CB DRAFT FINALS THREAD: Sixers Win!!!!!!!

[celticpride07]

i picked the sixers

[Kane3387]

Last year, IP was arguing that Ilyasova and Amundson could neutralize Amare; this year, he's saying that Amare is good enough to almost single-handedly carry his team to a title (over D. Wade, no less, a guy who has carried his team to a title).  Long story short:  don't buy what IP is selling.  He was wrong last year, and he's wrong this year, too

Where was this quote on Wednesday? 

[Roy H.]

But yes,  Amar'e is going to be far too much for DWest and Bogut will eat Varejo alive in the post.

That could be, but my best is that the scoring differential of Wade/Iggy vs. Delfino/Harden greatly exceeds any front court mismatch that exists.  Also, I don't think Bogut will dominate Varejao; head-to-head, Bogut is averaging 10/9 on 42.7% shooting.  Varejao hasn't done much, either, but he's kept Bogut in check.  In fact, 3 of the last 4 times they've met, Varejao has held him to 7 points or less. 

Plus, when the going gets tough, I trust Wade a heck of a lot more than I trust Amare.  If Wade doesn't get hurt in Game 5 last year, there's a good chance the Heat win the title, even with Lebron's disappearing act.

[Kane3387]

What about putting Iggy on Lowry?

I like this strategy a lot. It's similar to what Phil Jackson did with Scottie Pippen on the Bulls. Countless times he put Pippen on the point guards where he smothered and really disrupted the opposing team's offense because they couldn't get into it soon enough.

Thoughts?

Then Wade on Harden and Hinrich on Delfino who just shoots threes.

[Rondo2287]

But yes,  Amar'e is going to be far too much for DWest and Bogut will eat Varejo alive in the post.

That could be, but my best is that the scoring differential of Wade/Iggy vs. Delfino/Harden greatly exceeds any front court mismatch that exists.  Also, I don't think Bogut will dominate Varejao; head-to-head, Bogut is averaging 10/9 on 42.7% shooting.  Varejao hasn't done much, either, but he's kept Bogut in check.  In fact, 3 of the last 4 times they've met, Varejao has held him to 7 points or less. 

Plus, when the going gets tough, I trust Wade a heck of a lot more than I trust Amare.  If Wade doesn't get hurt in Game 5 last year, there's a good chance the Heat win the title, even with Lebron's disappearing act.

Granted if wade keeps up his punk like behavior from last years playoffs he may be suspended or may have had somebody take him out

[Roy H.]

Last year, IP was arguing that Ilyasova and Amundson could neutralize Amare; this year, he's saying that Amare is good enough to almost single-handedly carry his team to a title (over D. Wade, no less, a guy who has carried his team to a title).  Long story short:  don't buy what IP is selling.  He was wrong last year, and he's wrong this year, too

Where was this quote on Wednesday? 

Haha.  I should have pointed you to all the nice quotes he had about Big Al two years ago, when he traded for him as his centerpiece.

[Roy H.]

What about putting Iggy on Lowry?

I like this strategy a lot. It's similar to what Phil Jackson did with Scottie Pippen on the Bulls. Countless times he put Pippen on the point guards where he smothered and really disrupted the opposing team's offense because they couldn't get into it soon enough.

Thoughts?

Then Wade on Harden and Hinrich on Delfino who just shoots threes.

I think that would be a good strategy, especially situationally.  It would totally disrupt Lowry's flow (and, as we all know, Lowry is this year's Ilyasova, a decent player that IP greatly overrates.) 

[KCattheStripe]

But yes,  Amar'e is going to be far too much for DWest and Bogut will eat Varejo alive in the post.

That could be, but my best is that the scoring differential of Wade/Iggy vs. Delfino/Harden greatly exceeds any front court mismatch that exists.  Also, I don't think Bogut will dominate Varejao; head-to-head, Bogut is averaging 10/9 on 42.7% shooting.  Varejao hasn't done much, either, but he's kept Bogut in check.  In fact, 3 of the last 4 times they've met, Varejao has held him to 7 points or less. 

THat's on a Bucks team where you can basically triple team Bogut anytime he gets the ball in the post. You can't do that here.

[Who]

What about putting Iggy on Lowry?

I like this strategy a lot. It's similar to what Phil Jackson did with Scottie Pippen on the Bulls. Countless times he put Pippen on the point guards where he smothered and really disrupted the opposing team's offense because they couldn't get into it soon enough.

Thoughts?

Then Wade on Harden and Hinrich on Delfino who just shoots threes.

I would rather shut down Harden than slow down Lowry.

[Kane3387]

As of now I have Portland, due to the size advantage. I like Bogut deterring Wade more then I did him deterring LBJ last series. I think Amare is too much for West coming off an ACL injury and I don't believe he will be 100% because mentally I haven't seen a player yet who trusted their knee completely after that kind of injuty. It normally takes a second season with no brace to do that.

I see bogut owning Varejao. I think if IP can control the pace by controlling the boards he can win.

I never thought IP's team should have made it this far, but it has and I like this match-up for him. I have said all along I didn't like Philly's front court too. For Portland to have made it this far I am going to assume Williams isn't playing like a rookie because he has no other scorer off the bench. Williams must be putting up points off the bench and if that is the case I think he can give West or Iggy some issues.

Also who has HCA? I understand conference but there are plenty of times in a season where the two best records are out of the same conference. In a format that is 2-3-2, that matters a great deal to me.[/i]

[Kane3387]

Last year, IP was arguing that Ilyasova and Amundson could neutralize Amare; this year, he's saying that Amare is good enough to almost single-handedly carry his team to a title (over D. Wade, no less, a guy who has carried his team to a title).  Long story short:  don't buy what IP is selling.  He was wrong last year, and he's wrong this year, too

Where was this quote on Wednesday? 

Haha.  I should have pointed you to all the nice quotes he had about Big Al two years ago, when he traded for him as his centerpiece.

       

[Roy H.]

What about putting Iggy on Lowry?

I like this strategy a lot. It's similar to what Phil Jackson did with Scottie Pippen on the Bulls. Countless times he put Pippen on the point guards where he smothered and really disrupted the opposing team's offense because they couldn't get into it soon enough.

Thoughts?

Then Wade on Harden and Hinrich on Delfino who just shoots threes.

I would rather shut down Harden than slow down Lowry.

I think the answer is to put Iggy on whichever player is performing the best.  There are going to be games where Harden, Williams, and/or Lowry struggle even without having a great defender on them.  If Harden is cold, for instance, I think having Iggy take the Lowry assignment makes some sense.

I think IP has overrated Harden's current ability a bit.  There were games in last year's playoffs where he was excellent, but there were also plenty of games where he was scoring in single digits and/or shooting under 40%.

[Roy H.]

Also who has HCA? I understand conference but there are plenty of times in a season where the two best records are out of the same conference. In a format that is 2-3-2, that matters a great deal to me

Philly has home court, by virtue of having a lower score in the playoff voting (52 vs. 76)

[Roy H.]

I like Bogut deterring Wade more then I did him deterring LBJ last series

What are you basing this on?  In his career, Wade is averaging 10.3 FTAs per game when Bogut is playing.  He's definitely not deterred from bringing the ball inside, and as we all know, Wade excels on the big stages.

[indeedproceed]

Sigh. Et tu, Roy? Did I run over your cat or something last night? Does mgent have you on retainer?

Here is how I see it:

My first two picks were Amare Stoudemire and ANdrew Bogut.

Amare Stoudemire will match up against David West. Amare had held West to 42% shooting, while he himself had shot better, scored more, and rebounded better. Since Amare and West are both less than ideal defenders, that means not only is Amare the better player, he's the better player at the one thing David West was good at, when he HAD Chris Paul as a pick and roll partner. Now, he's got Wade, Iggy, and Hinrich, none of whom can compare to the benefit Paul gave West. If all David West does is score, he doesn't even do that well against Amare.

My second pick was Andrew Bogut, and I thought this matchup was a homerun for him. But, I looked at the H2H numbers, and I was pretty disappointed. He hadn't shot well, scored well, and the only thing he'd done well against Andersen Varejao is rebound and defend.

But, then I realized my mistake; so I went back and looked at the individual games from 09-10 (the last year that Bogut and Varejao were on active rosters at the same time, Varejao lost all of last season), and lo and behold, Varejao likely wasn't guarding Bogut for any significant time at all. Shaq and Big Z averaged around 35 minutes or so per game, and that's why Bogut had a harder time scoring, and was fouling more.

But there is a third game in 09-10 where Shaq and Big Z didn't play. It was pretty much a blowout by the third, one of those games in March that don't really matter.

But it does matter to us, because Varejao played 25 minutes, almost exclusively at center. They were a crappy 25 minutes too; 4pts, 5fouls, 6rebounds, and 40% shooting.

Meanwhile, unimpeded by Shaq and Big Z, Bogut racked up a tidy 15pts, 9 boards, 3 blocks and 56% shooting in a relative blowout.

I have enormous advantages at both frontcourt positions, and better size, and a better defensive anchor, by a large margin.

mgent's top two players are perimeter players. Wade, a guy I'd be happy to build around, and Andre Igouadla, a guy I wouldn't.

Iggy though has been called 'a poor man's LeBron' for a while now, because he doesn't shoot particularly well, he can pass and defend well for his position, and he's super athletic.

Well, Wade and Lebron went up against a tandem at the 4 and 5 I thought matched up pretty evenly with mine these past Finals. Dirk is better than Amare, because he's a two-way player, but Bogut is better than Chandler, because he's a two-way player. I think as a package both guys kind of equal out.

Then, I've got an advantage at the PG position, as Lowry is in my mind a complete class above Hinrich, and I've got two capable players on the wing in Harden and Delfino.

Interesting facts:

Since Delfino has been in Milwaukee (and paired with Andrew Bogut), when he's guarded Andre Iguodala, Iggy had had the following FG%'s:

1-27-2010: 36,4% shooting
3-24-2010: 40% shooting
4-9-2010: 69% shooting, 9-13..Iggy's 1 good game where he really had an impact
3-12-11: 66% shooting on 4-6...this one was an easy win for Milwaukee, and Iggy's 10pts didn't really have an impact.

Also, in those games, here were the point totals:

Game 1: Delfino 6, Iggy 9
Game 2: Delfino 10, Iggy 14
Game 3: Delfino 23, Iggy 21
Game 4: Delfino 12, Iggy 10

So in their last 4 meetings, I think its pretty fair to say that Iggy has had his moments, but they haven't really been shining examples of dominance.

A last point: Dwyane Wade and Andrew Bogut play in the same conference, so they play each other 3 times a year.

In the past 2 years, Wade has shot better than 50% from the field in a game where Andrew Bogut was the opposing defensive anchor only once. He's shot under 40% from the field against a Bogut-led team in 4 out of a possible 6 games between 2009 and 2011.  

The Sixers don't have the frontcourt to slow me down, and they're relying on athleticism on the wings to do the majority of their defending. I've already seen people vote and I'm asking....Why? Why are you voting for a team with a poor bigs rotation and 1 elite wing player against a team with elite starting bigs and a decent perimeter?

And people say I'm the guy who says outrageous things. If ya made up your mind before I said any of this..so be it, but I think its the wrong choice. LeBron and Wade couldn't overcome the defense of the Mavs, beginning with their elite defensive center.

Now, Amare is no Dirk, but he'll bottle up David West pretty well. And while Delfino doesn't have Marion's size, I think as man to man defenders they're pretty even, and Iggy is a far cry from LeBron's 6'9 270 lbs frame that Delfino JUST BEAT in the conference Finals. On top of that, I've got Lowry who should eat Hinrich right up, and I've got a better elite defensive center.

Blazers Baby. If we made it this far past the West with my inexperience, they're gonna eat the Sixers alive.

But, if you wanna talk about a Finals from 6 years ago, that's something too.