CBA Judgment Day Thread

[StartOrien]

Zach Lowe just tweeted this:

Source close to talks tells SI.com luxury tax structure is main system issue holding up a deal.

BRI solved? Or just close enough?

[StartOrien]

Ira Winderman:

Just got off the phone with an agent who said, "It's all going to get done today." That's what he says, not what me says.

[fairweatherfan]

Zach Lowe just tweeted this:

Source close to talks tells SI.com luxury tax structure is main system issue holding up a deal.

BRI solved? Or just close enough?

Ira Winderman:

Just got off the phone with an agent who said, "It's all going to get done today." That's what he says, not what me says.

Fingers crossed on both of these.  The two sides seem to be very motivated to not lose games, although whether that'll translate into the middle ground they need is a tossup.

[mkogav]

Zach Lowe just tweeted this:

Source close to talks tells SI.com luxury tax structure is main system issue holding up a deal.

BRI solved? Or just close enough?

Reports are that BRI was not discussed last night. I am guessing that once these other issues are resolved, the BRI will be in focus. BRI is effected by the luxury tax structure and other things, making BRI discussions without the other issues settled pointless to some degree.

Mk

[StartOrien]

It's funny, I've been fairly neutral during the duration of the labor talks, but
if a deal doesn't get done today, I'll just hate both sides equally for being stubborn.

[greenpride32]

I'm surprised to hear some are saying they think a deal will be reached today.  Fisher was quoted after last night's meeting saying "not much progress was made" or something along those lines.  I would imagine both sides are not budging on the BRI split.

The more and more I think about it, why should the players, who are employees of the owners, get more than 50%?  It was 50% in the early 1990's and has been creeping up with every new CBA since.  Assuming that league revenue grows, the amount the players receive grows with it, even with a static BRI percentage.  But by raisng the BRI % in addition to growing revenues gives the players a double benefit. 

[fairweatherfan]

The more and more I think about it, why should the players, who are employees of the owners, get more than 50%?  It was 50% in the early 1990's and has been creeping up with every new CBA since. 

I haven't heard this before - got a source?  I was under the impression 57% had been around for a while.  It would surprise me if the 98 lockout had led to an increase in player BRI.

[StartOrien]

I'm surprised to hear some are saying they think a deal will be reached today.  Fisher was quoted after last night's meeting saying "not much progress was made" or something along those lines.  I would imagine both sides are not budging on the BRI split.

The more and more I think about it, why should the players, who are employees of the owners, get more than 50%?  It was 50% in the early 1990's and has been creeping up with every new CBA since.  Assuming that league revenue grows, the amount the players receive grows with it, even with a static BRI percentage.  But by raisng the BRI % in addition to growing revenues gives the players a double benefit. 

The difference between the two financially seems to be less than the amount that they stand to lose by missing two weeks of the season.

[The Walker Wiggle]

Here's Ken Berger's thoughts on why negotiations have returned to the luxury tax.

For one, small-market owners may have dug in hard on the BRI split, insisting they cannot accept a deal in which the teams receive less than 50 percent of revenues without substantially addressing system issues they believe put them at a competitive disadvantage compared to high-revenue, big-spending teams. Second, to the extent that the division of revenues is inexorably linked to the system that determines how the players’ share is delivered, the players could find themselves in a quid-pro-quo position: If they want the system mostly intact, then 50 percent is the best offer they’re going to see. For room to exist for further negotiation on the split, the owners need system adjustments they believe will enhance competitive balance and give teams the flexibility they need to get out from under bad contracts and keep star players from bolting for bigger markets.

All of these moving parts must somehow be tied together Monday – or realistically, by Friday, as long as enough progress and momentum exist.

And according to SI some tax alternatives that were pitched include limiting the number of seasons a team could exceed the tax, and various punitive measures including the forfeiture of a team's mid-level exception or first round pick.

[Jeff]

see, I still don't necessarily buy the Monday deadline - "if they make enough progress" I think they'll extend it for an indefinite amount of time - though probably not more than a week

[bdm860]

The more and more I think about it, why should the players, who are employees of the owners, get more than 50%?  It was 50% in the early 1990's and has been creeping up with every new CBA since.  

Actually I don't know if this changes your opinion at all, but I don't believe the players are actually employees, I believe they're considered independent contractors.  Just like I (as well as the IRS) don't consider the band/singer/rapper an employee of their record label.  Same thing with athletes.  

As independent contractors they have the right to choose the terms to which they will work.  If I hire a plumber (usually also an independent contractor), they have the right to quote me a price they'll work for, and I have the right to negotiate that price more to my liking.

I don't know about you, but it changes my expectations of things.  I do think the players have the right to demand a larger percentage.  But maybe it's just semantics (cuz I also think any employee has the right to decide the terms to which they'll work).


EDIT - according to the state of California I'm wrong.  Athletes for team sports (baseball, basketball, football, etc.) are considered employees, for individual sports (gold, tennis, boxing, etc.) they're considered independent contractors.   http://www.edd.ca.gov/uibdg/Total_and_Partial_Unemployment_TPU_4154.htm

[StartOrien]

see, I still don't necessarily buy the Monday deadline - "if they make enough progress" I think they'll extend it for an indefinite amount of time - though probably not more than a week

Has anyone stated that enough progress would mean there wouldn't be cancellations today, or is that just speculation / logic?

[The Walker Wiggle]

see, I still don't necessarily buy the Monday deadline - "if they make enough progress" I think they'll extend it for an indefinite amount of time - though probably not more than a week

Has anyone stated that enough progress would mean there wouldn't be cancellations today, or is that just speculation / logic?

I believe Berger is just speculating, although his reportage throughout negotiations has been first rate. For what it's worth here is his not-exactly-likest scenario for Monday:

The two sides emerge, say nothing again, and announce that they’re going to continue meeting. A short time later, the first two weeks of the regular season are postponed, rather than canceled, with the possibility that the games could be squeezed in or the season compressed if a deal is reached by Friday.

[Jeff]

see, I still don't necessarily buy the Monday deadline - "if they make enough progress" I think they'll extend it for an indefinite amount of time - though probably not more than a week

Has anyone stated that enough progress would mean there wouldn't be cancellations today, or is that just speculation / logic?

I think it is just speculation but the deadline was imposed by Stern, not some systemic thing.  He has the power to extend it and the players will probably wait till the last minute to test his resolve.

[StartOrien]

At the same time, I'm sure a lot of these arenas want to know what's going on so they can start looking into rebooking.

Though I suppose anything they're going to bring in on short notice would make fractions of what they'd stand to make w/ an NBA game.