Some interesting notes on Rondos jumpshooting from ESPN

[BballTim]

The stats show the shots he took, but really the issue is with the shots he doesn't take. The shots he is wide open for but stands there looking for an assist.

  He takes about as many of those long twos as the average pg. If he takes them every time he's open, he'll take 20 or so a game instead of three and the offense will go right down the toilet. It's one thing to keep the defense honest, it's another to make taking the shots the defense wants you to take a large part of your offense.

But he doesn't keep the defense honest. So he needs to shoot more and with more accuracy.

  He'd need to shoot them with much more accuracy, probably to the point where he was somewhat above the league average. As for keeping the defense honest, that would take a ton of shots. If Rondo's defender stays close to him on the perimeter then the defense would have to protect the lane in case he gets past the guy guarding him since he's a good finisher. That means leaving Paul or Ray or KG to help on Rondo.

  Would you rather leave Rondo alone on the perimeter, or one of PP/KG/RA? And, if you choose Rondo, how many shots would he have to take to make you change your mind?

[CaptainJackLee]

He needs to shoot with enough accuracy that his individual defender starts guarding him in the same way they guard, I don't know, Tony Parker or someone like that.

Yeah, I agree that for the other team it'd make defending dribble-penetration from Rondo much more difficult and would put a lot of pressure on the defense - the Celtics offense would be formidable, I think. Very possibly a top-3 in the league, I think - not the 19th best like last season, or 15th best like the year before.

[BballTim]

He needs to shoot with enough accuracy that his individual defender starts guarding him in the same way they guard, I don't know, Tony Parker or someone like that.

Yeah, I agree that for the other team it'd make defending dribble-penetration from Rondo much more difficult and would put a lot of pressure on the defense - the Celtics offense would be formidable, I think. Very possibly a top-3 in the league, I think - not the 19th best like last season, or 15th best like the year before.

  They'll never be top 3 (or close to it) unless they make big strides in offensive rebounding. They were a top 3 team for most of the year in terms of scoring efficiency. Turnovers don't help the cause either, fwiw.

[ballin]

Here's the real issue:

Ballin's Law of NBA Improvement

"A player shall not play at a level significantly above what they have thus demonstrated in their first four years as a player in the NBA."


Go to basketball-reference.com and check out the stats, and tell me if I'm wrong. Some notes:

1. Those that are high on Rondo Jeff Green had best observe this rule.
2. Ballin's Law applies to FT% as well as everything else.
3. Steve Nash isn't human, so this doesn't apply to him.

[BballTim]

Here's the real issue:

Ballin's Law of NBA Improvement

"A player shall not play at a level significantly above what they have thus demonstrated in their first four years as a player in the NBA."


Go to basketball-reference.com and check out the stats, and tell me if I'm wrong. Some notes:

1. Those that are high on Rondo Jeff Green had best observe this rule.
2. Ballin's Law applies to FT% as well as everything else.
3. Steve Nash isn't human, so this doesn't apply to him.

  Aside from Nash (and, technically, canadians are considered humans), start with JO and Billups. I'll find more if I get bored. It's probably easier to do with free throws, btw.

[bfrombleacher]

Here's the real issue:

Ballin's Law of NBA Improvement

"A player shall not play at a level significantly above what they have thus demonstrated in their first four years as a player in the NBA."


Go to basketball-reference.com and check out the stats, and tell me if I'm wrong. Some notes:

1. Those that are high on Rondo Jeff Green had best observe this rule.
2. Ballin's Law applies to FT% as well as everything else.
3. Steve Nash isn't human, so this doesn't apply to him.

There's stuff you can teach and stuff you can't teach. Athleticism, (to some extent) court vision, strength among other things can't really be taught.

A reliable jumper, which is what both of them need, and a post game, which Jeff Green needs, is definitely teachable.

[deekhead]

Here's the real issue:

Ballin's Law of NBA Improvement

"A player shall not play at a level significantly above what they have thus demonstrated in their first four years as a player in the NBA."


Go to basketball-reference.com and check out the stats, and tell me if I'm wrong. Some notes:

1. Those that are high on Rondo Jeff Green had best observe this rule.
2. Ballin's Law applies to FT% as well as everything else.
3. Steve Nash isn't human, so this doesn't apply to him.

There's stuff you can teach and stuff you can't teach. Athleticism, (to some extent) court vision, strength among other things can't really be taught.

A reliable jumper, which is what both of them need, and a post game, which Jeff Green needs, is definitely teachable.

Rondo has had some of the very best teachers available to him for the past 4 years. No question.

If it could have been taught, it would have been taught.

One gets the feeling that the problem is on the learning end, not the teaching end.

DH

[BballTim]

Rondo has had some of the very best teachers available to him for the past 4 years. No question.

If it could have been taught, it would have been taught.

One gets the feeling that the problem is on the learning end, not the teaching end.

DH

  What about the multitude of players that became better shooters as they aged? Did they all overcome problems on the "learning end"?

[CelticG1]

If Rondo has another par year of shooting for himself this next year are we going to be going through the same arguments?

If he shoots 65% from the free throw line are people going to really consider that an improvement worth noting?

Rondo has set the bar so low with his shooting it's ridiculous.

He is an incredible player but he has to work so much harder than  others due to his shortcomings.

I find it impossible that he can keep up an elite level of play for an entire season with the big 3 let alone without them

[BballTim]

If Rondo has another par year of shooting for himself this next year are we going to be going through the same arguments?

If he shoots 65% from the free throw line are people going to really consider that an improvement worth noting?

Rondo has set the bar so low with his shooting it's ridiculous.

He is an incredible player but he has to work so much harder than  others due to his shortcomings.

  I don't think he needs to work harder than others due to his shortcomings because he has skills that compensate for them.

[GreenEnvy]

Here's the real issue:

Ballin's Law of NBA Improvement

"A player shall not play at a level significantly above what they have thus demonstrated in their first four years as a player in the NBA."


Go to basketball-reference.com and check out the stats, and tell me if I'm wrong. Some notes:

1. Those that are high on Rondo Jeff Green had best observe this rule.
2. Ballin's Law applies to FT% as well as everything else.
3. Steve Nash isn't human, so this doesn't apply to him.

There's stuff you can teach and stuff you can't teach. Athleticism, (to some extent) court vision, strength among other things can't really be taught.

A reliable jumper, which is what both of them need, and a post game, which Jeff Green needs, is definitely teachable.

Eh. I think you can get more athletic (while still in your prime) and stronger. Can Eddie Curry become Ben Wallace (c. 2004)? Doubtful. Can Durant turn his body into LeBron's? Not if you gave him a decade. But hard work, especially in the offseason, can make a player faster and stronger while more agile with better endurance. Court vision is one of the harder things to obtain if you don't possess it by the time you the NBA.

Jason Kidd is the notorious example of a poor shooter becoming respectable enough to open up the rest of his game. Is he a knock-down shooter? No, but he can keep you honest. The Mavs purposely let Rondo take a potential game-winning three last season. Teams (and the President, apparently) know he can't shoot, and now 5 years into his NBA career, little has changed. Is he better than he was as a rookie? Not significantly. In past seasons, our offense could overcome that because we had players who could score on their own. Now with the Big Three aging, Pierce is the only reliable option, and even he can only do so in spurts. He can carry the team to a W on any given night, but can he still go shot-for-shot with LeBron over 7 games? Not by himself.

Granted, this is the only true flaw to his game, but let's be real, it's an extremely important aspect of the game. From what I recall, he's worked diligently each summer with shooting coaches, most notably Mark Price. His form is still poor and has too slow of a release. Jumpers have a lot of variables, so even the best shooters can have good and bad seasons depending on the looks/defense they see throughout the year. But Free Throws are a pretty good indicator of shooting, and he is awful from the line.

If he doesn't make a large stride this season, he likely never will.


As for JG, he has a reliable post game IMO, he just needs to go to it more often, particularly when he is at SF. His jumper is relatively close to reliable, especially from his spots (corner 3's, elbows). He can definitely sure up his weak spots, but I don't exactly cringe when he hoists up a shot like I do with Rondo

[bfrombleacher]

Here's the real issue:

Ballin's Law of NBA Improvement

"A player shall not play at a level significantly above what they have thus demonstrated in their first four years as a player in the NBA."


Go to basketball-reference.com and check out the stats, and tell me if I'm wrong. Some notes:

1. Those that are high on Rondo Jeff Green had best observe this rule.
2. Ballin's Law applies to FT% as well as everything else.
3. Steve Nash isn't human, so this doesn't apply to him.

There's stuff you can teach and stuff you can't teach. Athleticism, (to some extent) court vision, strength among other things can't really be taught.

A reliable jumper, which is what both of them need, and a post game, which Jeff Green needs, is definitely teachable.

Eh. I think you can get more athletic (while still in your prime) and stronger. Can Eddie Curry become Ben Wallace (c. 2004)? Doubtful. Can Durant turn his body into LeBron's? Not if you gave him a decade. But hard work, especially in the offseason, can make a player faster and stronger while more agile with better endurance. Court vision is one of the harder things to obtain if you don't possess it by the time you the NBA.

Jason Kidd is the notorious example of a poor shooter becoming respectable enough to open up the rest of his game. Is he a knock-down shooter? No, but he can keep you honest. The Mavs purposely let Rondo take a potential game-winning three last season. Teams (and the President, apparently) know he can't shoot, and now 5 years into his NBA career, little has changed. Is he better than he was as a rookie? Not significantly. In past seasons, our offense could overcome that because we had players who could score on their own. Now with the Big Three aging, Pierce is the only reliable option, and even he can only do so in spurts. He can carry the team to a W on any given night, but can he still go shot-for-shot with LeBron over 7 games? Not by himself.

Granted, this is the only true flaw to his game, but let's be real, it's an extremely important aspect of the game. From what I recall, he's worked diligently each summer with shooting coaches, most notably Mark Price. His form is still poor and has too slow of a release. Jumpers have a lot of variables, so even the best shooters can have good and bad seasons depending on the looks/defense they see throughout the year. But Free Throws are a pretty good indicator of shooting, and he is awful from the line.

If he doesn't make a large stride this season, he likely never will.


As for JG, he has a reliable post game IMO, he just needs to go to it more often, particularly when he is at SF. His jumper is relatively close to reliable, especially from his spots (corner 3's, elbows). He can definitely sure up his weak spots, but I don't exactly cringe when he hoists up a shot like I do with Rondo

"This season" is fairly arbitrary. I don't follow J-Kidd but I found this (http://www.standard.net/topics/sports/2010/04/20/shooting-star-jason-kidd-still-thriving-after-becoming-force-3-pointers) upon googling. They're saying he started getting a jumper at 34.

Is it because of Rose? (ESPN is not helping with all their hype. Everybody has Rose colored glasses now  )

I've seen Rondo being fairly confident in practice. His shot may not be pretty but it works. Maybe it's the confidence. Maybe if he takes more jumpers and gets more free throws (his attempts per game are stupendously low) the percentage would normalize. He's apparently also fairly stubborn so maybe he just needs to set aside his ego and start really learning. I think it's one of the two or both. No matter what, I think he's capable of getting a jumper.

[deekhead]

"He's apparently also fairly stubborn so maybe he just needs to set aside his ego and start really learning."

Indeed.... but much easier said than done.

I don't have a clue as to how this is accomplished. I don't think that management has any idea either. This seems to be the problem in a nutshell.

I was very optimistic that the TEAM USA experience would motivate Rondo to reassess and round out his game.

I was wrong again.

DH

[BballTim]

I was very optimistic that the TEAM USA experience would motivate Rondo to reassess and round out his game.

I was wrong again.

DH

  He was playing like an MVP candidate before the injuries kicked in. How much more than that were you expecting?

 

[greenpride32]

I was very optimistic that the TEAM USA experience would motivate Rondo to reassess and round out his game.

I was wrong again.

DH

  He was playing like an MVP candidate before the injuries kicked in. How much more than that were you expecting?

 

Sorry but I'm lost here... he was playing like an MVP in the Team USA qualifyiny/friendly games?  But he still would have been cut from the team?