Some interesting notes on Rondos jumpshooting from ESPN

[PosImpos]

does he realy need to develop a 3point game though? I think a decent midrange game/higher free throw% would do wonders. especially free throws.

his jumpshooting is still a SLOW work in progress, but you have to admit Roy he did improve on his long 2's last year. with a higher sample size, shows hes becoming more confident with it. hed likely shoot a lower % if he took the same amt of jumpers in 09. and his form looks alot more fluid than it did in 09/10

either way, im confident that Rondo will be better next year and will continue to improve on his jump shot as long as he continues to work on it

He improved on his long twos from the year before, but didn't really improve from 2008 and 2009.

2008:  43%; 2.7 attempts (16-23 foot jumpers)
2009:  40%; 1.9 attempts (16-23 foot jumpers)
2010:  33%; 2.3 attempts (16-23 foot jumpers)
2011:  41%; 3.3 attempts (16-23 foot jumpers)

I see last year as a bounce back from a very poor 2010, but don't necessarily see it as part of a steady progression.

Here's his other performances:

2008:  43%; 1.6 attempts (3-9 foot jumpers)
2009:  40%; 1.3 attempts (3-9 foot jumpers)
2010:  50.4%; 1.7 attempts (3-9 foot jumpers)
2011:  27.6%; 1.1 attempts (3-9 foot jumpers)

2008:  45%; 0.7 attempts (10-15 foot jumpers)
2009:  35%; 0.6 attempts (10-15 foot jumpers)
2010:  46.9%; 0.8 attempts (10-15 foot jumpers)
2011:  31.5%; 0.5 attempts (10-15 foot jumpers)

2008:  26.3%; 0.2 attempts (three pointers)
2009:  31.3%; 0.6 attempts (three pointers)
2010:  21.3%; 1.0 attempts (three pointers)
2011:  23.3%; 0.6 attempts (three pointers)

2008:  61.1%; 2.3 attempts (free throws)
2009:  64.2%; 3.4 attempts (free throws)
2010:  62.1%; 3.5 attempts (free throws)
2011:  56.8%; 1.9 attempts (free throws)

I don't see how anybody can argue that Rondo made any real progress in any of the above categories; almost uniformly, he's actually regressed from where he was two and three seasons ago.

As for three point shooting, he doesn't *have* to add that to his game (Andre Miller has had a successful career without being able to shoot from deep), but it sure would make his game stronger.

His free throws are most important, though, and we didn't see anything encouraging in that regard last year.  Not only did his percentage did, but his attempts were cut in half, indicative of his reluctance to drive inside relative to the past two seasons.

Rondo doesn't have to add long range shooting to his repertoire in order to have a successful career (a la Andre Miller).  However, how many small point guards that thrive as a result of their speed, agility, reflexes, and athleticism have been able to play at a high level past their late 20's without developing a long range shot?

The only point guards in the NBA playing at a high level past their early 30's are Billups, Kidd, and Nash, guys whose shooting has gotten better and better as they've aged (Kidd may be a stretch for "high level").  It's worth noting that all those guys (including Miller) are significantly bigger than Rondo, and thus don't take the same kind of physical beating.

The closest active-player comparison I can draw to Rondo is Tony Parker, and he's already started to slow down before his 30th birthday.

[Galeto]

The thing that makes the percentages worse for me is that he's usually WIDE OPEN on most of them.  Nearly all of the guys who shoot similar percentages as Rondo from the same distance aren't getting all day and invitations to shoot.  Making only 40 percent on such open shots doesn't make the opponent pay enough for leaving him wide open and also keeps them in that strategy.

[mgent]

does he realy need to develop a 3point game though? I think a decent midrange game/higher free throw% would do wonders. especially free throws.

his jumpshooting is still a SLOW work in progress, but you have to admit Roy he did improve on his long 2's last year. with a higher sample size, shows hes becoming more confident with it. hed likely shoot a lower % if he took the same amt of jumpers in 09. and his form looks alot more fluid than it did in 09/10

either way, im confident that Rondo will be better next year and will continue to improve on his jump shot as long as he continues to work on it

He improved on his long twos from the year before, but didn't really improve from 2008 and 2009.

2008:  43%; 2.7 attempts (16-23 foot jumpers)
2009:  40%; 1.9 attempts (16-23 foot jumpers)
2010:  33%; 2.3 attempts (16-23 foot jumpers)
2011:  41%; 3.3 attempts (16-23 foot jumpers)

I see last year as a bounce back from a very poor 2010, but don't necessarily see it as part of a steady progression.

Here's his other performances:

2008:  43%; 1.6 attempts (3-9 foot jumpers)
2009:  40%; 1.3 attempts (3-9 foot jumpers)
2010:  50.4%; 1.7 attempts (3-9 foot jumpers)
2011:  27.6%; 1.1 attempts (3-9 foot jumpers)

2008:  45%; 0.7 attempts (10-15 foot jumpers)
2009:  35%; 0.6 attempts (10-15 foot jumpers)
2010:  46.9%; 0.8 attempts (10-15 foot jumpers)
2011:  31.5%; 0.5 attempts (10-15 foot jumpers)

2008:  26.3%; 0.2 attempts (three pointers)
2009:  31.3%; 0.6 attempts (three pointers)
2010:  21.3%; 1.0 attempts (three pointers)
2011:  23.3%; 0.6 attempts (three pointers)

2008:  61.1%; 2.3 attempts (free throws)
2009:  64.2%; 3.4 attempts (free throws)
2010:  62.1%; 3.5 attempts (free throws)
2011:  56.8%; 1.9 attempts (free throws)

I don't see how anybody can argue that Rondo made any real progress in any of the above categories; almost uniformly, he's actually regressed from where he was two and three seasons ago.

As for three point shooting, he doesn't *have* to add that to his game (Andre Miller has had a successful career without being able to shoot from deep), but it sure would make his game stronger.

His free throws are most important, though, and we didn't see anything encouraging in that regard last year.  Not only did his percentage did, but his attempts were cut in half, indicative of his reluctance to drive inside relative to the past two seasons.

Rondo doesn't have to add long range shooting to his repertoire in order to have a successful career (a la Andre Miller).  However, how many small point guards that thrive as a result of their speed, agility, reflexes, and athleticism have been able to play at a high level past their late 20's without developing a long range shot?

The only point guards in the NBA playing at a high level past their early 30's are Billups, Kidd, and Nash, guys whose shooting has gotten better and better as they've aged (Kidd may be a stretch for "high level").  It's worth noting that all those guys (including Miller) are significantly bigger than Rondo, and thus don't take the same kind of physical beating.

The closest active-player comparison I can draw to Rondo is Tony Parker, and he's already started to slow down before his 30th birthday.

Would anybody complain if Rondo's ceiling is Tony Parker in his prime with much better defense and distribution?  I kinda think he's destined to be that 3rd scoring option, not a 2nd, but able to explode on any given night depending on who's guarding him and how easy he can get to the bucket.  Rondo definitely doesn't need a great jump shot to become a high-quality scorer.  If he can become that, he'll be a very well-rounded player, and an excellent supporting piece to a multiple-championship-winning team.

[greenpride32]

While it's true guys like Pierce, Allen, and Garnett get open jump shots, it's not anywhere near the percentage that Rondo gets.  Let's not forget that these shots happen as a result of a mistake by the other team's defense.  And in many cases it involves a pick or screen, and some movement.  The degree of difficulty is much greater and theses guys are expecting a defender to try and close.  With Rondo once they're in the half-court set he can basically pull up at any time and shoot.  It's a practice jump shot.  Ray Allen would be shooting 80%+ if he was left wide open at 15 feet.

[Celtics18]

While it's true guys like Pierce, Allen, and Garnett get open jump shots, it's not anywhere near the percentage that Rondo gets.  Let's not forget that these shots happen as a result of a mistake by the other team's defense.  And in many cases it involves a pick or screen, and some movement.  The degree of difficulty is much greater and theses guys are expecting a defender to try and close.  With Rondo once they're in the half-court set he can basically pull up at any time and shoot.  It's a practice jump shot.  Ray Allen would be shooting 80%+ if he was left wide open at 15 feet.

When you say that the open jump shots that Garnett, Allen, and Pierce get it is "as a result of a mistake by the other team's defense," remember that these mistakes are more often than not caused by Rondo's ability to drive and create plays, leaving the opposing defense scrambling to rotate and find the open man. 

[ballin]

does he realy need to develop a 3point game though? I think a decent midrange game/higher free throw% would do wonders. especially free throws.

his jumpshooting is still a SLOW work in progress, but you have to admit Roy he did improve on his long 2's last year. with a higher sample size, shows hes becoming more confident with it. hed likely shoot a lower % if he took the same amt of jumpers in 09. and his form looks alot more fluid than it did in 09/10

either way, im confident that Rondo will be better next year and will continue to improve on his jump shot as long as he continues to work on it

He improved on his long twos from the year before, but didn't really improve from 2008 and 2009.

2008:  43%; 2.7 attempts (16-23 foot jumpers)
2009:  40%; 1.9 attempts (16-23 foot jumpers)
2010:  33%; 2.3 attempts (16-23 foot jumpers)
2011:  41%; 3.3 attempts (16-23 foot jumpers)

I see last year as a bounce back from a very poor 2010, but don't necessarily see it as part of a steady progression.

Here's his other performances:

2008:  43%; 1.6 attempts (3-9 foot jumpers)
2009:  40%; 1.3 attempts (3-9 foot jumpers)
2010:  50.4%; 1.7 attempts (3-9 foot jumpers)
2011:  27.6%; 1.1 attempts (3-9 foot jumpers)

2008:  45%; 0.7 attempts (10-15 foot jumpers)
2009:  35%; 0.6 attempts (10-15 foot jumpers)
2010:  46.9%; 0.8 attempts (10-15 foot jumpers)
2011:  31.5%; 0.5 attempts (10-15 foot jumpers)

2008:  26.3%; 0.2 attempts (three pointers)
2009:  31.3%; 0.6 attempts (three pointers)
2010:  21.3%; 1.0 attempts (three pointers)
2011:  23.3%; 0.6 attempts (three pointers)

2008:  61.1%; 2.3 attempts (free throws)
2009:  64.2%; 3.4 attempts (free throws)
2010:  62.1%; 3.5 attempts (free throws)
2011:  56.8%; 1.9 attempts (free throws)

I don't see how anybody can argue that Rondo made any real progress in any of the above categories; almost uniformly, he's actually regressed from where he was two and three seasons ago.

As for three point shooting, he doesn't *have* to add that to his game (Andre Miller has had a successful career without being able to shoot from deep), but it sure would make his game stronger.

His free throws are most important, though, and we didn't see anything encouraging in that regard last year.  Not only did his percentage did, but his attempts were cut in half, indicative of his reluctance to drive inside relative to the past two seasons.

I think I posted this data in another thread awhile ago... it's good stuff.

Basically, my take on it is this: Rondo's shooting hasn't gotten any better and it isn't likely to get better. It's been several years, and nowhere is an upward trajectory to be found. It just seems unrealistic to expect that to happen.

That said, if he attacks the rim and plays like he did in 2009-2010 he's still a phenomenal player. But if doesn't, he's really no use to our team. Hell, part of me is even afraid we've seen the best he can offer.

[PosImpos]

does he realy need to develop a 3point game though? I think a decent midrange game/higher free throw% would do wonders. especially free throws.

his jumpshooting is still a SLOW work in progress, but you have to admit Roy he did improve on his long 2's last year. with a higher sample size, shows hes becoming more confident with it. hed likely shoot a lower % if he took the same amt of jumpers in 09. and his form looks alot more fluid than it did in 09/10

either way, im confident that Rondo will be better next year and will continue to improve on his jump shot as long as he continues to work on it

He improved on his long twos from the year before, but didn't really improve from 2008 and 2009.

2008:  43%; 2.7 attempts (16-23 foot jumpers)
2009:  40%; 1.9 attempts (16-23 foot jumpers)
2010:  33%; 2.3 attempts (16-23 foot jumpers)
2011:  41%; 3.3 attempts (16-23 foot jumpers)

I see last year as a bounce back from a very poor 2010, but don't necessarily see it as part of a steady progression.

Here's his other performances:

2008:  43%; 1.6 attempts (3-9 foot jumpers)
2009:  40%; 1.3 attempts (3-9 foot jumpers)
2010:  50.4%; 1.7 attempts (3-9 foot jumpers)
2011:  27.6%; 1.1 attempts (3-9 foot jumpers)

2008:  45%; 0.7 attempts (10-15 foot jumpers)
2009:  35%; 0.6 attempts (10-15 foot jumpers)
2010:  46.9%; 0.8 attempts (10-15 foot jumpers)
2011:  31.5%; 0.5 attempts (10-15 foot jumpers)

2008:  26.3%; 0.2 attempts (three pointers)
2009:  31.3%; 0.6 attempts (three pointers)
2010:  21.3%; 1.0 attempts (three pointers)
2011:  23.3%; 0.6 attempts (three pointers)

2008:  61.1%; 2.3 attempts (free throws)
2009:  64.2%; 3.4 attempts (free throws)
2010:  62.1%; 3.5 attempts (free throws)
2011:  56.8%; 1.9 attempts (free throws)

I don't see how anybody can argue that Rondo made any real progress in any of the above categories; almost uniformly, he's actually regressed from where he was two and three seasons ago.

As for three point shooting, he doesn't *have* to add that to his game (Andre Miller has had a successful career without being able to shoot from deep), but it sure would make his game stronger.

His free throws are most important, though, and we didn't see anything encouraging in that regard last year.  Not only did his percentage did, but his attempts were cut in half, indicative of his reluctance to drive inside relative to the past two seasons.

Rondo doesn't have to add long range shooting to his repertoire in order to have a successful career (a la Andre Miller).  However, how many small point guards that thrive as a result of their speed, agility, reflexes, and athleticism have been able to play at a high level past their late 20's without developing a long range shot?

The only point guards in the NBA playing at a high level past their early 30's are Billups, Kidd, and Nash, guys whose shooting has gotten better and better as they've aged (Kidd may be a stretch for "high level").  It's worth noting that all those guys (including Miller) are significantly bigger than Rondo, and thus don't take the same kind of physical beating.

The closest active-player comparison I can draw to Rondo is Tony Parker, and he's already started to slow down before his 30th birthday.

Would anybody complain if Rondo's ceiling is Tony Parker in his prime with much better defense and distribution?  I kinda think he's destined to be that 3rd scoring option, not a 2nd, but able to explode on any given night depending on who's guarding him and how easy he can get to the bucket.  Rondo definitely doesn't need a great jump shot to become a high-quality scorer.  If he can become that, he'll be a very well-rounded player, and an excellent supporting piece to a multiple-championship-winning team.

Eh, I think Rondo is already on the same level as Tony Parker.

The concern I was raising, anyway, is that Tony Parker already seems to be declining before his 30th birthday.  I hope Rondo doesn't see a similar early decline, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[Chris]

does he realy need to develop a 3point game though? I think a decent midrange game/higher free throw% would do wonders. especially free throws.

his jumpshooting is still a SLOW work in progress, but you have to admit Roy he did improve on his long 2's last year. with a higher sample size, shows hes becoming more confident with it. hed likely shoot a lower % if he took the same amt of jumpers in 09. and his form looks alot more fluid than it did in 09/10

either way, im confident that Rondo will be better next year and will continue to improve on his jump shot as long as he continues to work on it

He improved on his long twos from the year before, but didn't really improve from 2008 and 2009.

2008:  43%; 2.7 attempts (16-23 foot jumpers)
2009:  40%; 1.9 attempts (16-23 foot jumpers)
2010:  33%; 2.3 attempts (16-23 foot jumpers)
2011:  41%; 3.3 attempts (16-23 foot jumpers)

I see last year as a bounce back from a very poor 2010, but don't necessarily see it as part of a steady progression.

Here's his other performances:

2008:  43%; 1.6 attempts (3-9 foot jumpers)
2009:  40%; 1.3 attempts (3-9 foot jumpers)
2010:  50.4%; 1.7 attempts (3-9 foot jumpers)
2011:  27.6%; 1.1 attempts (3-9 foot jumpers)

2008:  45%; 0.7 attempts (10-15 foot jumpers)
2009:  35%; 0.6 attempts (10-15 foot jumpers)
2010:  46.9%; 0.8 attempts (10-15 foot jumpers)
2011:  31.5%; 0.5 attempts (10-15 foot jumpers)

2008:  26.3%; 0.2 attempts (three pointers)
2009:  31.3%; 0.6 attempts (three pointers)
2010:  21.3%; 1.0 attempts (three pointers)
2011:  23.3%; 0.6 attempts (three pointers)

2008:  61.1%; 2.3 attempts (free throws)
2009:  64.2%; 3.4 attempts (free throws)
2010:  62.1%; 3.5 attempts (free throws)
2011:  56.8%; 1.9 attempts (free throws)

I don't see how anybody can argue that Rondo made any real progress in any of the above categories; almost uniformly, he's actually regressed from where he was two and three seasons ago.

As for three point shooting, he doesn't *have* to add that to his game (Andre Miller has had a successful career without being able to shoot from deep), but it sure would make his game stronger.

His free throws are most important, though, and we didn't see anything encouraging in that regard last year.  Not only did his percentage did, but his attempts were cut in half, indicative of his reluctance to drive inside relative to the past two seasons.

Rondo doesn't have to add long range shooting to his repertoire in order to have a successful career (a la Andre Miller).  However, how many small point guards that thrive as a result of their speed, agility, reflexes, and athleticism have been able to play at a high level past their late 20's without developing a long range shot?

The only point guards in the NBA playing at a high level past their early 30's are Billups, Kidd, and Nash, guys whose shooting has gotten better and better as they've aged (Kidd may be a stretch for "high level").  It's worth noting that all those guys (including Miller) are significantly bigger than Rondo, and thus don't take the same kind of physical beating.

The closest active-player comparison I can draw to Rondo is Tony Parker, and he's already started to slow down before his 30th birthday.

Would anybody complain if Rondo's ceiling is Tony Parker in his prime with much better defense and distribution?  I kinda think he's destined to be that 3rd scoring option, not a 2nd, but able to explode on any given night depending on who's guarding him and how easy he can get to the bucket.  Rondo definitely doesn't need a great jump shot to become a high-quality scorer.  If he can become that, he'll be a very well-rounded player, and an excellent supporting piece to a multiple-championship-winning team.

Eh, I think Rondo is already on the same level as Tony Parker.

The concern I was raising, anyway, is that Tony Parker already seems to be declining before his 30th birthday.  I hope Rondo doesn't see a similar early decline, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I don't think Rondo is anywhere near as good a shooter (or finisher in general) as Parker is...although his other skills do make up for that.

Parker is an interesting case though.  I don't think he has necessarily declined, however, I do think he has been less effective due to injuries, and defenses paying more attention to him as guys like Duncan and Ginobili fade (well, Ginobili it is more injuries, but Duncan has been fading).

This is something that I think we will also see with Rondo.  He is going to have more and more trouble as defenses key on him more, as his teammates become easier to cover.  So, for Rondo to even maintain the same level of production, let alone build on it, he is going to have to continue to improve at a pretty solid rate to stop his effectiveness from dropping considerably as more is asked of him. 

[greenpride32]

When you say that the open jump shots that Garnett, Allen, and Pierce get it is "as a result of a mistake by the other team's defense," remember that these mistakes are more often than not caused by Rondo's ability to drive and create plays, leaving the opposing defense scrambling to rotate and find the open man. 

Yeah and those guys weren't all-stars and Hall of Famers who knew how to score the ball before Rondo ever stepped on an NBA court; oh wait a minute nevermind.

[Celtics18]

When you say that the open jump shots that Garnett, Allen, and Pierce get it is "as a result of a mistake by the other team's defense," remember that these mistakes are more often than not caused by Rondo's ability to drive and create plays, leaving the opposing defense scrambling to rotate and find the open man. 

Yeah and those guys weren't all-stars and Hall of Famers who knew how to score the ball before Rondo ever stepped on an NBA court; oh wait a minute nevermind.

That they were all-stars and hall of famers before playing with Rondo is not the point at all.  The point is that Rondo creates easy scoring opportunities for each of them.

This is one of the main reasons why each of the big three had the highest or close to the highest field goal percentages of his career last season. 

[deekhead]

Rondo is saddled with a world of potential that he may likely never realize because he can't bring it on a regular basis. One night he looks like the Most Valuable Player while the next night he looks like the Least Valuable Player.

I would prefer that  someone like a healthy Delonte lead the team because he can bring what he has, however pedestrian,  every night. We'd be better off in the long run because teammates know exactly  what to expect.

Like a soap opera or high wire act, with Rondo you just never, ever  know how its going to play or turn out.

DH

[greenpride32]

That they were all-stars and hall of famers before playing with Rondo is not the point at all.  The point is that Rondo creates easy scoring opportunities for each of them.

This is one of the main reasons why each of the big three had the highest or close to the highest field goal percentages of his career last season. 

The FG% for Ray, Paul, and KG have all been up notably since the big three formed, not just last year and before Rondo was ever AS caliber.  The reason is they no longer jack up every shot, good or bad.  Ray's FG was actually very good for the Bucks because they had talent around him and were a winning team.  But on the Sonics it dipped because he was taking every shot and boosting his PPG average.

[paulcowens]

All anyone wants to talk about, it seems, is how much Rondo sucks, how much Baby sucks, how much Perkins sucks and, now, how much Green sucks.    Is it possible that we have a coach who sucks at coaching young players?  No, that couldn't be it.  Never.

[Celtics18]

That they were all-stars and hall of famers before playing with Rondo is not the point at all.  The point is that Rondo creates easy scoring opportunities for each of them.

This is one of the main reasons why each of the big three had the highest or close to the highest field goal percentages of his career last season.  

  

The FG% for Ray, Paul, and KG have all been up notably since the big three formed, not just last year and before Rondo was ever AS caliber.  The reason is they no longer jack up every shot, good or bad.  Ray's FG was actually very good for the Bucks because they had talent around him and were a winning team.  But on the Sonics it dipped because he was taking every shot and boosting his PPG average.

I'm not saying that all the credit for the field goal percentages of the big three and the team in general since it was formed should go to Rondo, but I am saying that he should certainly be given his due for his part in the good looks they are all getting from the field as they enter into the twilight of their careers. I honestly don't think there's another point guard in the league who could have handled the role of distributor for those guys as well as Rondo has.

[nickagneta]

All anyone wants to talk about, it seems, is how much Rondo sucks, how much Baby sucks, how much Perkins sucks and, now, how much Green sucks.    Is it possible that we have a coach who sucks at coaching young players?  No, that couldn't be it.  Never.

If you want to start a thread on how bad a coach Doc Rivers is I am sure you will get reaction agreeing with you. Such a thread has happened about a million times since 2007 on this site.

Also, I think being critical about Rondo's shooting is different than saying he sucks. I mean I think deekhead has been about the most anti-Rondo voice and his gripe seems to be about consistency, which I can not fathom, than about overall quality of play.