceptor]

Well, what about the fans who are still coming to the CelticsBlog front page every day?  Are they not hardcore fans?  I'd say that any fan who is regularly visiting a basketball blog at this stage extend far, far beyond casual.  I have a hard time saying that the opinion of 42 CelticsBlog forum members is more representative of hardcore Celtics fans than the opinion of 800 of them on the front page.

There are:

- casual fans, the sweet candy shell. These people might not know the difference between Daniel Stern and David Stern, and 50/50 sounds completely fair to them. Will probably not change the channel if the game is on.
- avid fans, the chocolate filling. Homepage is ESPN, follow the drama in general way. May have a fantasy team of some kind in some sport.
- hardcore fans, the caramel middle. Drive by the CB front page, for daily updates on wailing and gnashing of teeth re: the lockout, may post comments. Probably knows at least one player's FG% by heart, and has a favorite Larry Bird anecdote.
- hardest of the hardcore, the peanut in the center. Posts on forums, exerts own gravitational force. May be reading the 10th page of the Blame thread, and was about to reply to this post before I broke the fourth wall just now. Chance of not having an opinion on the lockout, is infinitely close to zero percent.

Disclaimer: I made all of that up.

My theory:  I think people are going to interpret poll results in a way that is most reflective of their preferred opinion.

Indeed.