CBA Judgment Day Thread

[nickagneta]

I don't see decertification as a magic bullet. The only thing it's going to do is throw things into the court system, cost millions in attorneys fees, and take months and months to resolve.

I agree with this somewhat. Yes, it throws everything into the courts and yes, it might ultimately not help get the players the system they want. However, it complete stops the owners from getting what they want as the draft is now done, no salary cap can be instituted, all current contracts could be void, and the union does not exist so there is no one to negotiate with. Also, all anti-trust exemptions the league had disappears and opens them up to lawsuits from the players.

On the other hand the union can't reform for a year unless given permission from the owners, depending on the type of decertification the union decides upon. If its a real decertification with an actual vote, that means the rank and file, or most of the players not making the big bucks, are for a tough stand against the system remaining to their favor and this could ultimately mean new representatives negotiating for both sides. In other words Hunter and Stern's ousters.

[nickagneta]

what kind of drawback do the players have for de-certifying?

Well, the owners are claiming that decertifying would nullify all current contracts...and I believe that they are still waiting on a ruling from a judge on that, not sure though.

As for the problem, I think Fisher summed it up:

Fisher: "This is not just about dollars and cents for players. It's about a system for our guys to operate under."

Players don't want the cap to be any harder than it is now.

wow, if that's the case, de-certifying would be a big sacrifice for the players

Right, and if there is even a remote chance that could happen, they will not even consider decertification.

Right now though, I think it is a waiting game to see what happens with the lawsuits that the two sides filed a couple months ago.

I agree once the NLRB makes their rulings, that's when the union and agents will know whether they still have the decertification "ace in the hole" option available to them. If they don't, I expect this to settle quickly.

[hpantazo]

what kind of drawback do the players have for de-certifying?

Well, the owners are claiming that decertifying would nullify all current contracts...and I believe that they are still waiting on a ruling from a judge on that, not sure though.

As for the problem, I think Fisher summed it up:

Fisher: "This is not just about dollars and cents for players. It's about a system for our guys to operate under."

Players don't want the cap to be any harder than it is now.

wow, if that's the case, de-certifying would be a big sacrifice for the players

Right, and if there is even a remote chance that could happen, they will not even consider decertification.

Right now though, I think it is a waiting game to see what happens with the lawsuits that the two sides filed a couple months ago.

I agree once the NLRB makes their rulings, that's when the union and agents will know whether they still have the decertification "ace in the hole" option available to them. If they don't, I expect this to settle quickly.

If the lawsuits were filed over a month ago, when is the ruling expected?

[Chris]

Interestingly, Hunter has been claiming that the league could still play an entire season, if they reach a deal in the next 2 weeks.  Obviously, that is not his call, and he is not the one that has to reschedule these games, but it is the first optimistic thing I have heard tonight.

...of course, if the players aren't planning on giving in on the harder cap, its a moot point, because I don't think the owners are backing down on that.

[action781]

I have a ton in my head I'd love to contribute to this conversation...  But all I care to say right now is "this sucks".

This is pretty depressing.

[Adelaide Celt]

Well it's done. The season is tainted like only one other before it. I'm not a fan of the NFL but I'm glad it's America's most popular sports league because the NBA doesn't deserve it.

[Interceptor]

1. What other expenses?
2. The figures they're presenting state they're losing money. That game revenue (amongst other things) is being divided up and costing them money.
3. Again, PR has a lot to do with this. I thought I laid things out pretty well before.

1) Stuff that doesn't go away just because they aren't paying salaries of players. Pay for people who aren't players, interest on debt, offices, rent/utilities, legal expenses, etc.
2) I believe that they are losing money, even considering their crybaby billionaire monkey math. They will probably lose more with no season.
3) It has nothing to do with anything. Neither side can use the court of public opinion to their advantage in negotiations. All that they can do is poison the well for everyone, which is why you see such muted comments from people.

[hpantazo]

so how soon before we hear that Kobe signs to play in Italy, 1-2 days from now? Tomorrow?

[PosImpos]

Whether the players like it or not, they just turned down the best offer they will ever see from the owners.  

Yep, now it's just a question of how long it will take for the players to realize that and give in.  This has been the players' game to lose all along.



Better start playing out your own seasons on Xbox, guys.  Guess we're all gonna have to get by on college bball

[houseonfire09]

This sucks.  If the players decide to decertify and this thing goes to the courts, does that mean that there is no way there will be a season?

[mkogav]

sigh......

[StartOrien]

I just don't know the players are thinking really. They've no leverage, and they're not going to gain any over time.

[Chris]

I just don't know the players are thinking really. They've no leverage, and they're not going to gain any over time.

They are thinking like athletes who have had 1 thing drilled into their heads their entire life...win.  The idea of settling for the best you can against someone you just can't beat is just something that doesn't register to them.  They have been taught their entire life that they can beat anyone if they stick to it, and now they are seeing if they can take that mentality into the boardroom to take down Goliath. 

Unfortunately I really think their best hope right now is a moral victory.  If they can cause the owners to miss a few games, prove the point that they cannot be broken, and still get the same deal that was offered today (or something comparable), then they can walk away with their heads held high.

I will say one thing.  I think Stern has done a pretty weak job over the last two weeks.  I think he has painted the players into the corner with his very public pronouncements and deadlines.  He has made it nearly impossible for the players to accept a deal before his "deadline", and still save face.  Considering how proud these players are, that really killed things. 

Now, I can't say that it would have changed anything, but I think there would have been a better chance of the players accepting a deal today, if Stern had played it a little differently, and allowed the players to accept a deal that the owners wanted, while still saving face themselves. 

Now, their only way of "winning" was to call his bluff and hold strong through his deadline, and probably past November 15 (first checks), not to get anywhere in the negotiations, but to feel like they weren't simply played by Stern and the owners.

[StartOrien]

Excellent points Chris, particularly regarding Stern not giving them an out.

[barefacedmonk]